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Offline DoubleDutch

I haven't posted a lot on Nukeworker so far, but I've been looking through the forums and I love the wealth of information on all aspects of the nuclear field. Thanks for helping out nubs like me.

I'm wondering whether a senior-in-rate qual'd Electrician can ever qualify Reactor Operator on a sub. I qualified Reactor Technician, liked the instrumentation aspect of it, and learned even more about the plant than I would have otherwise. I thought I could do the same for R.O., but I was unable to get the command to sign off on a waiver (NEC required) to let me enter R.O. quals. Have you guys ever heard of any way to qualify R.O. as an Electrician? I'm willing to put forth the effort. Actually I'm putting forth the effort anyways because I enjoy learning, I can use it for EWS, and just in case they end up changing their mind later on.

ET and EM go through very similar schooling, only diverging for 3-4 weeks at the end of A-school. I have no problem putting in extra time to learn what's required in order to stand a safe R.O. watch. Anyone have experience with this?

Thanks

(i had ta include a sentance with speeling errors so I could get one of tha awesome Broadzilla posts. those always make my day)

Offline Broadzilla

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Re: EM(SS) qualifying Reactor Operator, is it possible?
« Reply #1 on: Feb 22, 2010, 08:27 »
That's a great question. In the late 80s at A1W I qualified as a Reactor Operator (I was an MM2). I had one of the highest scores they'd ever had on a written and evaluated watch. Then this Lt said MMs weren't smart enough to nbe Reactor Operators so I never got to stand the watch.

Mike

Offline DDMurray

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Re: EM(SS) qualifying Reactor Operator, is it possible?
« Reply #2 on: Feb 22, 2010, 08:49 »
I haven't posted a lot on Nukeworker so far, but I've been looking through the forums and I love the wealth of information on all aspects of the nuclear field. Thanks for helping out nubs like me.

I'm wondering whether a senior-in-rate qual'd Electrician can ever qualify Reactor Operator on a sub. I qualified Reactor Technician, liked the instrumentation aspect of it, and learned even more about the plant than I would have otherwise. I thought I could do the same for R.O., but I was unable to get the command to sign off on a waiver (NEC required) to let me enter R.O. quals. Have you guys ever heard of any way to qualify R.O. as an Electrician? I'm willing to put forth the effort. Actually I'm putting forth the effort anyways because I enjoy learning, I can use it for EWS, and just in case they end up changing their mind later on.

ET and EM go through very similar schooling, only diverging for 3-4 weeks at the end of A-school. I have no problem putting in extra time to learn what's required in order to stand a safe R.O. watch. Anyone have experience with this?

Thanks

(i had ta include a sentance with speeling errors so I could get one of tha awesome Broadzilla posts. those always make my day)
Only personnel with proper NEC can qualify as RO, meaning you must complete the RO training pipeline.  In the old days, the EWS was allowed to relieve as RO for head call, but that went away in the early 80's.  There are many MM and EM who could stand the watch as well or better than ETs, but they simply aren't allowed to IAW the EDM/EDOM.  If BZ says he did, then he did, but he shouldn't have been allowed to.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
T. Roosevelt

Offline Broadzilla

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Re: EM(SS) qualifying Reactor Operator, is it possible?
« Reply #3 on: Feb 22, 2010, 09:01 »
That was their point DD. I should have never been allowed to. I just picked up the qual card and did it. My LCC said it was ok. Turns out it wasn't which was too bad. I would have been the best RO in the Navy.

Offline Already Gone

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Re: EM(SS) qualifying Reactor Operator, is it possible?
« Reply #4 on: Feb 22, 2010, 09:07 »
It doesn't make much sense, really.  It's flipping switches.  An RO must first qualify EO. An EM may qualify RT and SRO, but not RO.  Anyone can be a Throttleman.
Well, almost anyone.
As an MM, I caught flak for qualifying Throttleman (in the entire rest of the Navy Throttleman is strictly an MM watch) because none of the other MM's on the ship had ever done so.

If you can pass the tests and boards, you ought to be able to qualify and stand a watch.
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

Offline Broadzilla

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Re: EM(SS) qualifying Reactor Operator, is it possible?
« Reply #5 on: Feb 22, 2010, 09:33 »
I 100% agree.

Offline Neutron_Herder

Re: EM(SS) qualifying Reactor Operator, is it possible?
« Reply #6 on: Feb 22, 2010, 10:19 »
I haven't posted a lot on Nukeworker so far, but I've been looking through the forums and I love the wealth of information on all aspects of the nuclear field. Thanks for helping out nubs like me.

I'm wondering whether a senior-in-rate qual'd Electrician can ever qualify Reactor Operator on a sub. I qualified Reactor Technician, liked the instrumentation aspect of it, and learned even more about the plant than I would have otherwise. I thought I could do the same for R.O., but I was unable to get the command to sign off on a waiver (NEC required) to let me enter R.O. quals. Have you guys ever heard of any way to qualify R.O. as an Electrician? I'm willing to put forth the effort. Actually I'm putting forth the effort anyways because I enjoy learning, I can use it for EWS, and just in case they end up changing their mind later on.

ET and EM go through very similar schooling, only diverging for 3-4 weeks at the end of A-school. I have no problem putting in extra time to learn what's required in order to stand a safe R.O. watch. Anyone have experience with this?

Thanks

(i had ta include a sentance with speeling errors so I could get one of tha awesome Broadzilla posts. those always make my day)

Yeah, the RO thing's locked down by NEC, and there's not a whole lot you can do about that.

You'll learn just as much about the plant (if not more) by qualifying SRO.  If you want to get some time on a critical plant see if they'll let you stand some U/I watches.  It's not the same as qualifying but it will give you some insight as to what's going through the RO's brain on watch... besides the World of Warcraft game he's missing out on by having to sit at the panel.

"If everybody's thinking alike, somebody isn't thinking" - Gen. George S. Patton

Offline crusemm

Re: EM(SS) qualifying Reactor Operator, is it possible?
« Reply #7 on: Feb 22, 2010, 10:25 »
I concur, however keep learning and qualify EWS ;D.  Also, you get to stand RO U/I's while in EWS quals ;D.   I have seen 2nd classes qualify.  They weren't 2nds for long ;D.  On a previous ship I was on, all ERS's were required to qualify TH due to having to take control of the throttles during casualties.  this wound up being a benny to the EO's as that was one more person to relieve during EOM proficiencies.  I have seen RO's and EO's qualify ERLL/ERUL/ERS, I have seen MM's do SG adds (under instruction) to qualify secondary chemist.  But they were not allowed to actually qualify (NEC thing again)
Authentic truth is never simple and that any version of truth handed down from on high---whether by presidents, prime ministers, or archbishops---is inherently suspect.-Andrew Bacevich

Offline IRLFAN

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Re: EM(SS) qualifying Reactor Operator, is it possible?
« Reply #8 on: Feb 24, 2010, 06:19 »
I would have been the best RO in the Navy.

Maybe, since I was already out at the time. ;)
Democracy is 4 wolves and 1 sheep
voting on what's for dinner.

Liberty is the sheep with a .357 magnum
telling the wolves where to stick it.

Offline LivinginParadise

Re: EM(SS) qualifying Reactor Operator, is it possible?
« Reply #9 on: Feb 24, 2010, 11:10 »
There are many MM and EM who could stand the watch as well or better than ETs,

There may or may not be a certain boat out here on the waterfront where the ET/ET SEO/SRO team has screwed up so many times that ET/ET is strictly prohibited, but EM/EM and EM/ET is still allowed...  RC div also owns >50% of the incident reports in this certain boats incident report binder...

Just saying...

/end twidget bashing.

Offline Zunyr

Re: EM(SS) qualifying Reactor Operator, is it possible?
« Reply #10 on: Mar 31, 2010, 08:09 »
You could try re-enlisting for ET A-School which would get you a 3353.  Saw a MM1 reenlist to retread as ELT.

Offline The_Wedge

Re: EM(SS) qualifying Reactor Operator, is it possible?
« Reply #11 on: Apr 30, 2010, 09:15 »
As far as the EDM is concerned RO and ELT are NEC limited quals. As far as all other watch stations(AEA, ERLL, RT, TH, ERF, EO, ERUL, ERS, SEO, SRW, and SRO) are concerned as long, as you are a nuke, you can qualify. Yes that means as an EM you can qualify SRW, or ERS if your heart desires. As well, an MM can qualify EO and SRO, should he truly wish to put himself through it. Standing the watch however....well, that just depends on how the ship wants to handle it. I have seen 1 case of an EM being in the QWSL as RO. That however was just the Captain accidentally adding him in the RO tab instead of the SRO tab....lasted for all of 5 minutes.

Offline dave in St. Louis

Re: EM(SS) qualifying Reactor Operator, is it possible?
« Reply #12 on: Dec 22, 2010, 07:59 »
Yes, yes... I know I'm VERY late to this game.  But I have germane information.

We had an EM1/SS qualify RO on USS Michigan SSBN-727 (Blue) in the Eighties.  He was told that he would not be able to stand said watch, but that he could go through the qualification process.
« Last Edit: Dec 23, 2010, 10:16 by dave in St. Louis »

co60slr

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Re: EM(SS) qualifying Reactor Operator, is it possible?
« Reply #13 on: Dec 22, 2010, 08:05 »
He was told that he would not be able to stand said watch, but that he could go through the qualification process.
"Qualifying" and "Going through the motions" isn't the same.  ;)   If you can't stand the watch, you're not qualified.

Offline HydroDave63

Re: EM(SS) qualifying Reactor Operator, is it possible?
« Reply #14 on: Dec 22, 2010, 08:12 »
Well thanks Pheidippides, as intimated by Co60, you can lay down and die now,...... +K :P :) 8)

I always pictured Co60 as more of a "Quintus Arrinius" type ;)

Offline Broadzilla

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Re: EM(SS) qualifying Reactor Operator, is it possible?
« Reply #15 on: Dec 23, 2010, 12:09 »
You know what? This topic REALLY steams me because I have personal experience with this and 24 years later it STILL gets my goat!
« Last Edit: Dec 23, 2010, 11:20 by Broadzilla »

Cycoticpenguin

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Re: EM(SS) qualifying Reactor Operator, is it possible?
« Reply #16 on: Dec 23, 2010, 02:00 »
Yeah, the RO thing's locked down by NEC, and there's not a whole lot you can do about that.

You'll learn just as much about the plant (if not more) by qualifying SRO.  If you want to get some time on a critical plant see if they'll let you stand some U/I watches.  It's not the same as qualifying but it will give you some insight as to what's going through the RO's brain on watch... besides the World of Warcraft game he's missing out on by having to sit at the panel.



I apologize for being crass, but he could also stop wasting his time and qualify watch supervisor?

co60slr

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Re: EM(SS) qualifying Reactor Operator, is it possible?
« Reply #17 on: Dec 23, 2010, 06:31 »
Well thanks Pheidippides, as intimated by Co60, you can lay down and die now,...... +K :P :) 8)
Hey now...we just work for you Marssim.    [salute]  We make sure the "archives" are full of correct information, so you can search/copy/paste to links in the year 2015 when we're still seeing the same questions/issues.

 [DH]

 [coffee]

co60slr

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Re: EM(SS) qualifying Reactor Operator, is it possible?
« Reply #18 on: Dec 23, 2010, 07:32 »
...commentary to the effect of thank you but it's not accurately germane
It is germane.   (Give me a break here...it's almost Christmas).  lol

Some "RO-wannabies" are allowed to briefly sit in the sacred chair.  Some may even be able to manipulate reactivity under VERY close supervision.   Some work on the qual card (without reading the Navy Regs first) in hopes of "being the first non-RO, RO wannabe" to actual "qualify" (i.e., stand the watch NOT under instruction of a qualified RO).    Many have tried, none have done it to the true definition of "qualified".   If your CO let you "qualify", perhaps he also ended up in the Navy Times for other reasons.

Besides, radiochemistry is much more difficult than reactor physics.   Anyone can "jump smile jump" into >0 SUR; however, how many non-ELT, ELT wannabes can sample the primary without getting contaminated and getting the correct result?  Dang...some ELTs....well....#nuffsaid.

Reactor Period is now infinite.  Back to your regularly scheduled programming....

Offline dave in St. Louis

Re: EM(SS) qualifying Reactor Operator, is it possible?
« Reply #19 on: Dec 23, 2010, 10:21 »
I apologize for being crass, but he could also stop wasting his time and qualify watch supervisor?

The EM on USS Michigan was already qualified EWS.  I guess he could have gone for Chief Of The Watch instead...

Offline dave in St. Louis

Re: EM(SS) qualifying Reactor Operator, is it possible?
« Reply #20 on: Dec 23, 2010, 10:23 »
"Qualifying" and "Going through the motions" isn't the same.  ;)   If you can't stand the watch, you're not qualified.

Well, I stood the watch. ;)

Offline dave in St. Louis

Re: EM(SS) qualifying Reactor Operator, is it possible?
« Reply #21 on: Dec 23, 2010, 10:25 »
If your CO let you "qualify", perhaps he also ended up in the Navy Times for other reasons.

The CO got a promotion... CSG9/CSS17.

Offline HydroDave63

Re: EM(SS) qualifying Reactor Operator, is it possible?
« Reply #22 on: Dec 23, 2010, 07:34 »
Besides, radiochemistry is much more difficult than reactor physics. 

It must be...I still recall the FM antenna ducttaped to the ELT's clipboard   ;)

co60slr

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Re: EM(SS) qualifying Reactor Operator, is it possible?
« Reply #23 on: Dec 24, 2010, 07:07 »
Well, I stood the watch. ;)
No doubt.   Your "Dad" let you "drive without a license".   By the letter of the law, you were not "qualified" unless you also carried the ET NEC.  I may have actually read that somewhere before...although it's becoming dimmer each year.  I think some people at Corporate NNPP HQ have already decided how this will work to prevent anyone from touching the reactor unsupervised with an at-sea pen-whipped qual card.  (HINT: CO's don't grant NECs).   I'm not debating what you did and where you sat underway, but I can debate nuclear regulations.

However, I'll grant you that I have not read versions of all the Regs dating back to circa 1983.   So, does your DD-214 (i.e., the master document of all things veteran official) list you as qualifying "Reactor Operator"?  We're not talking "Shutdown RO" where yes, EMs can qualify....we're talking about "RO".  If so, than congrats...you, Dave have literally pulled a rabbit out of your hat.   

So, back to the subject thread, the answer is still no (at least for the last two decades).  A CO can NOT qualify you...legally.   You can play with a qual card, you can stand the watch under instruction, you can manipulate reactivity.   As long as there's a qualified Nuclear NEC carrying ET within arm's reach of you.

Co58

Offline Marlin

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Re: EM(SS) qualifying Reactor Operator, is it possible?
« Reply #24 on: Dec 24, 2010, 11:49 »
   Needs of the Navy, what is allowed or disallowed today may be disallowed or allowed tommorrow. I have seen exceptions to the rules for many things over the years. Research and persue if it is what you want, the only doors guaranteed to be closed are those you do not try to open. Though why not just qualify EWS you will have to stand watches on all of the control panels to qualify and will supervise the ROs while they do much of their testing (I hated hot rod functionals being three section EWS and the only first class EWS on my boat I usually got them).
« Last Edit: Dec 24, 2010, 10:01 by Marlin »

 


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