Soon to Make the Jump

[20 Years Gone]

Good Morning,
   Well, it's time to retire from the navy, and I'm getting some conflicting advice.  Unfortunately, I do not have the degree wrapped up, so come out as
1.  ETC
2.  PPWO Qualed
3.  Planner school grad
4.  MTS/Instructor NEC
5.  I&C supervision evperience
   I have a good friend with a similar background who got out 3 years ago, and went to work in New York, and has done very well.  He tells me that the degree isn't that important, and that the average from I&C supervision is around 80K, and I shouldn't have much problem once I reach the interview process.  But, after talking with several recruiters, I've been told that 80K would be like winning the lottery, and my I&C experience will be fine for getting a tech job, but that supervision/management is mostly hired from within.  I would greatly appreciate some feedback from you all, who seem to know the current realities of the industry.
   I've spent enough time lately away from my family, so don't desire to be a traveller, but rather would like to find a company with decent management so I can put down some roots and watch my children gorw up.

   Thanks in advance!! 

[alphadude]

yes thats true about "from within".  however, during your interview make sure you let the HR people know that you want management as soon as possible.

Most I&C techs can make $80k a year with typical overtime offered.  In management however, you have to put in the same overtime just no pay for it!  So its 6 of 1 and half of another.  Got to a system like Duke or TVA. Some of the states that they have plants in are state tax free, and the cost of living is lots lower in the south. (food-rent-etc)

[Chelios]

There are contract I&C services. You might want to work temporary jobs. You'll meet some people, see some things and get some first hand info. Every place is different and they all have their own attitude. Some places you may find that the techs resent an outsider, while other places they may not want a management position and will be amenable to an outsider. Your electronics experience may be more valuable outside the nuclear industry, so don't limit yourself to this dying industry.

[20 Years Gone]

well, that does bring up a whole new subject... Is the nuclear power industry in america a "dying industry"?  I've hear that a lot of the current work force will be ready to retire in the next 3 to 8 years...I have, I figure, between 20 and 25 years left in me, as I'm about to turn 40, and don't want to work beyond 65.  So, again, from you industry insiders... is the nuclear industry dying, or will it begin to expand again at some point?

[Nuclear NASCAR]

Is the industry dying, or is the workforce aging?  With plants getting extensions for another 20 years & most of those extensions coming just after reaching the 20 year in-service mark that leaves possibly another 40 years for many plants. 

For those in the HP (or RP depdending on your preference) end of the industry there's still the D&D part of plant life.  I'd say that without any new plants there's still another 40 to 50 years left in the industry. 

I've strayed far enough off-topic, perhaps I'll start another topic and carry on from here.  If anyone else wants to start that before I get to it I'll just follow the discussion.

Good points to consider for the future 20 Years Gone.  Welcome to the site. 

[Roll Tide]

I have a good friend with a similar background who got out 3 years ago, and went to work in New York, and has done very well.  He tells me that the degree isn't that important, and that the average from I&C supervision is around 80K, and I shouldn't have much problem once I reach the interview process. 

I doubt any nuclear plant would want to hire a retired ETC as a supervisor as their first commercial (or DOE) nuclear job. That sounds harsh, but it's reality.
Get a job doing I&C for an outage or Spring / Fall season of outages. After that, you would be VERY marketable as I&C supervision.

The Navy teaches many things very well, and most companies realize and value that training. The Navy doesn't teach 40 hour work-week management, and liberty isn't the incentive of choice. Many GOOD Chiefs have fallen flat as commercial supervisors because the Navy way isn't possible. Utilizing the Overtime system is a HUGE part of a supervisors' responsibility, and can't be overstated.

The interaction with Radcon is much different than the Navy, so you want to have some experience with Radcon in a Commercial plant prior to supervising others.

Finally, let me say your friend is over-optimistic about initial salary without the degree. I was NPS class 8502 as a MM, so I went in about the same time as you, and got out in 1995. I have had more years over $80K than under since coming to commercial power in 1996 (Radcon and OPS.) You will get there, but probably not your first year.

Finally, thanks for your service. This country wouldn't be the bastion of liberty without courageous warriors willing to sacrifice for us.

[20 Years Gone]

   Well, it may be a little harsh, but I really need the straight dope before I start interviewing, lest I talk myself right out of a good entry job because I have unrealistic expectations. 
   Thank you all for your insight and for taking the time to help.  This is an exciting/scary time of life, and the more I know, the better as I job hunt.  I love this sight!!

[alphadude]

lots of plants hire out of the navy into management.. seen it many times

[GARYGWOODJR]

20_years_gone,

I am also making the jump soon.  Any help I can lend just email me.  (I think I must have looked at every nuclear job site on the web).  If you have already written your resume using the advice given at TAP class you may want to have someone look at it first.  I talked to the chemistry director at Dresden and the first thing he told me was do not try to re-word your military experience in civilian terms.  I spoke with a buddy of mine who is a maintenace supervisor at DC Cook and he told me the same thing.  I think this really only works for the Nuclear Power Industry.  Best of luck with your job search.

Gary

[20 Years Gone]

   I guess the jump is made.  I start at Wolf Creek on June 28th as an I&C Journeyman, and I'm really happy with how things turned out.  I can't thank the members of this site enough for the advice and insite given.  It's funny... All us Navy nukes who've been in a couple years know how the navy nuclear world works cold, but even though the civilian world nukes are like our cousins, your a bit "beyond the veil", so to speak, and the view we get is fuzzy and a bit distorted.  So thanks for slicing thruogh the BS, and helping clear up the picture of house vs road vs different plants vs etc.
   Kansas seems pretty nice so far... Not too many beaches on oceans, but the paople are very friendly, and those I've talked to who work at WCNOC all seem to love it.  Outstanding thunderstorms!!!
   Thanks again

[RCLCPO]

20 Years Gone,

Well, It's been almost a year......how's the I & C life in Kansas?  As I'm retiring myself soon, I'd like to know your perspective after some time on the beach.  Is it still what you thought it would be?

Cheers,

rclcpo

[kwicslvr]

RCLCPO,

Well I didn't do 20, only 12, and got out 2 years ago has a LELT on subs.    I have a chemistry positon, but the experience in the end is the same.  For me it was one of the best decisions I've made leaving the navy and working at a civilian plant.  Granted with out my navy training I would of never had the oppurtunity.  The work is great and the people are awesome for the most part.   The other nice thing is working half as much and being paid twice as much compared to when I was in the Navy and when I do go over 40 hours I actually get paid quite well for it.

Good luck on the search for your new life.

[20 Years Gone]

Well, where to start?
Pro's:
1.  Lots and Lots of Money.  The retirement check makes the mortgage, with money left over.
2.  No duty days, or taking home work with you, or really worrying about the job at all when you're not there.  No fast cruises, or staying up 21/24 hours on shutdown PPWO, then working a normal day the next day on 3 section duty
3.  The schedule is pretty regular.  No sudden at seas, or extended yard periods, or deployments.  I can look ahead months from now and make solid plans, with no worry of something coming up on the ship, and leave being cancelled.
4.  I have a nice house in a nice community, and don't plan on moviing again, so my kids will grow up here with friends they've had for years, instead of the move every 3 years.
5.  We specifically picked where we live based upon the local schools and communities.

Con's:
1.  You know how the navy had a structured training program, where ever you went?  After awhile, you pretty much new that when you reported to a new command, you'd get a qual card and attack it, and get your quals out of the way.  Now, it might be that way at other plants, and maybe in OPS, but in I&C, they seem to have completely forgotten how to get/allow people to get qualified.  That's probably due to the low turnover.  An example:  The last guys they hired in I&C were 5 years ago.  The 4 of them finished their level 2 I&C quals in the last couple months.  They sat around for YEARS while the company tried to re-discover how to get them qualified.  So, I have quals like crimping, soldering... But there's really not a single preventative maintenance item which I can go perform.  And it is a BIG deal here if you perform a maintenance item and aren't qualified.  I carry a lot of guys tools around.
2.  The supervision is a bit different.  Mostly, they are the nicest guys in the world, but, they really don't supervise.  They might tour around the plant every couple of weeks, watch while you calibrate a transmitter, then check that off on their things to do list, and don't think about it until the next time.  They spend their time answering PIR's (process improvement requests) going to meetings... well, hell.  I'm sure they must do something... They run interference for us when we need it, coordinate maintenance a little... The maintenance schedule is planned by another group altogether, though.  Speaking of supervision, there's not a real chain of command.  We have about 5 I&C supervisors, and you sort of get shuffled to whichever one owns your maintenance that day...until someone else needs you, then you work for that supervisor.  It's kind of "just-in-time" supervision.  Very, very, reactive.  They're more like taxi-cab dispatchers, if that makes sense.
3.  Unless you hire in as a supervisor, you might as well have just come out of tech school.  All those abilities you've spent 20 plus years developing, like maintenance expertise, operations, and operatonal interfaces, computer skills, planning skills, procedure writing, QA, troubleshooting....  Well, those skills will not really brought to use, at least right away.

   I've let my fingers run away with me.  Let's sum it up.  I've been here a year.  I'm not qualified to do any preventative maintenace.  The happiest times I've had here is when something has broke, and they allowed me to troubleshoot and fix it.  They want us qualified, but the supervision can't seem to decide how to do it, and do not seem to have the planning abilities to make it happen. 

   It's a little frustrating. 

[Fermi2]

It's always astounded me at how unorganized in general CRaft training seems to be throughout the industry.

I will say before I left Fermi the Instrument shop was really getting their stuff together in order to create qual curves and to be more organized when it came to qualifying people. A big reason is they had an Ex SM in charge of their department who knew how to get things done. (Joe Meyer by the way is the man I admire most in this industry, he was a real role model for me and as mentor)

Hey 20 Years. You're at Wolf Creek right? They have one of the worst SROs in the industry there, I believe he's no longer in Ops though.

Do you know a Mechanic named Frank? He's a tall lanky guy, very dry and sarcastic sense of humor. In 2003 he worked for me at Fermi during our March Refueling Outage. I really liked the guy a lot. He was assigned to the FIRS Team (Fix It Now Team). I don't remember his last name though. Anyways if you can figure out who he is please tell him Mike from Fermi said hello.

Mike