Supposed to be shipping soon, need some guidance.

[123abc]

Hello everyone, I would like to start off by saying that I feel completely terrible for putting myself in this situation, and I completely regret it.  Also, I would like to thank everyone on this forum for sharing their wisdom, and being completely honest.

So, to begin my story, I went into the recruiters office because I felt as though my college career wasn't going where I wanted it to. I was in my third year, majoring in cellular and molecular biology, and I couldn't see myself either, A) working a minor position in a laboratory, or B) going to grad school.  So, I decided to look into the military.  The nuke program really interested me, so I decided to go into meps and begin my nuclear journey.  Unfortunately, a year ago I decided to go to my doctor and ask for a prescription for a slight case of situational anxiety I was having at the time (it was a hard time for me in my life, and looking back it was the wrong direction to go to solve the problem.)  The doctor told me we would just test a low dosage for a while, and then see what we would do from there.  I (wrongly) assumed that I had not yet been diagnosed with any real problem, and accordingly, told meps the same thing.  I ended up getting the prescription, but never took it, or asked my doctor for more/ a higher dosage. 

After I went to meps and saw that they asked me questions about my mental history, I decided to go ahead and call my doctors office and check to see whether or not I had actually been diagnosed with a mental disorder.  They told me that I had been diagnosed with anxiety.  After that, I went to my recruiter and told him what the truth was, and he just told me that no one will ever be able to see my medical history, and that I should just keep my mouth shut, which I took to be sound advice at the time because I really trusted my recruiter.  After having found this forum, however, I am really regretting that decision.

I am supposed to be shipping on Tuesday, and I plan on telling the truth (along with a doctors note) at the moment of truth, even though I know that I stand a substantial chance of getting kicked out of the Navy.  My question is, what do you think the chances of me being kicked out are, and if I do get kicked out, is there any chance that I will be able to re-enlist with a different recruiter.

I know I make a huge mistake in holding back this information this whole time, but the only person I could really get any information from was my recruiter... so I trusted him.  I really want to be a nuke, and any information that could help me get back in would be greatly appreciated.

[Cycoticpenguin]

WOW. Id tempted to ask for contact information. Go over him immediately, this is your future. Its not his. If you get kicked out in boot camp thats on you, not him. He still gets his quota points I believe.  Regardless, dont join if you are questionable.
edit: ESPECIALLY with an illness that requires a waiver and is de - nuking. If it was something small like a broken hand, that would be one thing... you should be fine in the long run, but dont dont dont join with this on your head.

[Gamecock]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

A recruiter who advocates lying or ommission of the truth should be removed from their job immediately and subsequently taken to CO's mast.

You should report him.

[aschaefer]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

A recruiter who advocates lying or ommission of the truth should be removed from their job immediately and subsequently taken to CO's mast.

You should report him.

I really think the part of the questionnaire at MEPS ("Has your recruiter at any time instructed you to give any false information or withhold information?" something along that effect..) is a joke. Who would actually say that, especially at the point where they ask you that? If I remember correctly, the question is near the end of the process and although I didn't lie, I would have a hard time believing anyone would answer "yes" to that question so late into the process.

[Cycoticpenguin]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

A recruiter who advocates lying or ommission of the truth should be removed from their job immediately and subsequently taken to CO's mast.

You should report him.

Coercion aside, it is STILL the deppers choice to lie or not. This guy wants to be a nuke, so hopefully he is smart enough to do the right thing.

to the OP -> If you wait until the moment of truth, you have STILL committed perjury, and I don't think you will be seeing to much navy time in your future.

[co60slr]

Coercion aside, it is STILL the deppers choice to lie or not. This guy wants to be a nuke, so hopefully he is smart enough to do the right thing.

to the OP -> If you wait until the moment of truth, you have STILL committed perjury, and I don't think you will be seeing to much navy time in your future.

First, there's not enough information in this thread to assert that someone committed "perjury" (see definition).

Second, what use is there in telling some concerned DEPPER that he won't be "seeing too much navy time in your future"?   It sounds like he's rolled his dice and it's up to his recruiter and the MEPS process to sort it out.   Everything is case-by-case.

[Cycoticpenguin]

First, there's not enough information in this thread to assert that someone committed "perjury" (see definition).

Second, what use is there in telling some concerned DEPPER that he won't be "seeing too much navy time in your future"?   It sounds like he's rolled his dice and it's up to his recruiter and the MEPS process to sort it out.   Everything is case-by-case.

"Perjury, also known as forswearing, is the willful act of swearing a false oath or affirmation to tell the truth, whether spoken or in writing."

I would consider this perjury as he is lying about a mental condition which would prevent his enlistment without proper waivers. I am in no means saying he is going to do this, and I wish nothing but the best for him. I just want him to understand that even though his recruiter told him to lie it is STILL his choice to lie about it. It all rests on him. Now for that S.O.B. recruiter.....  I'll be civil.

[co60slr]

"Perjury is the willful act of swearing a false oath or affirmation to tell the truth, whether spoken or in writing."

I would consider this perjury as he is lying about a mental condition which would prevent his enlistment without proper waivers. I am in no means saying he is going to do this, and I wish nothing but the best for him. I just want him to understand that even though his recruiter told him to lie it is STILL his choice to lie about it. It all rests on him. Now for that S.O.B. recruiter.....  I'll be civil.

Prove it.

[Cycoticpenguin]

Prove it.

Easy.
http://www.bupers.navy.mil/ReferenceLibrary/MILPERSMAN/1000MilitaryPersonnel/1900Separation/1900_1910_299/1910_134.htm

"If fraudulent enlistment is detected immediately after the swearing-in ceremony at Military Entrance Processing Station (MEPS), MEPS commander will revoke any travel orders and transfer member temporary duty (TEMDU) to sponsoring Navy Recruiting District (NAVCRUITDIST).  NAVCRUITDIST will process member using above procedures."

Best case scenario -> General Discharge, most likely OTH.

EDIT: Im truly not trying to pick a fight with you. I honestly just want the OP to know that if he signs the dotted line saying all is true, then he goes and says otherwise, that's his fault....

[co60slr]

Easy.
http://www.bupers.navy.mil/ReferenceLibrary/MILPERSMAN/1000MilitaryPersonnel/1900Separation/1900_1910_299/1910_134.htm

"If fraudulent enlistment is detected immediately after the swearing-in ceremony at Military Entrance Processing Station (MEPS), MEPS commander will revoke any travel orders and transfer member temporary duty (TEMDU) to sponsoring Navy Recruiting District (NAVCRUITDIST).  NAVCRUITDIST will process member using above procedures."

Best case scenario -> General Discharge, most likely OTH.

EDIT: Im truly not trying to pick a fight with you. I honestly just want the OP to know that if he signs the dotted line saying all is true, then he goes and says otherwise, that's his fault....

Prove he committed purjury.  You can't.  They can't.  There is no argument.  You can make accusations though from your home computer hundreds of miles away from the OP, of whom I assume you don't know at all.

[Cycoticpenguin]

Prove he committed purjury.  You can't.  They can't.  There is no argument.  You can make accusations though from your home computer hundreds of miles away from the OP, of whom I assume you don't know at all.

If he waits until the moment of truth he is admitting guilt on his own accord. He will sign a sheet of paper saying "to the best of my knowledge this statement is accurate" blah blah. Like I said, im not trying to pick a fight. If you are comfortable letting this guy throw his naal career out the window, then so be it. Not sure why you are trying to battle this out man, im only trying to help

[co60slr]

If he waits until the moment of truth he is admitting guilt on his own accord. He will sign a sheet of paper saying "to the best of my knowledge this statement is accurate" blah blah. Like I said, im not trying to pick a fight. If you are comfortable letting this guy throw his naal career out the window, then so be it. Not sure why you are trying to battle this out man, im only trying to help

His career is up to him and his recruiter...not any of us here.   I was comfortable with the thread being complete after post #3.   I reacted when you informed the OP that "he would be convicted of perjury" and "discharged".   I'm sure that none of us here have the full story to make sure a positive statement.  Also, I've listened to "recruiting stories" for 30 years...there's nothing new with this one and none of it surprised me.

Are we trying to assume that all recruits and recruiters have 100% integrity?   Nope...heard those stories too.   Since I believe that anyone that has done a tour in the Navy has heard guys talking about their "experimental drug use waivers" with a smile, let's not sit here and pretend this topic is black and white and guys are being court-martialed and discharged for perjury every day.   At best, I've seen security clearances denied and people denuked...straight to paint chipper careers.  I've never heard of a boot camp recruit being court-martialed for not being 100% correct on his reporting of an "anxiety" issue.  So, have you...or are you just spit-balling your sea-lawyering opinion to the OP?

Also, are you trying to assume, assert, and report to our young OP that all active-duty nukes have 100% integrity?   

This is where the story stops and my participation ends, but I'll leave our 1000+ future readers to ponder this:

At some point in your nuclear career, your integrity is going to be challenged.  Regardless of what you're told to do, not do, what others around you are doing, etc that simple fact is:  "Once you give your Integrity away, you can never get it back".  The successful people learn how to navigate those unfortunate waters.  So, this thread is just the beginning for him.  My hope is that he doesn't end up in an integrity story in the Navy Times.  Otherwise, this trivial "anxiety" issue won't be his last Integrity check.

In any event, and with any story the process works...eventually.   Sometimes not in the timeline we'd like, but if the OP plans on giving his integrity away and testing the Nuclear Navy, the Nuclear Navy will eventually grant him his wish to be de-nuked.   I'm guessing he'll let this one go as his recruiter has so ill-advised.  In comparison with other events, I'm not personally too concerned with the details of this case.  However, I know the process works and that if he continues to test it, it'll respond perfectly.  So instead of painting rainbows and unicorns of Navy life as a "Garden of Eden", I present the facts.   It happens.  Don't let it happen to you.  Be ready to deal with it.

If he truly has a disqualifying "anxiety issue", it'll present itself early enough for the appropriate authority to react.   

[shocker]

I'm going to add my 2-cents here as a nuke fresh out of Great Lakes.  Sorry for the length in advance.  I had a lot of time over the last 2 months to think about this topic :-)

Most recruits will be in a similar boat of a recruiter leading them to believe something "isn't important" or "doesn't matter".  Many of those recruits will keep quiet through MEPS, Moment of Truth, and through special physicals and any other "opportunity" to fully disclose information.  Some of those recruits will still make it through, and will still be able to get their clearance and continue their career in the Navy.  Some of those recruits will have their past surface on its own and be shown the door.  An RDC was shocked by how many he lost from his division for lying about Asthma - something that is waiverable even for nukes.

Personally, during the 7 days between taking the ASVAB and first learning about the Nuke program to signing the enlistment contract, I mixed the security clearance time window with the enlistment questionaire.  This lead to me saying I had never smoked Marijuana at MEPS even though I had used it in high school.  As I got further into my DEP process (10 months) and learned more about MEPS, enlistment, etc.  I realized not only the mistake I had made, but also with the gloom and doom responses on the forum the possible severity of the consequences.  That knowledge was extremely troubling.  I was torn between speaking up, and losing an opportunity that I knew was the best I could hope for when I was at rock bottom, and losing my integrity and trustworthiness which are two qualities I consider most important in my life.

The last month - and especially the last week - before shipping out were filled with constant angst.  I didn't want to speak up, get my recruiters in trouble (who did help me in every possible way throughout my time in DEP), and at best be pushed back further while a waiver went through, and at worst be kicked out before I even got in.  But at the same time I didn't want to keep quiet about something so small and let it become a huge problem later on due to the breach of trust.

I kept quiet through MEPS, and got on a plane to Chicago.  I kept quiet through Moment of Truth - I'd heard horror stories about this already and was certain that was the easiest way to go home.  After the Moment of Truth the nukes were pulled aside and we had another "Moment of Truth" with the Nuclear Advisors (forget if thats exactly what they're called) which happened to be two Master Chiefs.  After battling with myself for the previous 48+ hours I finally allowed my inner voice to take over.  I made a committment at that time to disclose anything and everything that may have been ommited, glossed over, or I had been told was "unimportant."  At that moment I decided that I would rather be kicked out of the Navy for telling the truth, than be kicked out for lying. From that point on was hell.  I filled out a waiver request for the marijuana, told a few stories that had the Master Chief's eyebrows raised quite a few times but were verified to not require waivers or documentation, and was on my way.  I was still wondering if that waiver request was going anywhere but Legal, and if I was going anywhere but home.

A week or so later, nukes have special physicals.  That means after all the shots, pokes, and prods that you normally get in boot camp, you get to go back and get some more.  During the brief the Corpsman gave an example that jogged my memory of being knocked unconscious 15 years earlier.   I had honestly forgotten about the event as it was relatively minor, and happened when I was so young.  I disclosed the discrepancy.  I also disclosed the accident I had been in a few months before enlisting and was unsure if I had actually been diagnosed with something or not.  Total honesty was what I had pledged to myself, so I was sticking to it.  That lead to a less-than-pleasant experience where Article 83 was once again brought to my attention, and another few nights of little sleep during an already stressful period of boot camp.

A few more weeks down the line and I'm choosing my rate for the Nuclear program.  At the end of the brief my name is called, "Your waiver has been approved."  A very good day.  A few more weeks down the line, I'm graduating and heading to SC, the records were located, documented, and it was verified that I was still fit for full duty.  Another very good day.

Now I dont want everyone to think they can do the same thing.  There was a change in command of the Nuclear Advisors office while I was there, and I believe there will be another one shortly (Master Chiefs are usually on their way to retirement...) so the same opportunity may not be available.  However, I know people who came clean at MEPS, and still joined the Navy.  I know people who came clean at Moment of Truth, and were still with us at graduation.  I know I came clean, and I'm still in the Navy.  So there is a chance to ensure your documentation is correct, and accurate without death and destruction.  Is it a good chance?  I don't know, I may have been lucky.  But if I had it to do all over again I would have saved myself a ton of restless nights and gotten the proper documentation sooner, rather than later.  It's not worth any additional stress when you go to boot camp, and it's not worth finding out that you love being in the Navy and want to continue your career, only to have a skeleton pop out and revoke your clearance 6, 10, or 15 years down the line.

[Cycoticpenguin]

At that moment I decided that I would rather be kicked out of the Navy for telling the truth, than be kicked out for lying.

Welcome to the staple of your nuclear career. Lengthy but poignant essay, and glad everything worked out for you.

to you sir. Study hard!