HELP! Trapped at NNPTC, I want out!

[Already Gone]

Another name for that program is Absent Without Leave (AWOL).  Every command has a limited geographical area for recall.  If you leave that area, you must have permission from your command.
So, if you fly home on Friday night with leave papers that are not effective until Monday, you are AWOL.  If the ship has a recall, you will be busted.  They can also tack on what are known as "Lesser Included Charges" such as; filing a false official document, missing ship's movement, failure to follow a lawful order (they tack that one on to everything because you are always subject to some order or another).

"Sucking up" to officers only makes you a suck-up.  Everyone else will notice it and they will treat you accordingly.  If your Chief or LPO thinks you are going over his head, he'll screw you with your pants on.  Chances are that one of those weekend days was your duty day.  If you were not on board for duty on that day, and your leave papers show that you were only on leave from monday through Friday, you might as well take all your uniforms to the tailor to get those chevrons removed in advance.  You might get some favors from a junior officer or two for being an ass-kisser, but they will forget they ever knew you when you're standing in front of the green table.   

Before you try pulling a fast one, read your command's standing orders.  Find out how far away you can go on liberty without signed leave papers.  Don't exceed that limit.

As far as putting them on the receiving end goes, that happens every payday.  It may not be the best paycheck in the world, but it's the one you agreed to accept.

[GARYGWOODJR]

But I chose to be an MM. So my idea was to finish A school and try and get as high of a GPA as possible and tell them that I don't want to be in the program anymore. I just want my MGIB benefits, do my 4 years as an MM in the fleet, and get a degree in Physical Therapy. As you can tell the career I want has nothing to do with nuclear propulsion.

20 years ago I joined the Navy to be in the band.  As luck would have it I took the Nuke test and as they say, the rest is history.  (My recruiter told me I could switch to the band once I was in boot camp)  Meet your commitments and work on your degree while you are in the Navy.  Dont be one of those guys that makes life hard on everyone else because they are not happy with the descisions they made.  I have worked with several individuals that hated the Navy and what they did.  Some of them were my best workers and friends.  Nuclear power is nuclear power whether its under water or in the middle of a corn field in Illinois.  As previously said "its not for everyone".  If you want to talk offline about this send me an email.

MMCM/SS(ret)

[20 Years Gone]

Nuclear power is nuclear power whether its under water or in the middle of a corn field in Illinois.

I have to differ with you, Wingsfan.  I did my 20+, and now am in commercial power at a plant in middle of Kansas wheat fields.  While I tolerated well navy nuclear power, I love my job now.  Lets see.......

1.  Time and a half Overtime
2.  Double Time Sundays
3.  No duty days, vice 3 at worst, and a rare 5 section
4.  I never sortie when a hurricane is coming. (not that they come often to KS)
5.  When I get called in, I am compensated.
6.  I never have to buy cleaning supplies and toilet paper on the way to work because the ship has none.
7.  I am not responsible for cleaning bathrooms, or ordering my guys to chase dust bunnies in the XO's passageway when they get done with watch and maintenance.
8.  Extra pay for being on a fire response team.
9.  Extra pay for shift differential.
10.  Excellent medical, dental, and educational benefits. For example, glasses for dependents.
11.  No sea time, or 6 months away from my loved ones.
12.  I chose where I work
13.  Outages with tons of OT  Vice  shipyard periods with tons of OT, but no extra pay.
14. I work with great people...

   I'm not downing the Navy... It can't be helped being the way it is... When assigned to a ship, it is pretty inherent that you'll go out to sea, and I never bitched when in, and I don't bitch now.  If I have a fault at work, it's telling too many stories about things that I experienced in the navy, and I relate positive experiences.  No one likes someone who downs their last employer.
   I am saying, though, that my quality of life in commercial nuclear power/civilian status is heads and shoulders above my last 20 years, and that's to be expected.  They don't comment on the sacrifices of military life for nothin.

   ETC(SW) Ret

[GARYGWOODJR]

I may have simplified things a bit.  I am not part of the bargaining unit so I do not enjoy some of the same pleasures that you do.  So my job is similar to the Navy in many ways, but this is off topic.

[Already Gone]

Yeah, let's try to keep it on topic.  The gist is that this kid is looking at a good opportunity, and starting to get cold feet.  He is probably at the age where any commitment of more than six months is forever.

Like 20yg, a lot of us took that opportunity, and turned it into a well-paying career in commercial nuclear power.  A lot of other folks did their six and out, went into business with their family, opened a juice bar, or became physical therapists.  I personally know of two lawyers who were navy nukes with me.

The one common thing among them all is that they started as navy nukes.  If you're going to have to give the navy six years of your life, there aren't many better ways to do it than being nukes.  It may not be the career this kid wants for a lifetime, but he has made a choice.  Following through on his commitment has got to be the best road for him to take.  Jumping off this train can not possibly improve his quality of life, either now or in the future.

[GARYGWOODJR]

Beer Court is right on the mark (and on topic).   You have to make the decision that you feel is best for you.  You have to live with the consequences.  I think the common theme here is that you should seriously consider the long term affects of that decision.

[20 Years Gone]

OK,  back on topic. (Got a lil' preachy there, didn't I?)

   Beer Court is right... and I'll amplify it.  When you put in the effort that it takes to make it through NFAS, NPS, and Prototype, it changes you somewhat.  I know I came out feeling that if I had worked that hard in any academic endeavor before, (HS), I'd have full academic rides to colleges of my choice.  And armed with that new confidence and work ethic, which was also gained through fleet experience, I new I could conquer any college course I wanted to.  There's a good reason many ex-nukes do so well in future college courses.  Once you've been given knowledge via the fire hose, drinking through a straw comes pretty easy.

[glowingreen]

Been workin at a plant for 4 years since getting out of the nav. I did not like the nav but it was worth it to be making 110K as a non-licensed operator... and I work just about the minimum amount of OT permitted while being on shift

[Fermi2]

Been workin at a plant for 4 years since getting out of the nav. I did not like the nav but it was worth it to be making 110K as a non-licensed operator... and I work just about the minimum amount of OT permitted while being on shift

What plant is paying 110K for a NLO with minimum OT? I just got done calling every facility in the country and a lot of Plant Managers want that job.

Mike

[Chimera]

Wareaglesvf;

I know exactly how you feel.  When I went through the program (class 69-3), I was already an ET and had spent some time in the fleet before Nuc School started . . . and I didn't want it.  I had talked to a lot of the guys on the nuc subs attached to tender I was assigned to and I didn't like what I heard at all.  When I went to Mare Island for the first six months of school-house training, all I wanted was out of the program, but I wasn't willing to screw up my remaining time in the Navy by doing something stupid.  Then I went to prototype (S5G).  I don't know what happened, but once I got there and started actually using all that school-house stuff, it got interesting.  I actually started to enjoy it, albeit the hours were long and, as one of three "hot-runners", the work was not easy.  My time in the fleet on submarines wasn't a piece of cake either, but I actually did like what I was doing.  As a military brat, I always resented all that military stuff . . . like saluting and keeping my shirt sleeves rolled down . . . but the professional side was intriguing and made me learn.

Was that what I really wanted to do with my life back then?  I don't think so.  But the rewards in my later life have made that time well worth it.  Like Beer Court said, once you've gone through the Navy's nuc program, everything else is much easier.  All I can tell you is to hang in there, don't do anything stupid, learn all you can (more than just what they want to teach you), and have fun once this part of your life is over.  Heck, learn how to have fun with this part of your life too.  It will drive them crazy and make everything much more tolerable for you.  It is an adventure, but, like most adventures, it always looks better in the retelling, not in the doing.

[Roll Tide]

It is an adventure, but, like most adventures, it always looks better in the retelling, not in the doing.

How true that is!!! The Navy is quite an adventure for the Nukes.

[sefrick]

Let's see, yes I'm the FNG but I feel nice n comfy around a bunch of Nukes. For me it was a simple decision. I went to see my recruiter and told him point blank that I wanted a technical job, he looked at my ASVAB scores and handed me the Nuke test. (I never understood why he was so excited that I was going Nuke)

Now it's been almost 10 years and it is time to go. Now, as far as the last ten years go,it's been all ups and downs and I'm certain all can relate. But think about what the Navy really has to offer. I was 22 y/o and skiing in the Andes Mts. in Chilie during a UNITAS deployment. I've seen a 1100 year old Buhdist temple in Korea.  I was able to complete Navy dive school for SCUBA, we dove a wreck off Alamuana beach park in Honolulu for our 130 ft qual dive, with 100+ ft visability. I've had swim calls in the middle of the Pacific, gone snorkeling in Venezuala and partied at Copacabana. All while making an ok salary.

Now I have to admit, for every good time, there have been 10 - 20 times the sucked, but somehow you still manage to have fond memories of those bad times. The Chief's and Officer's that you hated working for, the long hours (from zero-dark to O-dark hundred), the boring and semingly senseless underways, midwatches, etc. When you get with your old buddies after a couple of years, you laugh about all those bad times. Sometime you even miss it.

The bottom line is, whether Navy or civlian, Nuke or Non-Nuke, subs or surface, its a matter of what you make of it. As far as commitment goes, you signed up and said "yes I will do this", so do it and make the best of it. The only thing I can guarentee is if you go into it with a bad attitude, you WILL end up hating life.

                                                        MM1(SS/DV) w/121 days left   

[glowingreen]

What plant is paying 110K for a NLO with minimum OT? I just got done calling every facility in the country and a lot of Plant Managers want that job.

Mike

Did you call Indian Point... 3?

[taterhead]

I am sure that this original poster is far, far gone from this site.....

[Flooznie]

I remember when I was in power school, we actually had one of our ETs get into major trouble.  People used to always snicker about the officer instructors being formally known as "dildos", but this guy named Fast took them up on it.  One day during physics class, he actually raised his hand and said, "Excuse me, dildo, can you tell me _________________?"

Luckily, he didn't go to mast for that.  He just got yelled at by a bunch of people and was told to never say that again.

ET1 (SS)

[Fermi2]

Did you call Indian Point... 3?

Yeah and the PM laughed.

[glowingreen]

Yeah and the PM laughed.

Oh... so I guess you caught me in a lie. But wait, what could I possibly have to gain by making something like this up. I am no nav recruiter and I do not hire people here, so I really have no need to falsely build the place up. I simply made an honest post so that this person who started this topic (wherever they are...) could realize that there are big things waiting for them on the other side (plus, he is probably tired of everyone just telling him to suck it up). Now, as to why you would spend so much of your "valuable" time calling every site in the country is beyond me. I am amazed that you could nail down the "Plant Manager" here. We have not had a person operating under that title in a few years now. If I cared enough, I would ask for an address and I would send you a paystub, but I probably would have just made that up too. Maybe you should just believe it... because there are a few other sites where NLO's make more than we do here. Better run to the phone and dial up some more PMs. Or, better yet, maybe you can land a job as a Wal-Mart greeter to supplement your "SRO" income so that maybe then you will be able to sleep at night (but that wouldn't help, because then you'd be working all of the time). Get a grip and stop wasting your time. What a great website. People like you (Fermi2) make me want to come running back.

[ETfromHELL]

I'm currently going through "A" school at NNPTC, and I can understand how one would want "out". I'm 24, and being out of high school 6 years and out of college for 2, my ability to "absorb the material" is no more. However, i'm sticking it out because I know what the rewards are when I finally get through the program and leave the Navy. LIFE AT NNPTC SUCKS!! I know, half of my friends have been sent to mast for the dumbest reasons, there are more "rules" than any where else in the Navy, but it has it's rewards. You're going to write your own ticket when you get out. Stick it out! Don't blow a good thing, and don't bring down those around you who want this.

To answer Sefrick's question about why the recruiter was more than happy to bend over backwards to sign him on as a Nuke, it's because we're worth more than the average recruit. Signing on an SK for example is worth 1 towards they're quota of 4 per month. Signing on a Nuke is worth 2. I know this because my recruiter, a close family friend, told me so!

[Fermi2]

I'm not trying to be argumentive. I used the term we use here, Plant Manager, that person who is mentioned in the UFSAR as holding the ultimate responsibility to the site. It can be Plant Director, Plant Manager, Director Of Plant Operations.

I also talked with the former Ops boss at IP. We're close frioends. In her words, Mike 29 and hour does not work out to be 100 K a year.

I can get the pay scale of any plant in the country very easily. All ya gotta doi is search the INPO Website. Get the name of the person you'd like to contact, then give them a call.

Mike

[glowingreen]

Mike,

I agree that 29 an hour does not make 100. But if your girlfriend is who I think she is, she has been gone for a little while now. So, 29 is more like 37+. Also, since we are now "one site" and hold hands like we do (yippee), we have a refuel every year... and as you surely know, they are not exactly voluntary. Throw in shift differential and the 8 "built-in" hours of OT on shift (what I meant by working minimum OT), and ANY fully qualified NLO here routinely blows 100K out of the water. And with #3 up around 500 days straight, there has not been much spare OT on our side.

Everyone else,
As I originally tried to say,
nav... not so good.
Money after nuclear nav... quite good... PERIOD.
...and you just might even feel good about having served for your country.

[taterhead]

LIFE AT NNPTC SUCKS!! I know, half of my friends have been sent to mast for the dumbest reasons, there are more "rules" than any where else in the Navy, but it has it's rewards. 

Top reasons guys went to mast when I was in NPS-

1.  Drinking (under age or contributing to under age)
2.  Cheating/Integrity Violations (hours violations, etc)
3.  UA
4.  Just generally being dumbasses

It's not that hard, just requires discipline.  Enjoy power school, my friends.  I know I did.  Orlando was a blast.

[getinmiggy]

Get out while you can. If you have less than 90 days, you can get discharged without it really looking all that bad. I would do that if I were you. Don't listen to any of these other clowns. It doesn't ever get any better or anything. GET OUT!!!!There are so many ways that you can get out, you just have to take the time to do the research and the time to follow threw with it. It might seem hard at first but it is well worth it. It isn't too late!!! Do it while you still can.

[RCLCPO]

There have been some striking constants in the Nuclear Navy over the past 20 years.  One of which involves the general description of the disgruntled sailor.  In my experience, these are the common descriptors:

1.  They've never had to work for anything in their (young) lives.
2.  They've always been smart enough to get by in school without having to put forth any effort.
3.  They could've had A's and B's in school, but were satisfied with C's that didn't require effort to achieve.
4.  They joined the Navy because they thought it would be an easy way to make lots of money.
5.  They've never worked under a contract before, and the idea of being able to quit is still real.
6.  When required to put forth effort, they resist, rather than adapt.
7.  If they were to put forth half as much effort at the job as they did bitching and griping, they would actually be productive.
8.  Life, for them, will always be greener on the other side of whatever they are currently doing.  Until they actually change jobs, that is, and realize employers compensate for work and effort, not attitude.
9.  Their amazing amount of childish ego, believing they know more about the world than those older, wiser and experienced.  This contibutes to their belief that all the rules, procedures and military requirements are merely "stupid", as are the opinions of everyone who doesn't agree with them.
10.  When they finally grow up, they can be good, productive people.
11.  Until they grow up, work will be an affliction, and professionalism a curse.

Y'know what, ETfromHELL and getinmiggy, why don't you just go ahead and get the hell out of my Navy before you become a royal pain in the collective ass of the real men and women of whatever ship you get assigned to.

[Phurst]

9.  Their amazing amount of childish ego, believing they know more about the world than those older, wiser and experienced.  This contibutes to their belief that all the rules, procedures and military requirements are merely "stupid", as are the opinions of everyone who doesn't agree with them.

#9 Since the beginning of time.
I was one of those disgruntled sailors early on and I regret not changing my attitude and doing my best. I would be light years ahead of where I am now. In the long run it doesn't matter because each individual will act as he/she feels. Too bad. I wish I would have taken advice instead of knowing it all.

[sefrick]

RCLCPO, now that I know who you are I could hear your voice on that last post. Perhaps deja vu from discussions we had during some midwatches that we stood together.

ETfromHELL, enjoy NNPS while you are there. To admit, I was a rock in power school. I went in after doing well in "A" school thinking that I knew it all, then promptly had my ass handed to me academicly. I put in about 45-50 hours per week and still managed to have a blast. Despite all the work and never sleeping, looking back it was a great time. Refuse to fail and you will get through it.

Honestly, I think that it's worth it while you are still in the Navy. Yes you have good experience and training for after your term is up, but you also have the privilege of working with a rare and unique breed in sailors. The work environment from the people in it make it better. You recieve benifits, including pay benifits for having to deal with the daily BS that comes with Naval nuclear power. The daily BS also builds character and prepares you for challenges.

The standard is much, much higher. That is why you see people going to mast and getting the boot for "dumb ass reasons". Think about it, would you want to be onboard a sub, at sea submerged operating where the depth of the ocean is nearly 2 miles deep with some wing nut who can't obey a simple rule because they think that they know it all or that they will get away with it, winging valves on a pressurized steam plant? Or better yet, put that same wing nut on the panel (either panel for that matter) and let him operate the electric or reactor plant. That's bad business.

These guys need to be weeded out. With their insubordination and lack or respect they pose a threat to the safety of the crew and creat a headache, constant headache for guys like RLCPO and myself. I'm certain that we can both name a few weeds that slipped through.

                                                               MM1(SS/DV)