N.Y. regulators approve clean energy standard with nuclear subsidies

[GLW]

With Clean Energy Standard, New York looks to save nukes, skirt legal challenges

http://www.utilitydive.com/news/with-clean-energy-standard-new-york-looks-to-save-nukes-skirt-legal-chall/423673/

from the article:

While the order is clear in its support for the plants, it also acknowledges that New York must walk a fine line in how the supports are structured, if it is to avoid wading into wholesale market functions under the jurisdiction of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission.

you know what?!?!?!?

people need to back off with "the Feds", the Feds come up with all sorts of pie in the sky BS "for the children" but no way to back it up, including all these windmills and solar panels...

ya know what pal?!?!?, New Yorkers are setting this up, New Yorkers are paying for it, this is a New York thing, it's an in-house fight,...

stay home, tend to your own, find new customers for your wholesale power producers, kiss our New York ass,...

[Rennhack]

kiss our New York ass,...

How do you really feel?

[Rerun]

The air has zero to do with it. The climate change item is a strawman argument

[hamsamich]

The government in NY  begs to differ.  And whether they are right about it or not doesn't matter if people's perception is there.  It's what the state governments actually DO that matters.  Maybe nuclear is finally catching a break in a favorable direction based on perception for once.

[GLW]

The air has zero to do with it. The climate change item is a strawman argument

most people posting here have always agreed with that,...

subsidies for wind and solar and the related "green, non hydrocarbon" generators should have never been,...

coal plants should still be going strong where it is appropriate for coal plants to be,...

BUT,...

the state sets the playing field, not us,...

New York State has regraded the playing field (again) in New York,...

PLAY BALL!!!!!

YMMV,...

[Marlin]

most people posting here have always agreed with that,...

Nope, that would imply that the money is not really there. The emissions controls makes the money available and therefore profitability for the utility even if it is not from raw production. The only strawman argument is at the root here, Climate Change (AGT) is the fallacy or at least the alarmist version of it in my opinion but that is a debate for PolySci. RECs makes wind and solar financially viable ZECs make nuclear financially viable were available. Money in the black column is still credit not debit on the spreadsheets.

[hamsamich]

I think whether you believe in Global Warming or not, you have to agree that the economy is changing every year to add more value to non-carbon producing power plants.  Not saying that it is right or wrong, but it is happening.  Where else can you get that many GW that quickly from non-carbon?  The plants are already built.  What will happen state by state is anybody's guess, but the fact that coal plants are being removed so quickly in most states implies more and more value for any non-carbon production overall.  Lemmings.....

[GLW]

Nope, that would imply that the money is not really there. The emissions controls makes the money available and therefore profitability for the utility even if it is not from raw production. The only strawman argument is at the root here, Climate Change (AGT) is the fallacy or at least the alarmist version of it in my opinion but that is a debate for PolySci. RECs makes wind and solar financially viable ZECs make nuclear financially viable were available. Money in the black column is still credit not debit on the spreadsheets.

I am not following your post,....

credits (recs/zecs/etc.) Are subsidies,....

subsidies based on strawman science,....

the money is not "there", the money is expropriated by strawman justifications,....

what NY has done is simple,...

NY has realized the futility of the earlier strawman but refuses to be " retroprogressive",....

so, as cold reality settles in  NY concedes to grid stability with ZECs for nuclear,....

[Marlin]

I am not following your post,....

credits (recs/zecs/etc.) Are subsidies,....

subsidies based on strawman science,....

the money is not "there", the money is expropriated by strawman justifications,....

what NY has done is simple,...

NY has realized the futility of the earlier strawman but refuses to be " retroprogressive",....

so, as cold reality settles in  NY concedes to grid stability with ZECs for nuclear,....

...we are so close
 


Saying the money is there but not really because the root cause of is a strawman argument would seem to be a strawman argument. 


   A strawman argument is one supported by a fallacy. The money is not a fallacy. The reason for the money is a fallacy in my opinion but not in the opinion of the government providing the subsidies.


   A strawman argument may also be misdirection by answering with a reply not presented by the other side. I guess you can go back to previous arguments on viability of nuclear power exclude the benefit of subsidies and make the argument that the old plants designed in the 60s are not self supporting and I would agree. You can argue that if gas prices stay stagnet at the current low prices nuclear at least for the older plants is dead if not in a regulated market. You can make all of those arguments but in reply to a discussion that has subsides as a central point of the discussion on the viability of the applicable nuclear plants where the subsides are real the strawman argument is the one that says air quality or AGT is a strawman argument is a strawman argument.

[GLW]

...we are so close

you are correct, too close to worry 'bout the outliers,...

Enjoy the Day!!!!

peace....GLW 

[Marlin]

you are correct, too close to worry 'bout the outliers,...

Enjoy the Day!!!!

peace....GLW 

Is that an agree to disagree    

[Rennhack]

Is that an agree to disagree    

That's a "it's time to drink some beer, and let the internet have a nap."

[Marlin]

That's a "it's time to drink some beer ,

That's a "it's time to drink some beer wine

and let the internet have a nap."

The internet is the break from work     now it's time for bed.






... just wanted to stay in character with my adversarial not having any of it persona... 

[hamsamich]

I guess this is how it goes:  I like GLW, I think he's smart dude, but sometimes I don't understand what he is trying to say.

[GLW]

It wont happen anywhere else!

bet it does:

and it did,...


Connecticut,...


http://www.powermag.com/connecticut-ohio-pennsylvania-make-substantive-gains-for-state-nuclear-subsidies/


Illinois,...


http://www.elp.com/articles/2016/12/illinois-pass-subsidy-bill-to-save-state-s-nuclear-power-plants.html


and pending elsewhere, e.g. Pennsylvania,...


https://about.bnef.com/blog/pennsylvania-next-nuclear-plants-seek-subsidies/


Ohio,...


https://www.utilitydive.com/news/new-ohio-bill-reintroduces-nuclear-subsidy-program-as-doe-pushes-cost-recov/507389/


(gotta keep the lights on at the Pizza House ya know!)


absolutes are time bombs on the internet,...

[GLW]

OBTW -

Ohio passed and signed in 2019,....

PA did some sorta RGGI thing, while the BV operators still hold closure over their heads post 2022,...