My personal situation and the Navy Nuke program

[BlackMatter]

I spent about the last two hours looking at imthehoopa's  Collection of useful posts to potential/ new recruits and the information I found was fantastic(MUCH thannks to him.), but it also caused me to think about my interests and how they could coincide with my service as an incoming Nuke in the Navy. I'll first just give a little information about myself so you guys can understand where my questions are coming from.

Right out of high school, I was originally going to attend either a university or a community college to study music, but my mother(trying to push me out of the nest) kept trying to push me towards the military. I went to a local recruiter hoping that I could either do an ROTC program, a 2-year enlistment, or the Reserves(the last two, I was completely ignorant about, I know now that I could not have done either, really.). I went to the recruiter, and he put me on a computer for an ASVAB pretest, which I scored a perfect 99 on. He recommended me to the nuke program, and I've ran with it. My swear-in date is in 2 days.

Here are my questions, I would greatly appreciate any input or answers that may be given. I accept any chastisement from senior members for not having found any answers that may already be on the website(scared of Broadzilla ). Here they are.

1. I want to continue music, but I know that the Nuke program is extremely time-demanding. I also know that the needs of the Navy take priority over personal interests. I just wanted to know if I would possibly have an hour or two a day(or even week) to practice while Im in school and on a ship.

2. I have spoken to ex-Navy personnell who were also musicians and they told me that they were able to perform on ports. Does anyone know if that's still possible or acceptable as a nuke?

3. Ive searched for the policy for stayin onboard for a ship, but all I know is that sailors sometimes have on-board duty at a port, where they must stay on the carrier. Is it possible to volunteer?

4. I'm from California, and after my service I hope to find a job at the San Onofri power plant. I had been told that the pay was over $100,000, but I read in another post that it could be as low as $40,000. Does anybody know the average pay at that particular plant?

5. Honestly. Is it really possible to take college classes on top of regular nuke service on-board the ship? I've heard yes and no.

6. I have read that the pass rate sucks at the NNPS. Do I have a good chance to succeed with 95 ASVAB, 66 Nuke test score, and 1800 SAT along with hard work of course..  ?

7. Im sort of a nerd-jock hybrid. I need to work out. Are there weight-lifting facilities at NNPS?

8. Last one. I read that the Enterprise is being decommissioned in 2014.. I was really hoping to work on that carrier. Any news on what's going to happen to it?

Thank you, I know they're dragged out questions, but I just really needed to know this stuff so I know what to expect when I sign the contract and swear in. This is a really good forum with very informed and experienced members, and I know that my nerves can be laid to rest here. Thanks again!

(Broadzilla, I don't want to cry in front of grown men..   )

[co60slr]

1. I want to continue music, but I know that the Nuke program is extremely time-demanding. I also know that the needs of the Navy take priority over personal interests. I just wanted to know if I would possibly have an hour or two a day(or even week) to practice while Im in school and on a ship.

2. I have spoken to ex-Navy personnell who were also musicians and they told me that they were able to perform on ports. Does anyone know if that's still possible or acceptable as a nuke?

3. Ive searched for the policy for stayin onboard for a ship, but all I know is that sailors sometimes have on-board duty at a port, where they must stay on the carrier. Is it possible to volunteer?

4. I'm from California, and after my service I hope to find a job at the San Onofri power plant. I had been told that the pay was over $100,000, but I read in another post that it could be as low as $40,000. Does anybody know the average pay at that particular plant?

5. Honestly. Is it really possible to take college classes on top of regular nuke service on-board the ship? I've heard yes and no.

6. I have read that the pass rate sucks at the NNPS. Do I have a good chance to succeed with 95 ASVAB, 66 Nuke test score, and 1800 SAT along with hard work of course..  ?

7. Im sort of a nerd-jock hybrid. I need to work out. Are there weight-lifting facilities at NNPS?

8. Last one. I read that the Enterprise is being decommissioned in 2014.. I was really hoping to work on that carrier. Any news on what's going to happen to it?

1.  Yes.  The majority are rumored to play video games.  You can play music instead.  You'll have free time to make personal choices.

2.  Yes.  See #1.

5.  Yes.  See #1.  However, you'll probably have to wait until you're qualified.  When you start getting bored as a nuke, it's time to do something proactive...you'll know when the time is right for you.

6.  SAT scores do not predict success...in any walk of life. 

8.  CVN-65.  I know more people that left that ship with psychological scars (e.g., very hard duty).  If you want to accomplish some of the personal goals you've outlined, MY advice is to stay away from her.  Perhaps a CVN-65 crewmember can talk you into it.

I too endeavored to make music the #1 career choice.  However, I'm glad I didn't but still make it a huge part of my life.

Co60

[KUrunner]

7. Im sort of a nerd-jock hybrid. I need to work out. Are there weight-lifting facilities at NNPS?

Yep, there is a gym in the Bowman Center (the rec center at NNPTC) as well as a larger gym near the NEX. 

[BlackMatter]

Wow! Thank you guys for this information, now I'm really anxious to go. I feel a lot better about going. Maybe some other guys will come answer the other ones, but even if not, Im really satisfied with what you two have told me. Thanks again!

8.  CVN-65.  I know more people that left that ship with psychological scars (e.g., very hard duty).  If you want to accomplish some of the personal goals you've outlined, MY advice is to stay away from her.  Perhaps a CVN-65 crewmember can talk you into it.

I too endeavored to make music the #1 career choice.  However, I'm glad I didn't but still make it a huge part of my life.

How many other carriers are there, and would you recommend any specific one?
And is it easy keeping music a part of your life after Navy Nuke life? Im worried about the hours at the plant taking up my time..

[Preciousblue1965]

Ok young Padawan, a few things for you to consider:

There are currently 9 nuclear Carriers out there(65, and 69-76, with the 77 on the way) with most of the odd number on the East coast and the even numbers of the left coast.

I have known several musicians during my time that I was in, most of them formed various "ship's" bands that played during steel beach picnics.  Two of them even managed to get gigs at local drinking holes in Australia, then agian later once we got back to the States. 

With regards to time to practice, just remember that quals come first but there will be some free time to play, but even more once you are qualified Senior In Rate. 

Finally, I am sure you have heard that you get 30 days paid vacation every year, just realize that it is somewhat incorrect.  Unlike in the civilian world, you are required to burn vacation days even during your regular days off if those days are in your leave window.  In other words,  say you wanted to take vacation from Monday through Friday of a week.  Most people see that as 5 days of leave, but in the military that would be 9 days because you would have to take leave for the weekends too(assuming that you didn't check back in on that Friday because you are still out of the area).  So while you may actually get 30 days of leave per year, you could possibly burn up a lot of days that would normally be off days.

[Fermi2]

I'm curious, when did this leave policy you talk about start?

[sovbob]

It's been in effect since at least 2003.

The premise being that you should not combine leave and liberty.  Therefore, if you check out on leave on a Friday, you're charged for leave until you come back to work (Monday, nine days later).

As a result, it was typical for a person to take leave starting on a Monday afternoon.  Show up for work, and check out on leave at the end of the day (or if you're friends with the right people, you can get out a little earlier...) and only get charged six days instead of nine.

[Neutron_Herder]

It's been that way since I can remember.  The interpretation of leave start and stop times is printed on the back of the leave chit.

Even with it written down it is still open for interpretation...  especially if you're taking leave and staying in the local area.  Then you just check out by phone on Monday morning and call in on Friday after working hours end. 

If you're going out of town you're just screwed though.

[Gamecock]

MILPERSMAN has changed within the last few years. 

You can combine leave and liberty.

You cannot combine leave and special liberty.

I'll post a link to the article if I get a chance later.

Cheers,
GC

[Preciousblue1965]

I stand corrected.  The can't combine leave and liberty policy was still in effect(either officially or unofficially) while I was still in and it always irked me that you had to burn leave days over weekends that you would normally be off anyways. 

[co60slr]

How many other carriers are there, and would you recommend any specific one?

And is it easy keeping music a part of your life after Navy Nuke life? Im worried about the hours at the plant taking up my time..

Recommend a CVN?  No.  Go subs.  (Personal preference).

Your posting has me reflecting on my situation a few decades ago.   I was accepted into a University Music program...off to college to live my dream (music performance).   As a backup, I was going to double-major in Computer Science (very big back then).   [Insert long story on how I ended up at the recruiter...most nukes have one].

Boot Camp.   I was the ceremonial band leader.  "Triple Threat".   Practicing marching/playing an instrument in boot camp?   They tell you "not to volunteer" for anything in boot camp.   They asked for volunteers and I had my hand up first.  Great time.

Great Lakes A-School Marching Band.  Yep...found out they had a Navy Marching Band (no one was an MU rate other than the director...all volunteer).   After A-School (back when the Navy made real MMs at the Great Lakes A-School), we'd practice while the other guys marched, had uniform inspections, etc.  We were in a few parades in downtown Chicago...great time.

NPS Orlando.  Sorry...I studied.  The instruments collected dust and I did everything I could to survive...as did everyone else.

First Submarine.  I took an instrument underway (not unheard of at all).  I practiced in a lower machinery level every now and then.  "Half way nights" (a submarine ritual) usually involve music skits.   

Music has always been a part of my life...just not as my first career.   It was a very positive experience in my teen days and onward, but I also loved Math and Science.  I had to choose.   Hindsight being 20/20...I wouldn't change a thing!   My house has plenty of instruments for me to relieve stress with in the meanwhile.   I also love photography, but that's a different thread (and a great college course!).

You can't do both for a career, but you don't have to pick one or the other.  See my other postings...you choose Navy, now give her 110%.  But make music in your free time.  It works...you're not losing yourself...continue to explore.

Oh...my first submarine engineroom hummed around a C#.

Co60

[Abiien]

In response to Co60Slr's reply,

I am now in Power School right now, about 1/3 way through, and if I can say one thing to ya and one thing only its this:
Don't volunteer for sub's until you know 100% what you want. Most Sub vol's loved being on a sub, but you have all through the pipeline (for the most part) to volunteer for sub's. Once you volunteer you can't unvolunteer. A little advice, because plenty of my friends regret volunteering, even though they don't know what it's like because they haven't been a Nuke on a Sub before, but you can still choose later down the road.

And for the music; If you are smart, motivated, and dedicated to being the best sailor you can be, you will have plenty of time to study. I.e., I put in about 10 hours a week (given there is a test in this week and that I am on vol's, or voluntary hour program) and i spend the rest of the day playing soccer, running, playing Diablo 2, reading, watching TV, sleeping (my favorite). You get friday after noon and saturday completely off of "tack" (you'll look about what this means) study hours (if you choose and if you don't have to do more than 15 hours in those 3 days) That's so many hours of playing music and going out and having fun. So don't worry about that. Once ya get to prototype it get's a little more tough for the first few months from what i'm assuming, but still viable.

One thing they drill into you as you arrive at NNPTC is "Prioritizing." It's something you may blow by and learn a little, but don't take it lightly. There will be days where you will have class from 0645 to 1600 and 5 hours of homework and you have to start studying for your test the day after next, laundry is built up, you have to call your Momma, and you don't have any toothpaste  or toilet paper and you need to buy it. It's completely possible, stressful, but possible. I say this because prioritizing correctly is going to make you stronger as a Sailor. Playing your music, doing thing you love in your off time and most importantly doing what the Navy requires of you in their time (which really is all the time...) has two effects on your life: Setting a good example for others, and making yourself happy.

Lengthy post, but I hope to get a point across. This is so far one of the best decisions I have made, to join this program.

[IRLFAN]

8.  CVN-65.  I know more people that left that ship with psychological scars (e.g., very hard duty).  If you want to accomplish some of the personal goals you've outlined, MY advice is to stay away from her.  Perhaps a CVN-65 crewmember can talk you into it.


Co60

What's with all the badmouthing CVN-65?  I served onboard for more than three years, and any friend of mine, if I had any, would tell you that I'm completely psychologically scar free.  Of course that was over twenty five years ago, things might have changed a bit.

[HydroDave63]

What's with all the badmouthing CVN-65?  I served onboard for more than three years, and any friend of mine, if I had any, would tell you that I'm completely psychologically scar free.  Of course that was over twenty five years ago, things might have changed a bit.

Plus it's the most flexible carrier out there....ever seen the pictures of her doing that really hard list in the mid-80's?

[Gamecock]

....ever seen the pictures of her doing that really hard list in the mid-80's?

That's funny...I don't care who you are

[Already Gone]

#3.  You heard wrong.  Sailors OFTEN have duty and must stay on board the ship.  Figure on once every 3 or 4 days.  Sometimes, it is as often as every other day.  You will be assigned to a duty section.  You will stand duty with that section unless you get permission to swap with someone who is equally qualified.  This requires participation of a few layers of the chain of command, so you would only do it when absolutely necessary - such as your daughter's wedding or when you score tickets to a great concert.  Don't count on it.

Most of the people who live on the ship full time do so because they have no other choice.    Either there are no BEQ available and they can't afford to rent a place without BAH, or they have spent their BAH supporting a wife who does not live near the base.  Others are restricted to the ship because they were naughty little sailors.

You will want to spend every possible moment off the ship no matter where it is tied up.

As far as the leave/liberty issue goes, it was always true that you leave starts the moment you sign out and ends the moment you sign in.  When you sign in it may just magically become your duty day, so don't count on signing in on a Friday afternoon and getting the weekend off.  You could check in Friday afternoon and be at sea Friday night for six months.  Best to call your new command before you check in just to be sure.
Liberty and leave are not even close to the same thing.  Liberty is time off work.  Normally, a command has a defined geographical area which you may not leave unless you are checked out on leave.  While on liberty, you are subject to immediate recall.  So, it is not possible to fly home on Friday and have your leave start Monday morning.

However, as much as this sounds like a bone job, it is still a good deal.  Even though you have to burn leave days on weekends, you still get 30 of them every year.  The average civilian has to be employed by the same company for 15 or 20 years before being eligible for four weeks paid vacation.  I guess it is some sort of payback for the fact that you will have duty for part of nearly every weekend, and most holidays for your whole enlistment.  Not paid in full, but it's something.

#4.  San Onofre is an interesting place to work.  Six years from now, it will be just as interesting, but who knows what the pay will be.  Historically, it has been at the low end of the pay spectrum because it isn't hard to get people to want to work there.  Seems that people enjoy living in a sunny climate near the ocean so much that they will put up with a bankrupt state government, mudslides, wildfires, earthquakes, ridiculous traffic, smog, real estate prices that are totally unrealistic, draconian government regulation, and -- yes-- lower pay.  But there is no such thing as an entry level job paying $100k.  Unless you manage to get a graduate degree in law, or medicine from an Ivy League school - or become a gifted athlete at a major league level, count on five figures unless you hit the overtime jackpot.
SONGS is NOT the overtime capitol of nuclear power.

[co60slr]

What's with all the badmouthing CVN-65?  I served onboard for more than three years, and any friend of mine, if I had any, would tell you that I'm completely psychologically scar free.  Of course that was over twenty five years ago, things might have changed a bit.

She's an old ship.  I would never dream of "bad mouthing"...again, just articulating that from the third hand stories I've heard, she offers a very difficult duty station.   Hence, the disclaimer that perhaps someone can offer a positive story.  What's yours for our young poster?   

On the other hand, as a retired submariner, I see only another "target".      Start a thread on Boats vs Ships and I'm in. 

[Gamecock]

In lieu of the proferred article we'll just have to defer to BeerCourt,....

Or...the article could be found by doing a search on the BUPERS website.

So, in other words, thats a look-up

[Marlin]

Or...the article could be found by doing a search on the BUPERS website.

So, in other words, thats a look-up

Does that make Marssim 

OK I'm  so I'll return to my 

BlackMatter the experience is different for everyone, however the jitters when entering is a pretty common denominator. So is "I would never do that again but I'm glad I did" for us fossils.

[Already Gone]

In lieu of the proferred article we'll just have to defer to BeerCourt,....

CH-25, 23 Dec 2008
Page 2 of 3
(2) Do not combine liberty periods with leave when
leaving the immediate geographic area of the duty station, as
defined by the local command.

That's from the referenced article.

the only reason I made such a big deal out of it is that there has always been "that guy" who tries to put one over on his command by getting his yeoman buddy to sign him out on leave starting Monday and hops a jet Friday afternoon.  It has even been suggested here on NukeWorker as a 9 for 5 deal.  I wouldn't want the young 'un to fallfor such a scam.  You can get into huge trouble doing stuff like that.

Here's the paragraph that follows:
(3) Special liberty may be combined with leave. The
member must be physically present within the geographic area (as
defined by the local command) for the period of special liberty.
If the member is not physically present within the geographic
area for the duration of special liberty (when combined with
leave), the entire period of leave and special liberty will be
charged as leave.

This is a mild understatement of what can happen to you for being out of command on liberty.  Charging it as leave is actually the least likely consequence.  Depending on your XO, CO, DivO, LPO or whoever might have a bad day that day, you will probably be charged with UA, possibly missing movement, and the all-encompassing Article 92.

[Already Gone]

AH, but we DO care.  That is why we post here in the nuke wannabe area.  Including yourself.
Verbosity is my vice.  I don't have the time to edit them down to succinctness.
To quote Blaise Pascal,

"I have made this [letter] longer, because I have not had the time to make it shorter."
    - "Lettres provinciales", letter 16, 1657

[gim73]

Okay, the leave thing is done to death now...

I guess I should probably chime in and throw in the boomer perspective.  Carriers and fast attack boats are both subject to the whole 'leaving at the whims of the navy' and you will be some sort of short duty section whenever you are in port, but boomers have a bit of an advantage.  You know exactly when you will be leaving, doing refit, going into drydock and enjoying offcrew period some time in advance.  It's a trade-off because you will never see an exotic port (unless you consider hawaii exotic) and have to deal with MTs, but you do get some nice time off.  Of course the only way to get a boomer is to volunteer subs, and if you do that, you WILL be stuck with whatever the navy wants to give you.  And don't think that being a top performer is gonna get you some special favor in duty station selection.  It might get you picked up as a SPU, but initial duty station is completely random out of a hat.  Needs of the Navy son...  My prototype class was 50% Enterprise, and most of them didn't realize that until it was too late.

Boomer life does have some very sweet incentives.  If you can pull it off, you can be off duty sections up to 50% of the time.  You can paint during refit assist or even get started in the offcrew building.  If your offcrew period matches up right, I've known some sailors that have taken college courses during offcrew.  Being off crew is basically a day job where you train.  Weekends are always free and if your command is cool, lunches are long.  Only real disadvantage is that you grow weak during off crew, while everyone else stays strong.

But... if you want to be on a target...

[IRLFAN]

#3.  You heard wrong.  Sailors OFTEN have duty and must stay on board the ship.  Figure on once every 3 or 4 days.  Sometimes, it is as often as every other day.  

Funny story.  We were (that is Enterprise) anchored in Mombasa over Thanksgiving 1982.  I was in the first class mess eating dinner, and one of the BM's asked me why I was still aboard. When I explained that I had duty, he was confused, since he knew I had duty the previous port.  I explained in words of one syllable or less, that I was in three section duty.  He was unable to grasp why. I then explained that we still had 4 reactor plants up. When he asked why, I replied with a simple, "you need electricity don't you?".  He then responded with a surprised "you guys make electricity?".  I immediately told him "No, we have a very long extension cord back to Alameda".  This was the same guy that asked me how, during underway refueling we pumped uranium onboard.  It was easy to see how he had twenty years in and had ALREADY made
E-6.

[Gamecock]

It's a trade-off because you will never see an exotic port (unless you consider hawaii exotic) 

I don't know if its exotic or not, but I did a port visit in Rota, Spain while on a boomer. 

[Already Gone]

If the musical instrument is a big part of your life, you're going to need to be on a carrier.
Of course, there might be room for one guitar on a sub if you can get someone to let you store it somewhere.  Nothing bigger than a piccolo is going to fit in your locker.  There is actually lots of room on a sub to store stuff, but personal items outside your personal space require permission of the division in charge of the space.

Time for a sea story.

ELT's are notorious for bullshitting officers.  Sometimes we got away with it.  Anyway, our antique submarine (the one with the hand-crank reactor control rods) was really tight for space.  I was sitting in the nucleonics lab filling out some log or graph, when one of the most junior officers came in and informed me that he was auditing the radioactive material inventory.  I opened the lockers for him, inside one of which was an obviously well-used basketball.  Of course, he inquired what the basketball was doing inside a RAM storage locker.
Without hesitation, I told him that it was the flotation device for rad. material transfers.  Normally, when carrying RAM off the ship and onto a tender, a small buoy is attached so that if you drop the RAM into the drink, the divers can locate it.
I told the Ensign that we had lost the buoy and simply had replaced it with the basketball that would be placed inside a mesh sock bag and tied to the items being transferred.
He bought it for about four seconds.  On his way out, he reminded me that it would need to be surveyed if it was going to be removed from the lab.
It's a good thing he didn't look in all the lockers.

Point of the story?  Play a very small instrument or don't volunteer for subs.  Or find an instrument that floats.  Not even the greenest Ensign is going to believe that your tuba is the backup ship's horn.