Japan's Nukes Following Earthquake

[STGN]

It seems to me that information coming from the TEPCO news releases and the media/government is pretty conflicting.  Makes me wonder if the plant and officials are talking.  I could see communications issues after such an event. 

[DHHII]

Somewhat off topic...

But what are the ramifications, if any, back here in the U.S. of the nuclear events of this weekend in Japan? Will there be a knee-jerk reaction from the (non-NRC) feds?

It won't be a pretty picture you can be sure of that.  Also I would imagine that there will be a bit of E-plan review with an eye on earthquakes especially for those in quake prone zones.

[Cycoticpenguin]

I know the stratfor was a bit much, especially with the chernobyl refs. They are written by people on scene, not a news room in chicago. They are probably just as confused as we are. Just wanted y'all to see the videos anyway.





Now do we have status report on the filling? Did they start it yet?

[Xenon_Free]

Well, here goes my two cents.  At one point the water level in the core dropped to about 1.5 feet below top of active fuel (according to bbc news site I believe), not sure how long they were there.  Relief valves, Iso condensers, coupled with RCIC and any other available systems removed heat initially then were unable to (100 C).  Not just removing heat any relief valve operations would have moved any H2 produced in the core into the drywell.  Yes the drywell is inerted but H2 still accumulates and if there is some fuel damage, which seems probable for lots of reasons, continued H2 production even AFTER filling above top of active fuel could have occurred.  Anyway, all this H2 combined with exceeding the design pressure of containment (based on another report that drywell pressure had exceeded 87 pounds - they gave it in bars but you get the idea)  causes H2 to leak out into the reactor building through pump seals, drywell head, and any other minute crack or crevice.  Add to that the fact they were venting the drywell - which would allow a H2 buildiup in the duct work or the RB depending on method used.   No ventilation in the Reactor Building due to no power allows the H2 to collect at the highest point - the refuel floor.  This is a huge volume that could accommodate a lot of H2 over several hours.  Another earthquake/aftershock and a spark on the refuel floor due to metal on metal or whatever and... you get the horrific video.  Yes, I agree with Mike, the refuel floor almost certainly would have had blowout panels, the video sure implies it.  
Well, that's my theory - as good as any other conjecture I suppose.  XF

[DDMurray]

http://www.nei.org/newsandevents/information-on-the-japanese-earthquake-and-reactors-in-that-region

[RRhoads]

incredible!
wait 11 sec into video.

[TWillis]

From IAEA. Tends to make you think they breeched fuel.
http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/tsunamiupdate01.html

[tr]

Many thanks to those who started and contributed to this thread.  Accurate information is nearly impossible to find and the MSM has been horrible.  Thanks to this thread, I followed the TEPCO press link and most recently found this:

Press Release (Mar 12,2011)
Plant Status of Fukushima Daini Nuclear Power Station (as of 8pm March 12th)

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11031230-e.html

Which states among other things that:
" - Offsite power is available "
  and
"- Injection of water into the reactor is done by Make-up Water Condensate
System."

This strikes me as great news!!  I'm surprised this board hasn't lit up!

Sadly, they also report the fatality of a crane operator.

This is the Daini plant, the Daiichi plant is the one where they had the explosion and are pumping borated seawater into containment.

[tr]

It looks like things are still bad at Daiichi Unit 3, per the latest TEPCO press release (http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/):

High Pressure Coolant Injection System of Unit 3 automatically stopped.
We endeavored to restart the Reactor Core Isolation Cooling System but
failed. Also, we could not confirm the water inflow of Emergency Core
Cooling System. As such, we decided at 5.10AM, Mar 12, and we reported
and/or noticed the government agencies concerned to apply the clause 1 of
the Article 15 of the Radiation Disaster Measure at 5:58AM, Mar 13.
In order to fully secure safety, we operated the vent valve to reduce the
pressure of the reactor containment vessels (partial release of air
containing radioactive materials) and completed the procedure at 8:41AM,
Mar 13,

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/

[tr]

Close up of the blown out secondary containment at Daiichi 1

[Cycoticpenguin]

Close up of the blown out secondary containment at Daiichi 1

testament to design engineering right there. Blown apart building, 8.9 earthquake, all that crap and that reactor vessel is still tickin. amazing...

[Bigchris]

"(3) Falsifications in Reactor Containment Leakage Rate Test and the Administrative Measure Taken

Apart from the case mentioned above, it was revealed in October 2002 that, at the periodic inspections in 1991 and 1992 of the Unit 1 of the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station attended by inspectors of regulatory body, the results of reactor containment leak rate tests were falsified by Tokyo Electric Power Co. Inc., in order to show intentionally low leak rate." 1

"1.Preparation of the Report
This report was produced in compliance with the Article 5 of the Convention on Nuclear Safety. This report was prepared by the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency (hereinafter referred to as
"NISA") in consultation with the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Subcommittee of the Advisory Committee for Natural Resources and Energy for the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry, with
the support of an incorporated administrative agency Japan Nuclear Energy Safety Organization , (hereinafter referred to as "JNES"), and the cooperation of Japan Nuclear Cycle Development Institute
and the Federation of Electric Power Companies of Japan. This report was reviewed also by other relevant governmental organizations. Views of the Nuclear Safety Commission (hereinafter referred to
as "the NSC") were reflected to this report." 2

1.http://www.meti.go.jp/english/report/downloadfiles/NISAreport3e.pdf 
2. Ibid

[Already Gone]

Well, here goes my two cents.  At one point the water level in the core dropped to about 1.5 feet below top of active fuel (according to bbc news site I believe), not sure how long they were there.  Relief valves, Iso condensers, coupled with RCIC and any other available systems removed heat initially then were unable to (100 C).  Not just removing heat any relief valve operations would have moved any H2 produced in the core into the drywell.  Yes the drywell is inerted but H2 still accumulates and if there is some fuel damage, which seems probable for lots of reasons, continued H2 production even AFTER filling above top of active fuel could have occurred.  Anyway, all this H2 combined with exceeding the design pressure of containment (based on another report that drywell pressure had exceeded 87 pounds - they gave it in bars but you get the idea)  causes H2 to leak out into the reactor building through pump seals, drywell head, and any other minute crack or crevice.  Add to that the fact they were venting the drywell - which would allow a H2 buildiup in the duct work or the RB depending on method used.   No ventilation in the Reactor Building due to no power allows the H2 to collect at the highest point - the refuel floor.  This is a huge volume that could accommodate a lot of H2 over several hours.  Another earthquake/aftershock and a spark on the refuel floor due to metal on metal or whatever and... you get the horrific video.  Yes, I agree with Mike, the refuel floor almost certainly would have had blowout panels, the video sure implies it.  
Well, that's my theory - as good as any other conjecture I suppose.  XF

Since I could not see a fireball in any video, my guess would be that the venting into the RB without ventilation, simply caused a pressure explosion.  Even reinforced concrete will not stand up to more than a few psi - especially after having just been subjected to an 8.9 earthquake.  The "smoke" in the video didn't rise, which helped me along the way to thinking that it was concrete dust and not smoke.  A Hydrogen explosion wouldn't have produced any smoke, but there would have been a fireball.  There was no steam venting after the explosion either.  I am only offering my theory, like you, but I think ti was just an overpressurization of the RB.  Considering that the radiation levels actually dropped after the blast, which indicates that there was a significant buildup of gas that was suddenly released, I think my theory makes sense.  Anyone else?

[Already Gone]

http://www.nei.org/resourcesandstats/documentlibrary/protectingtheenvironment/factsheet/events-at-the-fukushima-daiichi-nuclear-power-plant-in-japan-

According the the link above, there WAS Hydrogen buildup in the RB, which was the cause of the explosion, but since it is in the RB and not the core, the explosion did not affect the RPV integrity.

<edit>  While watching the video in slow motion, I could see a very brief flash at the beginning of the blast which would be characteristic of a rapidly burning gas.  If you don't look for it, you'll miss it.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=video&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CDIQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dkjx-JlwYtyE&rct=j&q=fukushima&ei=bO58TaH1CqSx0QHa_KzpAw&usg=AFQjCNHeZm457VjjsSg7Kyy61I-YMonQ6Q&sig2=XaZ9HSCMJoatOgxkcYSNig&cad=rja

[TWillis]

Of some interest...
http://www.nisa.meti.go.jp/english/files/en20110313-3.pdf

[PaganPrincess]

Hey, I'm going to ask a dumb question here.  Why can't we hook the USN boat up shoreside & give them some power to get their reactors cooled?

[Neutron Whisperer]

Three videos...

1.  http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/13/japan.nuclear.reactors/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1

An explosion caused by hydrogen buildup Saturday blew the roof off a concrete building housing the plant's No. 1 reactor, but the reactor and its containment system were not damaged in the explosion. Officials say the No. 3 reactor would also likely withstand a similar blast, noting that workers had already released gas from the building to try to prevent an explosion.

2. http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2011/03/13/sotu.acton.intv.3.13.cnn?iref=allsearch

Dr. James Acton says a Chernobyl-like explosion at one of Japan's nuclear energy plants is "unbelievably unlikely."

3. http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2011/03/13/myers.meltdown.explainer.cnn?iref=allsearch

Can I punch this guy?

[JustinHEMI05]

It is irresponsible reporting like that, that fuels hysteria.

[thenuttyneutron]

Three videos...

1.  http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/13/japan.nuclear.reactors/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1


2. http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2011/03/13/sotu.acton.intv.3.13.cnn?iref=allsearch

3. http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2011/03/13/myers.meltdown.explainer.cnn?iref=allsearch

Can I punch this guy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af-41E5mndk

Go to 4:48.  There is so much fear and bad information out there.  I wish we could get a well composed guy on TV that could both be entertaining and explain what is really going on correctly in layman's terms.

I am not sure if I am more upset at seeing Bill Nye talking or the shame that I used to watch him as kid growing up.  I think his rat friend may have been the guy to be listening to the entire time.

What Mr. Wizard would say about all of this?

[JustinHEMI05]

Anyone else having trouble connecting to the TEPCO press release site?

[drayer54]

Anyone else having trouble connecting to the TEPCO press release site?

Justin,
Just tried it and found it to be slow as could be, but working.

[JustinHEMI05]

Yep appears to be fine now, thanks.

[PJMcG]

Hey, I'm going to ask a dumb question here.  Why can't we hook the USN boat up shoreside & give them some power to get their reactors cooled?

Well first is the obvious mooring problem.  Then there is the 'extended' shore power cable issue.  Finally, I took a quick look around and it seems that there are regions of Japan that are 50 Hz and others that are 60 Hz.

[tr]

The International Atomic Energy Agency said Sunday evening that Japan had informed it that an emergency had been declared at the nearby Onagawa power plant because excessive radiation had been detected outside the plant.  Power company officials later said, however, that all three reactors at Onagawa had been safely shut down and were under control and that wind had blown the radiation there from the Fukushima plant.

[Martyc4]

It reminds me of the voracious media frenzy at TMI.  They're filling print, air and web 24/7 now and it is worse.  Any "expert" or person willing to be quoted, will be and the facts won't be verified.   Everyone will have something to say, including us nukes, and we won't know the facts.  Patience and time will reveal the story, but by then it won't matter.  Perception will have become reality.