Denied Access

[refuelingtech]

I was recently denied access for 0.032 BAC after 1 hour during in processing.  First offense, 20 years in business.  NRC requires 14 day suspension.  Utility requires 3 year suspension for contractors and 14 days for employees.  Several problems in the process.  Looking for lawyer experienced in this type of matter in Illinois.  Does anyone know how to find out what the requirements are for suspension at other utilities?

[HydroDave63]

Is the lawyer for trying to get the denial removed from PADS, or termination of contract employment?

[Sun Dog]

I was recently denied access for 0.032 BAC after 1 hour during in processing.  First offense, 20 years in business.  NRC requires 14 day suspension.  Utility requires 3 year suspension for contractors and 14 days for employees.  Several problems in the process.  Looking for lawyer experienced in this type of matter in Illinois.  Does anyone know how to find out what the requirements are for suspension at other utilities?

Face it.  You screwed the pooch.  I would have thought that after 20 years, the basics of right and wrong would have sunk in.  Obviously not.  Spend your remaining dollars hiring a lawyer and fighting the system if you want, but do it knowing the other side has more money, better lawyers, and experience successfully defending their policies.

Sleep well knowing that by your actions you have opened a slot for someone else.



 

[Sun Dog]

That was not needed. I hope the union you guys are promoting will be more helpful to 20 year veterans than "Face it.  You screwed the pooch.", that's the body shops and the utilities talking. And even some of them are more willing to find a path to redemption for proven performers than that glib utterance does.

To the OP - you do need a lawyer, and a recovery plan, you did not put enough detail out there for more, and I'm not sure you should.

A person who knows the FFD rules and chooses to bust them and then whines about it does not need protection from a Union or our sympathy.  Darwin in action.  Amazing it took 20 years.

[stormgoalie]

A person who knows the FFD rules and chooses to bust them and then whines about it does not need protection from a Union or our sympathy.  Darwin in action.  Amazing it took 20 years.

At the risk of being smited for these off topic posts I am going to weigh in on this post.  As a Union Steward I do not get to "pick and choose" who I want to protect based on what I view as "stupidity" or otherwise.  A Union has to represent ALL members, including ones who make mistakes, stupid or otherwise.  If your proposed Union has a stance of letting members hang due to a mistake and offer no protection then I would definitely call into question the validity of the claim of being a Union. 

[thenukeman]

I have to agree with the utility on this.  Questions need to be asked. Did you know you had a drink before inprocessing?  Did you know they check BAC? IF so you get Darwin Award.  In my 20's I was not so harsh and even tried to get a Colonel to lessen the punishment for a pot smoker.  I know I was wrong then and was weak. I know the utility is right in having made this decision.  Your decision making skills in this matter were weak.  At the very least you should have came in late to insure BAC was not a problem. I would also have to not let you on site based on poor decision making. Good luck in finding employment elsewhere. DOE has uncleared spots, check with them. Yes I am being a Ahole to U. Hopefully NUB's and people in the business with weak decision making skills read this and think twice. You get my special spanky smiley for this poor decision.

[Sun Dog]

At the risk of being smited for these off topic posts I am going to weigh in on this post.  As a Union Steward I do not get to "pick and choose" who I want to protect based on what I view as "stupidity" or otherwise.  A Union has to represent ALL members, including ones who make mistakes, stupid or otherwise.  If your proposed Union has a stance of letting members hang due to a mistake and offer no protection then I would definitely call into question the validity of the claim of being a Union. 

First, let me make this perfectly clear to you and all the others that think I am an NPUA organizer.  I do not propose a Union.  I have never belonged to a Union.  I never intend to join a Union.  I definitely support my co-workers who are exercising their right to organize.  I also support the "company" and their right to resist the organization of labor.  That is what makes this country grand, freedom of choice!  I invite you to rejoin us here in the USA.

Like you, I will accept any and all smites for going off-topic but I question your decision making skills if you choose to be a Steward that is obligated to defend the indefensible.  That is one of the biggest hurdles that organized labor has to overcome, IMNSHO.  Coming to work drunk is inexcusable.  The future of our industry is predicated on obtaining the confidence of Mr. & Mrs. John Q. Public.  Allowing a refueling tech (or anyone else) access after he/she knowingly ignored FFD rules is not going to help.

[IPREGEN]

The lawyer will only reduce the size of your wallet. What happenned was not a criminal offense, but a violation of the station rules as seen by their local medical staff. You have been denied access, and that is what will stay with you. Start looking at DOE. Also some places will ban you for life unless you successfully complete a rehab of some sort. Good luck.

[Nuclear NASCAR]

First, let me make this perfectly clear to you and all the others that think I am an NPUA organizer.  I do not propose a Union.  I have never belonged to a Union.  I never intend to join a Union.  I definitely support my co-workers who are exercising their right to organize.  I also support the "company" and their right to resist the organization of labor.  That is what makes this country grand, freedom of choice!  I invite you to rejoin us here in the USA.

Like you, I will accept any and all smites for going off-topic but I question your decision making skills if you choose to be a Steward that is obligated to defend the indefensible.  That is one of the biggest hurdles that organized labor has to overcome, IMNSHO.  Coming to work drunk is inexcusable.  The future of our industry is predicated on obtaining the confidence of Mr. & Mrs. John Q. Public.  Allowing a refueling tech (or anyone else) access after he/she knowingly ignored FFD rules is not going to help.

At the risk of continuing to veer off-topic, a steward is obligated to defend their members. 

Pulled from: http://www.mackinac.org/9966

Mandatory representation means that once a union is recognized, whether voluntarily or after a secret-ballot election, all workers in the bargaining unit, including those who opposed unionization or supported another union, are legally obligated to accept that union's representation. At the same time, the union is legally obligated to represent all workers in that bargaining unit both in collective bargaining and in pursuing workplace grievances; this is referred to as the "duty of fair representation."

That being said I believe this is probably some good advice and applicable to many a discussion on our little corner of the internet:

I'll weigh in on this a little bit more;

The OP came here looking for any leads on an Illinois lawyer to help him with his problem.

Part 26 rules are tough, lawyers who specialize in this CFR are the best to help people when they fail the system or the system fails them.

We tend to believe our indications,...granted. The OP came here for help, none of us can tote his water for what is happening to him, there's no need to piss in his bucket and make it heavier.

You know those tests are not always infallible, nor the test administrators, and sometimes illicit levels of substances can be ingested from seemingly unsuspect sources.

Give the OP some help or let him alone is all I'm saying.

With a nod to Yoda; Help or help not.   

[Sun Dog]

The OP came here for help, none of us can tote his water for what is happening to him, there's no need to piss in his bucket and make it heavier.

Give the OP some help or let him alone is all I'm saying.

Nothing is "happening to him" that he/she did not willingly invite.

Here is some help, although not the sort the OP seeks:

1.  Stop drinking before you go to work at a nuclear power plant.
2.  Embrace personal accountability.  It will carry you far beyond your former career.

[Sun Dog]

At the risk of continuing to veer off-topic, a steward is obligated to defend their members.  

Ditto on the risk, but Irving Kanarek was obligated to defend Charlie Manson too.  Judge Older told Kanarek he was "totally without scruples, ethics, and professional responsibility."  I wonder if Irving slept well at night knowing he fulfilled his chosen obligation.

[walstib]

I was recently denied access for 0.032 BAC after 1 hour during in processing. 

Utilities do the math for how long it takes your liver function to process alcohol, so if you blew a 0.032 after being there an hour they most likely will say that you showed up at work greater then 0.04 BAC limit.  Just something you should let your lawyer know if you proceed with getting one. 

About 15 years ago after attending a bachelors party the night before I showed up and blew a 0.01.  That was after a solid nine hours of sleep.  Not to preach but if you drink a lot drinks or do a lot of shots the night before you run the risk of failing FFD at work.  It doesn't have to be an Irish coffee in the morning to bust you.  I was fortunate to learn that lesson early on without having any ramifications.

[stownsend]

martindale .com will give you every lawyer,specialty etc. If you search and find a local,get a consultation and ask for a reference that knows what you need.Martindale-Hubble is peer reviewed for each service.

[kp88]

I was recently denied access for 0.032 BAC after 1 hour during in processing.  First offense, 20 years in business.  NRC requires 14 day suspension.  Utility requires 3 year suspension for contractors and 14 days for employees.  Several problems in the process.  Looking for lawyer experienced in this type of matter in Illinois.  Does anyone know how to find out what the requirements are for suspension at other utilities?

10CFR26.75:
(e) Lacking any other evidence to indicate the use, sale, or possession of illegal drugs or consumption of alcohol on site, a confirmed positive drug or alcohol test result must be presumed to be an indication of offsite drug or alcohol use in violation of the FFD policy.
(1) The first violation of the FFD policy involving a confirmed positive drug or alcohol test result must, at a minimum, result in the immediate unfavorable termination of the individual's authorization for at least 14 days from the date of the unfavorable termination.

I'm not sure if this is what you're asking, but, a utility employee is extremely expensive and time consuming to replace in terms of training and qualifications.  Hence a fourteen day suspension with some sort of substance abuse counseling involved.  (A second offense is a different story.)
I don't intend to demean vendors in any way, but if a vendor employee fails an FFD test, the utility denies site access and asks the vendor for someone else.

[HydroDave63]

At the risk of being smited for these off topic posts I am going to weigh in on this post.  As a Union Steward I do not get to "pick and choose" who I want to protect based on what I view as "stupidity" or otherwise.  A Union has to represent ALL members, including ones who make mistakes, stupid or otherwise.  If your proposed Union has a stance of letting members hang due to a mistake and offer no protection then I would definitely call into question the validity of the claim of being a Union. 

That's true, but the Union (at least the ones I have joined ) were only obligated to represent to second step. If arbitration or litigation was needed, that was a call by the Union Pres or Business Agent or vote of duespayers. The end result in OP's case would be the same. Yes, you could grieve the what/where/when and process, but after management and the MRO presented their facts, I would seriously doubt that any Union would spend duespayers money on this case.

[stormgoalie]

That's true, but the Union (at least the ones I have joined ) were only obligated to represent to second step. If arbitration or litigation was needed, that was a call by the Union Pres or Business Agent or vote of duespayers. The end result in OP's case would be the same. Yes, you could grieve the what/where/when and process, but after management and the MRO presented their facts, I would seriously doubt that any Union would spend duespayers money on this case.

You are partially correct as to how our Union does its business.  Our Union Staff Officers, glorified lawyer, will look at the merits of each case and determine if we will proceed to arbitration or not.  Having said that in a case like this where no Union is involved it is moot, but if the OP were a member of our Union we would definitely engage Management and ascertain if there is a mutually acceptable compromise that can be worked out.  Of course as I said, in this case it is a moot point.

[refuelingtech]

I do not denie a mistake.  Good judgement goes down in proportion to number of drinks.  I would suggest that anyone that drinks get a personal breath analyzer to use prior to going to site and driving ( I do not drink anymore).  Your body does not know what its current BAC level is.  .015 hourly metabolism x 5 hour rule = .075 BAC.  Less than DWI.  George Bush had a DWI and Dick Cheney had 2 back when the DWI level was .150. There are thousands of DWI's in America daily.
The current NRC rule for Denied Access is 14 days suspension for alcohol or drugs.  An SRO using Heroin or Cocaine is treated the same as alcohol.  Alcohol is available legally and widely used.  One can overindulge at home and not affect anyone. .032 is not drunk.  Tests show that driving is not affected until .050 and the .080 for DWI is set to prevent accidents. It use to be almost double at .150.  The tests for Cocaine or Heroin do not have a metabolism rate or defined what is high or not.  Simply a minmum.   Someone that gets a DWI is a criminal.  Someone that blows .032 overindulged and made descisions that were influenced by alcohol.  The DWI person should get the same or worse penalty.  They broke the law.  The drug user should get a higher penalty, they also broke the law.  As far as employee getting 14 days and contractor getting (78 times more) 3 years that seems like discrimination.  It also affects the contractor at every nuclear plant in the nation.  Where it does not affect the employee.  By destroying the contractor you do not assist in rehabilitation.  The 14 days is actually way less than the recommended 8 to 12 weeks of rehabilatation in a recovery plan.
I thank everyone for their comments.  I congratulate the persons that have never abused alcohol in their lives.  That is the ones that never had more than 2 drinks in 1 day. 

[jowlman]

One thing that I think that some people are failing to realize. Hiring a lawyer will do you no good. As a contractor we do not work for the utility, they did not fire him. They did not allow him  access to their facility for violating their policy, there is nothing actionable about that.

Another thing to consider is that most contract companies hire people "work at will". Therefore they don't need any reason to lay a person off. All they have to do is inform you that your services are no longer needed. Again, there is no recourse for this. Now of course if the company is dumb enough to give you a reason, and that reason is illegal, then you could have recourse.

[retired nuke]

I do not denie a mistake.  Good judgement goes down in proportion to number of drinks.  I would suggest that anyone that drinks get a personal breath analyzer to use prior to going to site and driving ( I do not drink anymore).  Your body does not know what its current BAC level is.  .015 hourly metabolism x 5 hour rule = .075 BAC.  Less than DWI.  George Bush had a DWI and Dick Cheney had 2 back when the DWI level was .150. There are thousands of DWI's in America daily.
The current NRC rule for Denied Access is 14 days suspension for alcohol or drugs.  An SRO using Heroin or Cocaine is treated the same as alcohol.  Alcohol is available legally and widely used.  One can overindulge at home and not affect anyone. .032 is not drunk.  Tests show that driving is not affected until .050 and the .080 for DWI is set to prevent accidents. It use to be almost double at .150.  The tests for Cocaine or Heroin do not have a metabolism rate or defined what is high or not.  Simply a minmum.   Someone that gets a DWI is a criminal.  Someone that blows .032 overindulged and made descisions that were influenced by alcohol.  The DWI person should get the same or worse penalty.  They broke the law.  The drug user should get a higher penalty, they also broke the law.  As far as employee getting 14 days and contractor getting (78 times more) 3 years that seems like discrimination.  It also affects the contractor at every nuclear plant in the nation.  Where it does not affect the employee.  By destroying the contractor you do not assist in rehabilitation.  The 14 days is actually way less than the recommended 8 to 12 weeks of rehabilatation in a recovery plan.
I thank everyone for their comments.  I congratulate the persons that have never abused alcohol in their lives.  That is the ones that never had more than 2 drinks in 1 day. 

Sorry, falls under different laws. You violated 10CFR26. DUI is generally a state law, having to do with the motor vehicle code. Both specify the penalties that were determined to be applicable when the rules were made / amended. NRC allows the utilities some leeway to be more conservative. 10CFR26 doesn't specify fines / jail for offenders (unless they violate other laws, and are referred to local law enforcement). It just allows the utility to say they don't want to play with you. Other utilities have different time periods - at my place, it's 1 yr with rehab for contractors.

Good luck - it ain't like the old days....

[retread]

I do not denie a mistake.  Good judgement goes down in proportion to number of drinks.  I would suggest that anyone that drinks get a personal breath analyzer to use prior to going to site and driving ( I do not drink anymore).  Your body does not know what its current BAC level is.  .015 hourly metabolism x 5 hour rule = .075 BAC.  Less than DWI.  George Bush had a DWI and Dick Cheney had 2 back when the DWI level was .150. There are thousands of DWI's in America daily.
The current NRC rule for Denied Access is 14 days suspension for alcohol or drugs.  An SRO using Heroin or Cocaine is treated the same as alcohol.  Alcohol is available legally and widely used.  One can overindulge at home and not affect anyone. .032 is not drunk.  Tests show that driving is not affected until .050 and the .080 for DWI is set to prevent accidents. It use to be almost double at .150.  The tests for Cocaine or Heroin do not have a metabolism rate or defined what is high or not.  Simply a minmum.   Someone that gets a DWI is a criminal.  Someone that blows .032 overindulged and made descisions that were influenced by alcohol.  The DWI person should get the same or worse penalty.  They broke the law.  The drug user should get a higher penalty, they also broke the law.  As far as employee getting 14 days and contractor getting (78 times more) 3 years that seems like discrimination.  It also affects the contractor at every nuclear plant in the nation.  Where it does not affect the employee.  By destroying the contractor you do not assist in rehabilitation.  The 14 days is actually way less than the recommended 8 to 12 weeks of rehabilatation in a recovery plan.
I thank everyone for their comments.  I congratulate the persons that have never abused alcohol in their lives.  That is the ones that never had more than 2 drinks in 1 day. 

I don't even know where to start with this post.  You drank, you went to work with alcohol in your system, they proved it was in your system, you understand the requirements of 10CFR26.  Why is it the utilities, state, coke head, or heroin addicts fault?!  Yeah, I used to drink.  I drank heavily.  I NEVER went to work where I stood any chance of blowing numbers!  I'll admit, in my early 20's, I missed more work than I should have but I didn't blame the plant for checking B.A.C.!

[IPREGEN]

Almost any of the HP vendor companies will provide you the guidance you need to get working again. They have been dealing with folks that occasionally exercise poor judgement and it benefits everybody to get you sorted out. The company that denied you access has no obligation to hire you at all. Now you need to have a response for "Have you ever been denied access?" call Eric Bartlett, he should be able to steer you in the right direction. Be humble, be open.

[namlive]

I remember the days when this type of offense gave you a letter in your file. YIKES!  I am scratching my head on this one. Com-Ed  was where one went if they got busted for drugs somewhere else, as they had the most lenient policy toward offenders. Now they are being hard nosed?

Face it. It is a DUI type offense. We all know a guy who has had these in NM, Pa., Mass., NY, and Ohio and passing through a few states that don't have nukes and is still swinging a meter.

There is plenty of work out there, even for those who don't play by the rules. I would lick my wounds and exercise my options. More sins are forgiven during a heavy outage season than Yom Kippur.

So the utility has a double standard. It uses one standard for contractors in which they have zero dollars invested, and another standard for its house people in which they have invested many hours of training. They didn't fire you and you are not black balled. The utility considers you a risk until you have proved you no longer have a drinking problem.  They define a "drinking problem" as, "if your drinking effects your ability to work it is a problem."  All you have to do is to find 12 people who agree with you.

If you indeed have 20 years in the industry young man, then you would be a returnee at other locations which should welcome you back with open arms. Pay your 3 years dues, give your liver a break, and then attempt a return.

[Graphic]

Guess someone decided to bring up old threads, I remember when I did that 

Anyways, in house employees will always have more leeway than contractors no matter how you look at it. 14 days is the typical and they will get you with EAP and probably have a substance abuse evaluation and interview with psych and MRO if need be.

3 year ban just really became procedure. Used to be 1 year ban and a lot of places still do 1 year in a roundabout fashion but for the most part anything drug/alcohol related after 1st offense now days is going to be 3 years. 5 years for second.

If I wasn't out of town right now I could write the procedures verbatim but I don't have them on my personal laptop!

[namlive]

OOPS. My Bad. I use the "unread posts since last visit" and somehow this one came up.  I didn't even check. When does the "Hey stupid! You are repling to a dead post!" warning kick in?

[blackballedsnake]

Speaking of old threads...here's a good take on the subject. (I haven't been active on Nukeworker in ages...forgiveness please!) Sun Dog has a "zero tolerance/no second chances" attitude when it comes to FFD policy violators...and is entitled to that viewpoint. I know of personnel within the industry (no names will be exposed) who have lost unescorted access NOT through their own poor choices, but from other nefarious "individuals" actions. For example: by having a drink "spiked" with various date rape drugs etc., or by persons wanting to screw up someone's career on purpose. (a spiteful ex-girlfriend, etc.) Someone who knows that the worker must submit to pre-employment FFD testing could make a plan. Is this scenario plausible? Absolutely! Always remember CYA...ya never know who is ready and willing to "go the distance"...et tu Brute? - Snake.