Author Topic: Community continues fight to keep Davis-Besse open (Read 3896 times)

Marlin · « **on:** Feb 04, 2018, 04:01 »

Community continues fight to keep Davis-Besse open

http://www.13abc.com/content/news/People-fight-to-keep-Davis-Besse-open-471686083.html

Mounder · « **Reply #1 on:** Feb 05, 2018, 10:28 »

"Even if FirstEnergy gets out of the business, State Representative Steven Arndt thinks there are potential buyers who could keep the plant going, "I believe those plants could be purchased and operated profitability.""
Is this realistic? Are there companies looking to back-fill this operator slot? Or is this just political speak to take a hopeful slant? Like so many other large employers in Ohio in the past 4 decades, once they leave and whatever back-fills the space, is no more than 10% of the original job total (much like a DoD or DOE site taking the BRAC hit.)

TVA · « **Reply #2 on:** Feb 05, 2018, 01:58 »

No not possible

ipregen · « **Reply #3 on:** Feb 05, 2018, 02:29 »

This is what deregulation does. Gen stations owned by the utility company had protected profits that came from many rate payers. The utilities were allowed to make money within a range that wasn't too large or at a loss. Deregulation promoted to Washington by Enron said customers will benefit in a free market. That resulted in soaring power prices and blackouts in California for a few years. All the merchant plants started making windfall profits and all these nukes seemed like a great investment. Then the big disruptor stepped up to the plate, cheap gas, how long will it be cheap? Probably about when we are down to just a few nukes left and gas has us by the nads.

GLW · « **Reply #4 on:** Feb 05, 2018, 02:34 »

Quote from: ipregen on Feb 05, 2018, 02:29

..............Then the big disruptor stepped up to the plate, cheap gas, how long will it be cheap? Probably about when we are down to just a few nukes left and gas has us by the nads.

yep, pert much,....

Quote from: GLW on Feb 04, 2018, 06:25

there are no new plants coming on-line anytime soon,...

at least 5 of the current plants will be going off the grid in the next five years,....

the current operating nukes are pretty much all "bridge" base load units between where we are today and the "new green technology" base load units which are just somewhere over the fantasy horizon,...

TVA · « **Reply #5 on:** Feb 05, 2018, 03:49 »

Sorry deregulation was promoted by the utilities and they made money hand over foot. Gas will stay low for at least a decade.

GLW · « **Reply #6 on:** Feb 05, 2018, 04:40 »

Quote from: TVA on Feb 05, 2018, 03:49

Sorry deregulation was promoted by the utilities and they made money hand over foot. Gas will stay low for at least a decade.

all true,...

and about ten years from now we'll be down to 60 maybe 66 nuke plants on the grid,...

and then gas goes up?!?!?!?!? and up and up and up?!?!?!?!?!?

coincidence or causation?!?!?!?!

who knows, who cares?!?!?!

TVA · « **Reply #7 on:** Feb 05, 2018, 04:46 »

I have a sneaking suspicion nerc might step in here.

GLW · « **Reply #8 on:** Feb 06, 2018, 05:54 »

Quote from: TVA on Feb 05, 2018, 04:46

I have a sneaking suspicion nerc might step in here.

I dunno, the last two decades expansions of the Vector, Alliance, Northern Border, Cheyennes Plains and Rockies Express Pipelines have made gas availability for that weak spot on the grid a done deal,...

what does it take to build 800Mw of gas?

one, maybe two years?

needing maybe 50 to 60 plant staff total?

I'm just saying,... $:-\$

mjd · « **Reply #9 on:** Feb 06, 2018, 07:35 »

Quote from: GLW on Feb 06, 2018, 05:54

I dunno, the last two decades expansions of the Vector, Alliance, Northern Border, Cheyennes Plains and Rockies Express Pipelines have made gas availability for that weak spot on the grid a done deal,...

what does it take to build 800Mw of gas?

one, maybe two years?

needing maybe 50 to 60 plant staff total?

I'm just saying,... $:-\$

Actually, it takes ~$900M, 32 months, Station Staff of 25, for 870 MWe... 18 crow-fly miles from DBNPP. Second unit started. DBNPP is toast. http://oregoncleanenergycenter.com/

Bonds 25 · « **Reply #10 on:** Feb 09, 2018, 01:44 »

That’s your baby though!! DBNPP would have experienced core damage if it wasn’t for you.

Sad day when burning more gas (a f*cking fossil fuel) seems like the better choice for the planet...because, like, its cheaper, like right now.

TVA · « **Reply #11 on:** Feb 09, 2018, 08:45 »

It will be cheaper for 15 years at least and just as clean.

SloGlo · « **Reply #12 on:** Feb 09, 2018, 09:15 »

Quote from: TVA on Feb 09, 2018, 08:45

It will be cheaper for 15 years at least and just as clean.

then yore s.m.r. wood bee thru testings n bean installed two take over caseload demand.

TVA · « **Reply #13 on:** Feb 09, 2018, 09:46 »

Not in 15 years

TVA · « **Reply #14 on:** Feb 09, 2018, 09:47 »

Quote from: GLW on Feb 06, 2018, 05:54

I dunno, the last two decades expansions of the Vector, Alliance, Northern Border, Cheyennes Plains and Rockies Express Pipelines have made gas availability for that weak spot on the grid a done deal,...

what does it take to build 800Mw of gas?

one, maybe two years?

needing maybe 50 to 60 plant staff total?

I'm just saying,... $:-\$

NERC saved Ginna. It depends on how strong the grid is at that location.

GLW · « **Reply #15 on:** Feb 09, 2018, 11:25 »

Quote from: TVA on Feb 09, 2018, 09:47

NERC saved Ginna. It depends on how strong the grid is at that location.

Nope, NYISO in cohort with Cuomo and the NYS REV bolstered with the NYS CES saved Ginna,....

Indian Point has no issues with supply, demand or profit,...

But IP is going down,....

and there is a lot of new gas construction and some pollyanna "new green" stuff being put in place to off-set IP's loss to the grid,...

Ginna is a "bridge" to the NYS REV,...

none of the above is a NERC thing,...

it is all a NYS thing,...

TVA · « **Reply #16 on:** Feb 09, 2018, 11:52 »

Ginna shutting down would have weakened the grid..

GLW · « **Reply #17 on:** Feb 09, 2018, 03:53 »

Quote from: TVA on Feb 09, 2018, 11:52

Ginna shutting down would have weakened the grid..

mebbe yes, mebbe no,...

there is/was a back up plan should the CES fail and Exelon carry through on the shutdown extortion,...

I'm still thinking that NYISO has a slightly "special" level of autonomy above NERC as codified by FERC,...

https://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,27996.msg198201.html#msg198201

which (I'm thinking I read it right) authorizes NYISO to make deals with the likes of PJM and Canada (ala FERC Order No. 1000) which kinda lets NYS outsource to keep the grid up to strength in the event that politics play out crosswise to common sense,...

mjd · « **Reply #18 on:** Feb 09, 2018, 03:57 »

Fascinating picture of the energy situation (the view ain't bad either). Go to the Oregon Clean Energy Center web site linked in my above comment, play the first video on the page and stop at 55 seconds. What you see on the left is BP's Toledo Refinery... supplying NG to the new NG plant and also petroleum-coke to Toledo Edison's single remaining large (converted) unit at its Bay Shore Station (was 4-coal fired units; 800+ MWe). That plant is about dead-center. Between the 4 large power poles just to the right is the Fermi2 CT plume across L Erie near Monroe, MI. The DBNPP CT plume is to the right out of this picture. But the DBNPP CT plume can be seen at the extreme right, just above the horizon, in the first 1-3 seconds of the video.

TVA · « **Reply #19 on:** Feb 09, 2018, 05:56 »

When I was an NLO at Fermi I called in an extinguished cooling tower light at DB.

Author Topic: Community continues fight to keep Davis-Besse open (Read 3896 times)

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