prototype... filter or pump?

[Cycoticpenguin]

week 16 of sc 5sg proto this place is definitely a pump, if it was a filter i would have been gone in NFAS

Obvious is obvious.

[Quinton]

As a former instructor of the S8G prototype, in lovely Ballston Spa NY, I would have to say that the system is most definately a pump.  It was hard for us to even propose that we get rid of any of the dumb kids, let alone ones that somehow managed to survive to week 24.  As an example -
The legend of the Soup Pirate.
So, there I was, it was a cold, harsh winter, and the snow storms managed to knock out the power.  A student that ended up in my section decided that during the cold, she wanted to warm up with a nice warm can of soup.  Now, normal people take the soup out of the can when they heat up their soup... not the Soup Pirate.  She slapped that can of warm delicious broth on the stovetop and turned it on.  A few minutes later, Soup Pirate decided it was warm enough and turned the stove off.  Now, comes the tricky part.  Opening the can of soup.
Yep - you guessed it.  IN THE FACE!!!  The scalding hot soup expelled from the canister into her face and gave he second degree burns to her eyelid, and the good ol' clinic gave her a complimentary eye patch.

She is now a qualified member of the Surface Fleet.....

[MacGyver]

As a former instructor of the S8G prototype, in lovely Ballston Spa NY, I would have to say that the system is most definately a pump.  It was hard for us to even propose that we get rid of any of the dumb kids, let alone ones that somehow managed to survive to week 24.  As an example -
The legend of the Soup Pirate.
So, there I was, it was a cold, harsh winter, and the snow storms managed to knock out the power.  A student that ended up in my section decided that during the cold, she wanted to warm up with a nice warm can of soup.  Now, normal people take the soup out of the can when they heat up their soup... not the Soup Pirate.  She slapped that can of warm delicious broth on the stovetop and turned it on.  A few minutes later, Soup Pirate decided it was warm enough and turned the stove off.  Now, comes the tricky part.  Opening the can of soup.
Yep - you guessed it.  IN THE FACE!!!  The scalding hot soup expelled from the canister into her face and gave he second degree burns to her eyelid, and the good ol' clinic gave her a complimentary eye patch.

She is now a qualified member of the Surface Fleet.....

Patiently awaiting a new warning label .. 

[Cycoticpenguin]

Im curious what hiring managers think when they read these kinds of threads...

[MacGyver]

Im curious what hiring managers think when they read these kinds of threads...

They do not need these threads to determine the worth of an ex-navy nuke.  They hire them and see their results in their training program.

As a point of reference a particular company that hires ex-nav-nukes has seen them just barely make it through the program whereas the non-nav-nukes do a better job in training.  I would also add the non-nav-nukes have a better attitude about 50% of the time.  A total plus for off the street non-nav-nukes.

These threads just advertise the demise of a once guaranteed good product to the rest of the world.

YMWV

[Higgs]

From my experience, the non-hackers and slack asses won't typically make it through an well conducted interview anyway. Do some slip through? Yes, but like Mac alluded to, they will be weeded out eventually. One thing is for certain, commercial ops ain't pumping anyone through anything.

[HydroDave63]

From my experience, the non-hackers and slack asses won't typically make it through an well conducted interview anyway. Do some slip through? Yes, but like Mac alluded to, they will be weeded out eventually. One thing is for certain, commercial ops ain't pumping anyone through anything.

I should start a betting pool sometime after 2015, when the Naval Nuclear Program (after recovering from the "Laurel and Hardy" (CJCS/CNO) nubification of the program) flips 180, raises initial enlistment age for Navy nukes, and starts poaching NLOs from the civilian industry in order to have recruits that actually know something nuclear, can pass a piss test and a POSS test and know how to handle rotating shifts.

Just sayin'   

[Marlin]

They do not need these threads to determine the worth of an ex-navy nuke.  They hire them and see their results in their training program.

As a point of reference a particular company that hires ex-nav-nukes has seen them just barely make it through the program whereas the non-nav-nukes do a better job in training.  I would also add the non-nav-nukes have a better attitude about 50% of the time.  A total plus for off the street non-nav-nukes.

These threads just advertise the demise of a once guaranteed good product to the rest of the world.

YMWV

  Very sad, when I got out Navy Nukes were in great demand if they are no longer in that category it's a little like seeing a SEAL with a muffin top to me.

[Sun Dog]

I would also add the non-nav-nukes have a better attitude about 50% of the time.  A total plus for off the street non-nav-nukes.

If 50% have a better attitude than 50% must have the same attitude, a worse attitude, or no attitude.   Seems like a push rather than a total plus.

[MacGyver]

What I meant was that from my experience for every nav-nuke that had a good attitude you could find that number plus an additional 50% (i.e. more) that had a equal too or better attitude (re: non-nav-nukes).  Mac

[730SMAG]

What I meant was that from my experience for every nav-nuke that had a good attitude you could find that number plus an additional 50% (i.e. more) that had a equal too or better attitude (re: non-nav-nukes).  Mac

I think that the poor attitude comes from the fact that the Nuclear Navy tends to dick people over into a certain level of grudging dissatisfaction and marginal ability to work.  I know that when I reported onboard the Hate My Job, I was enthusiastic about things and gung-ho about qualifying and learning my field.

A year and a half of the shipyard later, I was counting down the days to my EAOS, because every day was an adventure in how BOHICA could be applied to a department with effectively zero morale who only did their jobs because they still craved a little self-pride and not even the CoC could destroy everyone's will to at least function.

I mean, yes, I take a decent chunk of that on as a personal responsibility for my own attitude, but it wouldn't have taken too much effort to ensure that the department wasn't filled with people who were re-enlisting for orders off the boat, doing six-and-out, or staying in because they were 10+ already and they could "endure just a few more years until rotation." 


Anyway, that's what I see as why the attitudes of Navy Nukes tend towards "bad attitudes," we get broken these days.  There's very little job satisfaction, we don't really have much incentive to be happy, and most of us look forward to getting the hell away from the boat and forgetting it as soon as possible.

[MacGyver]

I think I have confused you. Yes, I am sure that is true for all nav-nuke generations. But, this attitude issue is or was not even a blip on the radar with the pre'1995 (ish) nav-nukes. It is a major problem with the post'1995 (ish) nav-nukes. It has caught or training departments attention. And not in a good way.  Mac

[730SMAG]

I think I have confused you. Yes, I am sure that is true for all nav-nuke generations. But, this attitude issue is or was not even a blip on the radar with the pre'1995 (ish) nav-nukes. It is a major problem with the post'1995 (ish) nav-nukes. It has caught or training departments attention. And not in a good way.  Mac

Hrm.  Maybe you have confused me; I can't really think of anything that would have a definite turning point like that, unless it's a generational thing - I know that my generation, the post 9/11 one - tends to be more open and upfront about our complaints and attitudes than older ones.  Or I might be talking out my butt and performing rectal data extraction; could someone else weigh in on this?

[HydroDave63]

I think I have confused you. Yes, I am sure that is true for all nav-nuke generations. But, this attitude issue is or was not even a blip on the radar with the pre'1995 (ish) nav-nukes. It is a major problem with the post'1995 (ish) nav-nukes. It has caught or training departments attention. And not in a good way.  Mac

I have a theory on that early/mid-90s point of inflection, only a theory: In that time frame, only one new nuclear plant went commercial, and several nuclear facilities either halted future hiring that had been in pipeline (a short-lived attempt to staff up for Browns Ferry, some tentative plans for restarting small-quantity production at Rocky Flats) or outright reductions in force at several utilities looking to reduce staffing costs due to rising costs of corporate bonds/lines of credit. In other words, the 6-and-out Non-Leakage probablity went way up due to lack of gravy nuclear jobs on the outside. High operatnig tempo in a shrinking fleet certainly didn't help.

[Cycoticpenguin]

I think that the poor attitude comes from the fact that the Nuclear Navy tends to dick people over into a certain level of grudging dissatisfaction and marginal ability to work.  I know that when I reported onboard the Hate My Job, I was enthusiastic about things and gung-ho about qualifying and learning my field.

I dunno dude. There was a LOT of brainwashing when I was in. Constantly told "we're the best of the best of the best", and that employers would be BEGGING us for jobs when we got out. Perhaps the "attitude" problem stems from that more so then being screwed over? We were consistently told that civ plants hire navy nukes to a fault, didnt matter how you acted, you were getting in!  Obviously not true, at least not any more. My plant didnt even hire one an ex navy nuke that interviewed because he had a poor attitude during his interview. Being on the outside looking in now, barring careerists that were getting out, it suprised me how painfully ignorant we all were about the civilian process. Its a common reverse mentality that the Nav was the "major leagues" and civ life was "easy" when in reality, its the other way around, correct?

Were you "old timers" (pre 95' as per mac's statement) "brainwashed" like we were?

[Higgs]

Yeah I remember that brainwashing and I am 1998 vintage navy nuke. "They" also told us that civilian nukes looked to the NNPP for its standards. Of course, now I know just how absurd that is. I also realized quickly that those saying those sorts of thing never worked in the commercial world and were therefore talking out their arses. Then when I started thinking about EAOS, I talked to an Entergy shift manager that gave me some perspective when he said "Navy nukes need to realize that no one is standing outside that gate waiting to hand you a 6 figure job." I think that is the belief quite a number of Navy nukes hold, hence the attitudes some are experiencing.

All of that said, whether now or 20 years ago, hard workers and people with their sh*t all in one sock can get a job and be successful in this industry. The creme of the crop will still rise to the top. Do we (commercial nukes) have to do some more skimming now than in the past? Perhaps, but I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing.

[RDTroja]

Were you "old timers" (pre 95' as per mac's statement) "brainwashed" like we were?

Speaking from the point of view of a commercial-bred RP watching decades worth of ex-Navy Nukes on their first outages... yes. But for most of them it didn't last long when confronted by reality.

[Marlin]

   How about pre-1985 in the late 70's there wasn't a lot of influx yet but it was starting. I saw a lot of changes toward the Navy way of doing things including hiring ex-Navy admirals to honcho troubled plants. It did not take long to saturate and adapt to a middle ground, by the 90s Navy influence was a "been there done that".

[OldHP]

How about pre-1985 in the late 70's there wasn't a lot of influx yet but it was starting. I saw a lot of changes toward the Navy way of doing things including hiring ex-Navy admirals to honcho troubled plants. It did not take long to saturate and adapt to a middle ground, by the 90s Navy influence was a "been there done that". 

Attitudes were always there, but not as previlant - I interviewed a guy - LELT (74 -75 timeframe) that actually said, "I put out 8 years in the Navy, you commercial guys owe me a job"!  Another plant hired him and he failed in the initial training phase!

The creation/formation of INPO (post-TMI) 'with a heavy Navy influence', created a demand for NNPP experience; however, the commercial industry adapted to the 'INPO Standards' and found out quickly that they could train locals to do the task at hand (all areas) with less cost and risk!

JMO   

[Cycoticpenguin]

Oldhp, you were interviewing people 12 years before I was born :p

[HydroDave63]

Oldhp, you were interviewing people 12 years before I was born :p

Just means he was helping to set y'all up for success...let's see if Gen Whine can keep those high standards

[Marlin]

The creation/formation of INPO (post-TMI) 'with a heavy Navy influence', created a demand for NNPP experience; however, the commercial industry adapted to the 'INPO Standards' and found out quickly that they could train locals to do the task at hand (all areas) with less cost and risk!

JMO   

I have to agree with that, INPO was staffed by a lot of "Ring Knockers". But then INPO and Navy influence brought not just the people but the programs (including training) to a different level, there was a coal burner mentality that was common in Nukes before then.

[OldHP]

I have to agree with that, INPO was staffed by a lot of "Ring Knockers". But then INPO and Navy influence brought not just the people but the programs (including training) to a different level, there was a coal burner mentality that was common in Nukes before then.

Big yeah, particularly training!  When a certain SE Utility opened their training center in the 70s the folks who staffed it were the folks that couldn't cut it in the plants (as always with a few exceptions).  Rather than let someone go because they couldn't do the job, the attitude was 'well let's see if the TC has a place for him/her'!  Correct, even among the real nukes the attitude was 'well we hired this person we have an obligation'!

It was more obvious north of the mason-dixon, at one time the U-1 TD at a particular plant had cubicles for those relieved from duty in the plant, including folks caught asleep at the wheel, but not fired!

[Cleaver6]

Greetings,

I've been reading through posts on here with great interest because my son is interested in joining the Navy. He originally wanted to become a corpsman. However, due to several factors, among them: there would be a long waiting list, my wife's strong objection to his being attached to a Marine combat unit, the high score he recorded on the little "pre-Asvab" test they give in the recruiter's office, he's now looking at becoming a nuke.

Anyway, that's why I'm here.

As to the morale and attitude issue, please know that in my industry, semiconductor manufacturing, we still look very favorably upon resumes of former Navy nukes. Other than the almost certainty that they are quirky, we know their breadth of knowledge makes them good candidates to be equipment maintenance technicians in our fabs.

[RDTroja]

Greetings,

I've been reading through posts on here with great interest because my son is interested in joining the Navy. He originally wanted to become a corpsman. However, due to several factors, among them: there would be a long waiting list, my wife's strong objection to his being attached to a Marine combat unit, the high score he recorded on the little "pre-Asvab" test they give in the recruiter's office, he's now looking at becoming a nuke.

Anyway, that's why I'm here.

As to the morale and attitude issue, please know that in my industry, semiconductor manufacturing, we still look very favorably upon resumes of former Navy nukes. Other than the almost certainty that they are quirky, we know their breadth of knowledge makes them good candidates to be equipment maintenance technicians in our fabs.

Quirky... I like that. Very polite.