ELT $500/month incentive pay.

[CannonFodder]

Alright, I need help.  I keep hearing about a $500/month incentive for seagoing ELTs E-5 and up.  I have heard that this entitlement is to compensate for our disappearing shore duties, and to compensate for our dwindling numbers.  I have heard this from two group two reps at the NGNN shipyard, and from my old boat, who say that they are not eligible because of their seagoing status.  Is anyone out there getting this incentive, heard anything or know where I can find a message about it.  I would probably dismiss this as something too good to be true, but I have heard from too many sources to not look into it.  Any help would be appreciated, because this incentive might help make the miserable 688 life a little more bearable.

[JustinHEMI05]

I don't know if they changed the rules for pro pay, but even if it is 500 just for SMAGs, I assure you it won't make life more bearable.

Justin

[93-383]

Program sounds kinda like the SDIP program NAVADMIN 162/07

http://www.npc.navy.mil/NR/rdonlyres/309662E0-6888-49A0-9F59-D4B140D2940E/0/NAV07162.txt

however there are no nukes on the list of applicable ratings.

[dav8]

Heard today from a Groton 688 ELT that this is true.  Extra $500 month for seagoing ELT's due to lack of retention.  Don't know the rank or sub/surface requirement, but for E-6 sub ELT's its true.

[NukeNub]

Hmm, an extra 6,000 a year, to stay as an ELT @ sea?

Mind you that I am not top rate yet as an NLO, for I have only been qualified for a few months, but...

1. I grossed over 800 bucks for ONE double day.
2. I grossed over 3,000 for my 2008 AIP for just doing my job.
3. I made an extra 500 bucks for working on MLK day.
4. Another 1000 bucks of built in OT since Jan.

So, since Jan 08, I have received about 5300 bucks extra and only had to work one extra shift.

Hmm, I think I am glad I am no longer an ELT at sea.

Plus, I figure everyone else is going to crap on you cause you're making an extra 500 bucks a month.

[JustinHEMI05]

Couldn't have said it any better myself. Yet again, the Navy thinks throwing some chump change at the problem will fix things, instead of actually addressing why there are no sea going ELTs left. They are probably right in the short term, some chumps will take the bait.

Justin

[Khak-Hater]

I hate to agree with a Khak, but ...

The money, working hours, management structure, assignment choices, sleeping conditions, etc. are all better on the outside.  So, I don't think that anyone is going to reenlist based on this bonus pay.  At least I'd hope that if you're smart enough to be an ELT, then you're smart enough to do the math.

At the same time, life's not necessarily all about this other stuff.  I knew very few dudes in the Navy who originally enlisted to get into the civilian commercial nuke industry and make the big bucks.  A large percentage (e.g., 50%) of the ELTs that I served with didn't even go into the nuclear business when they got out.  It was about serving your country.  Now if they can provide a little more incentive pay to make that service more tolerable, then good for them.  Can they compensate you enough to make the job comperable to a civilian job?  No way, but every little bit helps. 

Enjoy your six grand man, and thanks for serving,

mgm

[JustinHEMI05]

What khak are you agree with?

Justin

[Khak-Hater]

GC took offense at your implying that it was all about the money, but, just like a khak, he probably thought it through and withdrew his post, but in doing so he left me high and dry for agreeing with him.  I knew that there was a reason that I avoided agreeing with khaks.  Brings back old memories.

Anyway, it's not necessarily all about the money, but, regardless of the Navy's motivation, I would've liked a little extra incentive pay while I was in.  It kind of reminds me of a little company that I was working for a few years ago that, having never given out Christmas bonuses, decided to give out a little bonus (e.g., $1,000.00) one year.  Now, it wasn't much, but for the life of me, I had a hard time joining in with everyone else's complaints about getting a little extra cash.  Did it buy my eternal loyalty?  No way.  Did I appreciate it?  Sure I did. 

Every little bit helps,

mgm

[NukeNub]

What is 500 bucks about other than the money? The Nuclear Navy rather throw money at enlistment problems , because money is cheap and easy. What I was illustrating was that a year's worth of Nuclear Navy incentives for an ELT@sea can be matched and exceeded in a rather short time in the commercial world without all the BS.

If there is an ELT out there weighing the options and the man with the paperwork is dangling some extra cash to drive the deal home, then that ELT needs to know that better money is out there and for less hassle.

Honor, Courage, and Commitment is necessary to sign the paperwork, not 500/mo.

[DDMurray]

GC took offense at your implying that it was all about the money, but, just like a khak, he probably thought it through and withdrew his post, but in doing so he left me high and dry for agreeing with him.  I knew that there was a reason that I avoided agreeing with khaks.  Brings back old memories.

Anyway, it's not necessarily all about the money, but, regardless of the Navy's motivation, I would've liked a little extra incentive pay while I was in.  It kind of reminds me of a little company that I was working for a few years ago that, having never given out Christmas bonuses, decided to give out a little bonus (e.g., $1,000.00) one year.  Now, it wasn't much, but for the life of me, I had a hard time joining in with everyone else's complaints about getting a little extra cash.  Did it buy my eternal loyalty?  No way.  Did I appreciate it?  Sure I did. 

Every little bit helps,

mgm

How does the civilian power industry (or any industry for that matter)  help fill gaps in needed skills?

DM

[JustinHEMI05]

GC took offense at your implying that it was all about the money, but, just like a khak, he probably thought it through and withdrew his post, but in doing so he left me high and dry for agreeing with him.  I knew that there was a reason that I avoided agreeing with khaks.  Brings back old memories.

Anyway, it's not necessarily all about the money, but, regardless of the Navy's motivation, I would've liked a little extra incentive pay while I was in.  It kind of reminds me of a little company that I was working for a few years ago that, having never given out Christmas bonuses, decided to give out a little bonus (e.g., $1,000.00) one year.  Now, it wasn't much, but for the life of me, I had a hard time joining in with everyone else's complaints about getting a little extra cash.  Did it buy my eternal loyalty?  No way.  Did I appreciate it?  Sure I did. 

Every little bit helps,

mgm

Thank you for clarifying the missing post.

Justin

[Khak-Hater]

DDMurray,

Please clarify your question.  If you are asking what I think that you're asking, then the answer is:

Good companies (e.g., EOI) grow their people through cross-training and professional development.  Average companies fill the gaps by hiring the personnel who already posses the required expertise.  Short-sited companies hire consultants and staff-aug contractors to fill the gaps.  The Navy really only has the first option, since you'd have to pay a contractor a ridiculous amount of money to serve in a sea-going billet, in addition to the associated morale and moral problems associated with regulars serving side-by-side with mercenaries.

NukeNub,

I'm not sure what you're saying.  I'm saying that I don't know anyone who would've reenlisted for an extra $500.00 per month, but I sure would've appreciated getting it while I was in. 

In general,

Having given this issue some more thought, maybe the extra cash isn't the answer at all to the issue at hand [although it is always appreciated].  Maybe a better answer to getting more ELTs at sea is to open up ELT school to all three rates.  I always thought that it was bogus that some arbitrary decision in boot camp (i.e., your rate assignment) limited you so much for your whole Navy career (e.g., why wasn't I allowed to qualify RO and sit the panel if I had the know how and gumption to master the material).  Maybe the answer is a little more flexibility.  I know that that kind of thinking is hard for the Navy, but it seems like an easy process change to make.  Need more ELTs?  Then open ELT up to more people.

mgm

[Preciousblue1965]

DDMurray,

In general,

Having given this issue some more thought, maybe the extra cash isn't the answer at all to the issue at hand [although it is always appreciated].  Maybe a better answer to getting more ELTs at sea is to open up ELT school to all three rates.  I always thought that it was bogus that some arbitrary decision in boot camp (i.e., your rate assignment) limited you so much for your whole Navy career (e.g., why wasn't I allowed to qualify RO and sit the panel if I had the know how and gumption to master the material).  Maybe the answer is a little more flexibility.  I know that that kind of thinking is hard for the Navy, but it seems like an easy process change to make.  Need more ELTs?  Then open ELT up to more people.

mgm

Interesting concept, but then again the last thing we need is some EM/ET "limp wristing" a valve in the sample sink and having a continuous discharge because they don't have the ability to put forth some realy "mechanic star torque".   

[Marlin]

DDMurray,

Please clarify your question.  If you are asking what I think that you're asking, then the answer is:

Good companies (e.g., EOI) grow their people through cross-training and professional development.  Average companies fill the gaps by hiring the personnel who already posses the required expertise.  Short-sited companies hire consultants and staff-aug contractors to fill the gaps.  The Navy really only has the first option, since you'd have to pay a contractor a ridiculous amount of money to serve in a sea-going billet, in addition to the associated morale and moral problems associated with regulars serving side-by-side with mercenaries.

NukeNub,

I'm not sure what you're saying.  I'm saying that I don't know anyone who would've reenlisted for an extra $500.00 per month, but I sure would've appreciated getting it while I was in. 

In general,

Having given this issue some more thought, maybe the extra cash isn't the answer at all to the issue at hand [although it is always appreciated].  Maybe a better answer to getting more ELTs at sea is to open up ELT school to all three rates.  I always thought that it was bogus that some arbitrary decision in boot camp (i.e., your rate assignment) limited you so much for your whole Navy career (e.g., why wasn't I allowed to qualify RO and sit the panel if I had the know how and gumption to master the material).  Maybe the answer is a little more flexibility.  I know that that kind of thinking is hard for the Navy, but it seems like an easy process change to make.  Need more ELTs?  Then open ELT up to more people.

mgm

This has been done in the past. It did not work out. Perhaps on a Bird Farm where ELTs are primarily just ELTs it may, but in the work division structure on the Boats there are some logistical issues. We had an electrician ELT on one of my boats and his performance was just fine but the Navy runs on chain of command and the additional splitting of an individual over three divisions in responsibility did cause some problems. Don't forget that the original ELTs were Corpsman this changed fairly quickly for some obvious reasons.

[DDMurray]

DDMurray,

Please clarify your question.  If you are asking what I think that you're asking, then the answer is:

Good companies (e.g., EOI) grow their people through cross-training and professional development.  Average companies fill the gaps by hiring the personnel who already posses the required expertise.  Short-sited companies hire consultants and staff-aug contractors to fill the gaps.  The Navy really only has the first option, since you'd have to pay a contractor a ridiculous amount of money to serve in a sea-going billet, in addition to the associated morale and moral problems associated with regulars serving side-by-side with mercenaries.

Let's say I work at Plant X making $70K per year.  My job is hard and the opportunity comes for a less-stressful job with about an $8K pay cut per year.  My company really needs my skills at both jobs, but can easily fill the lower paying jobs.  For a $6K dollar a year raise, I can continue in my current job and, in some cases, gain more supervisory and leadership experience. 

On the same token let's say working at Plant X sucks, but I'm under contract for 16 more months.  I have no desire to stay at Plant X, but I am eligible to rotate to a less stressful and demanding job.  In order to take the lower paying job, I have to add 3 years to my contract and get some good bonus money to do so.   If I decide to finish out my time at Plant X, I'll get $6K to suck it up for another year and do whatever I want after my time is up.  It makes sucking it up a bit more palatable.

My point is that the Navy is doing what a lot of companies do.   The Navy doesn't have the luxury of hiring somebody and keeping them at the same plant to develop them over several years.  In my short time in civilian nuclear power, it appears to me that many plants are scrambling to raise their manning  to sufficient levels to make up for the upcoming losses in experieinced personnel.  Some of them are offering recruitment bonuses in addition to a generous starting salary.  Sounds very similar to what the navy does to help keep people - offer them more money.

[bdhoe]

So I talked to some of smag buddies..(just about done) and..thats it..just about done..(even surface) you can only use and abuse a resource for so long!  500/month..bleh..(I was 4th generation Navy/5th generation military and no more )..

[NukeNub]

Re-reading my initial post, I can see it came off quite pretentious.

What I was trying to illustrate, was that if there was a sub ELT out there considering staying in for the extra money vs. getting out, that it was not worth it compared to what he would make in commercial operations.

If the smag wants to stay in for the honor of serving then the extra bucks is a nice treat for doing a very hard job that most non-elts don't understand enough to appreciate.

[Roll Tide]

You mean in addition to visiting exotic ports like Kings Bay, eating like a king 4 square meals a day, they also want to give those lucky dudes an extra $500 monthly! Sweet! 



OK, I know how many ELTs I worked with that didn't make it past the 6 or 8 year point. I think it is a great idea to show people that their importance is recognized, and money is a great way to show that. Of course, it may start a battle with every other group showing that their rate is also especially hard to man. But as I consider that, I think it would be great for MM/ET/EM to get some extra $$$ as well.

The extra $$$ from the Navy will never make up for the extra hours worked in the Navy, but at least we can show these most valuable people that they are valuable.

[cthizzle]

so, does that mean that an ELT cannot take shore duty, or does it mean that we just don't get any extra money if we do?

[Dragon_Yoon]

I too have heard of this bonus, though I have heard that it is for ELTs extending on board a seagoing command for a minimum of 6 months.  I'm on leave right now, but will post more after I get a chance to investigate it more.