Joining for education and personal growth, good idea?

[hedeyasu]

 I'd like to apologize in advance for what is likely a commonly asked question, but I feel that any information I find doesn't quite fit my situation. The reason I ask is because it seems that the common consensus for military service is "Don't do it unless you genuinely just want to serve your country." Though that's not necessarily the case for me, I feel that there are too many benefits to simply dismiss it.

Keeping things as short as possible, I have 2 reasons for wanting to join.

1.      Pay for school – Going nuke allows me to get my bachelor's with ease + attend graduate school with no financial troubles. I'm pursuing a career in research. At best, I may manage to scrape by for the next 6+ years of my life, and maybe if I get lucky, I can get a decent paying position at the end of it. This is not a guarantee, whereas nuke money is. Admittedly, the idea of not being poor is incredibly seductive.

2.      Personal growth – I lack the teamwork and people skills required to succeed in life. The nuke job forces me into a position where I have no choice but to develop these skills.
I've been considering this option heavily for the past five years now. I don't know if that counts for anything, but this certainly isn't a hasty decision.

Here's a list of answers to a few questions people will inevitably have about my situation.

1.       Joining the military for personal growth is stupid. You can easily accomplish that on your own.

   
• Maybe, but I've been trying that for about half my life now. If I have the option of slacking off, my moments of courage/motivation will always wane eventually, and I'll continually find myself back at square 1. Taking away that element of choice means that my only option is growth. Should I continue civilian life the way I am now, I will run into countless problems that constantly set me back. Both personal and professional.

2.       Why nuke? Pick a different branch or find a better rate.

   
• There are no other military programs that offer the same incentives in terms of financial benefits, future employment prospects, and transferable skills. The AF reserves are a decent choice for tuition assistance, but it doesn't offer additional pay for housing and other expenses. I would still be scraping by.

3.       It would be better to get your degree on your own money, even if you go deeper into debt because of it. 5 years is a lot of time to waste when you could be using it to build up skills and savings.

   
• Not necessarily. I would have to work during my undergraduate degree. This gives me no time to gain experience through research, meaning I won't be competitive for grad school or job opportunities. If I somehow manage to get a job during undergraduate that gives me relevant experience, I face the issue of letters of recommendation. Without those aforementioned people skills, at best I submit LORs that are mediocre. At worst, I can't find anyone to write them for me. I would either be unemployed or working a low paying dead-end job for the foreseeable future.

4.       If you can't handle civilian life, what makes you think you'll survive nuke life?

   
• I'm a competitive grappler. I won't claim that combat sports, in which I'm surrounded by friendly people who want me to succeed, is equivalent to the nuke environment. But I believe it proves I can handle a high degree of stress while maintaining a clear enough head to make decisions.

I would appreciate any advice. Though I really want to go this route, I don't want to make a decision that I might regret. Thanks in advance.

[GLW]

only you can make the decision to sign on the line,....

then, all you have to do is own the decision,....

[Marlin]

   A little serendipity here Mike Rowe posted this on Facebook yesterday. Not specific to what you are asking but some good non-advice. Mine personally is that the Navy nuclear propulsion program did a lot for me in personal growth and career but that was in the 70s so I would defer to Rowe's non-advice advice.

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Texts from Mom
Mike, I'm passing this along from your father. I know you get hundreds of these every day, but if you could spare two or three sentences I'm sure you could have an impact. You could send it back to me, and I will send it to dad's friend. The boy's name is Hunter. Thanks, Mom.
John,
I have a grandson who has a Bachelor of Arts and Sciences from San Diego State University with a degree in Theatre Arts. He has been doing performing arts since he was little. He is at present finishing a Christmas Show at Lego Land in Carlsbad and will return to school for a master's degree in teaching. I wonder if your son Mike would talk to him and give him advice? Thank you in advance and Happy New Years. Will see you at the book club.
Jerry
Hi Hunter
Mike Rowe here, son of John, who is apparently a friend of Jerry's, who I believe you know as "Grandpa." The note above was forwarded to me by my mother, who seems to believe I can offer you some useful advice in "two or three sentences." Honestly, I don't know why my mother would assume such a thing. As she well knows, it takes me two or three sentences just to say hello. She also knows that I'm not very good at taking advice, and even worse at giving it. But, since I am once again strapped into an aluminum tube approaching speeds of 600 miles and hour with nothing better to do, I'll tell you what I think, in slightly more than three sentences.
Obviously, I don't know you. But even if I did, I'd be very careful about advising you to do anything other than read a lot, exercise some, avoid sugar, be grateful, stay curious, always consider every option, and never borrow money needlessly. I have no opinion on how you should make a living or which direction you should choose, not merely because I don't know you, but also because I believe that job satisfaction has less to do with the job, and more to do with the jobber. If this were not the case, all teachers would be equally happy, or miserable. As would all performers. And that is clearly not the case.
To belabor the point unnecessarily, it occurs to me that one of the great problems plaguing our nation right now is the amount of cookie-cutter advice being tossed about by public figures who seem to believe their proclamations are relevant to millions of people they've never even met. Why for instance, do Lady Gaga and Beyonce – usually after winning Grammy Awards - always encourage their fans to "follow their dreams" and never quit, without knowing if the people they were talking to have any talent? Do they really suppose that persistence alone got them to the top of the charts? Staying the course only makes sense if you're skills match up with your ambition, but even then, how do rock stars and athletes and celebrities know if the thing that worked for them will work for someone else? Have they not learned that just because you're passionate about something, doesn't mean you can't suck at it?
For years, my standard reaction to anyone who asked me for advice concerning a career in show business was to affirmatively discourage them. It didn't matter how much talent they had, or how much passion, drive, or ambition. I told anyone who asked me about making money in entertainment to do themselves a favor and find another way to make a buck.
"It's a fine hobby," I said, "but a lousy way to make a living."
I said this, Hunter, not because I believed it – Fact is, I love my career, and I've done well in my chosen field. No, I used to say this because I believed that anyone who could be so easily talked out of a career in show business by the likes of me, would never survive the relentless rejection that awaited them. Today, I don't do that anymore because, well...people started taking my advice. I realized that as I became more successful, people started to take my words more seriously. And the truth is, that's unnerving. Bottom line, I have no idea if you'll be happier as a performer or as teacher. Likewise, I have no idea if you would benefit more from an encouraging word, or a discouraging word. And so, I now limit my advice to what I mentioned above - read a lot, exercise some, avoid sugar, be grateful, stay curious, always consider every option, and never borrow money needlessly.
To belabor the point a bit further, and to further mock my mother's three sentence solution, I'm reminded of the time a couple years ago on this page, when I caught all kinds of hell for refusing to participate in a Hollywood PSA to "Rock the Vote." The organizers were baffled by my reticence.
"You could have a real impact," they said.
"An impact on what?" I asked. "A big turnout? Or a favorable result?"
At this point, the conversation went off the rails, but the fundamental question remained. Why in the world would anyone who believes that elections have serious consequences – as I do - encourage millions of potentially unserious people to cast a ballot? It's a fact that many people in this country can't pass a basic citizenship test. Why would I encourage such people to vote? If I believe the consequences of elections are transformational – as I do – why would I encourage anyone to vote if I didn't know they shared my beliefs about what makes America an exceptional place?
"Because it's their right!" I was told. "And because people fought and died to give them that right!"
"True," I said. "It is their right. And I would never try to keep anyone from exercising that right. But why should I encourage people I don't know to do something so consequential? Because they're eligible? These same Americans are also eligible to march in a protest. That too, is an important right. But should I encourage them to exercise that right, without knowing the nature of the protest they're attending? I respect the right of the KKK and Antifa to assemble, but why would I encourage them to do so if I don't care for their worldview? Many of these same Americans are also eligible to own a firearm. That, too, is a right that was fought for. Should I encourage millions of strangers to purchase a gun on that basis alone? As a gun owner myself, I would prefer it if only responsible, law-abiding citizens exercised that right. Is a vote less consequential than a firearm? Is an uninformed voter less dangerous than an untrained gun owner?"
As you may know, Hunter, I run a foundation that awards work ethic scholarships to people who wish to attend a trade school. It's called mikeroweWORKS, and every year, we award a million dollars in scholarships to people who wish to learn a trade. I don't do this because I believe everyone should learn a trade. I do it because for decades, we've been pushing an entire generation to get a college degree. Worse, we've been telling people who don't pursue a degree, that they're probably going to wind up stuck doing something "beneath" them. And in most cases, that "something" is a skilled trade.
I strongly believe a lot of people who borrowed a lot of money to get an expensive diploma would have been much better off learning a skilled trade. I have no idea if you are among them, but should you ever decide to explore those opportunities, feel free to apply. As for your current situation, I don't know if you should teach school or perform. I can tell you that my dad did both for nearly 30 years, so your decision may not be as binary as you think. I can also tell you that having a grandfather who loves you is a truly wonderful thing.
That's all I got.
Mike

[Marlin]

Thank goodness this wasnt in SloGloese! Low quay shis, blow vee eighting, etc. Tad much for a dude thinking about joining the Navy.

   Maybe, but digesting a lot of information in a short period of time is the Nuke pipeline, or was, I am a bit dated on this. Of course he did not stomp his foot during important information that you might see again or draw a little horseshoe next to that information on the chaulk board. For a young man who never needed to study and daydreamed in class Nuke school was a little like standing under a waterfall with my mouth open. As I learned good study habits my grade point average increased significantly, from barely hanging on to being the seventh mechanic to qualify at NPTU Idaho of all three of the prototypes (personal growth). I think the non-advice advice is good for anyone starting our in life. hedeyasu laid out a very thoughtful question to start this thread so he is well ahead of me at that stage. YMMV is a good response and Mike's lengthy generic advice is some of the best I have seen. His advice that the young man should not persue a career in entertainment is a good parrallel to enlisting in the Navy Nuclear Nuclear Propulsion Program. To convert to apply to the current thread, making money in the Navy as a door to pay for college do yourself a favor and find another way to make a buck. He clarified this with "I used to say this because I believed that anyone who could be so easily talked out of a career in show business by the likes of me, would never survive the relentless rejection that awaited them". Again this is more meaningful to me who went through the pipeline when washout rates were very high. I understand it is lower today but still a reality along with the shock of being in the military where "Needs of the Navy" rules.

"That's just my opinion I could be wrong" D.M.

[Marlin]

Thank goodness this wasnt in SloGloese! Low quay shis, blow vee eighting, etc. Tad much for a dude thinking about joining the Navy.

   Maybe, but digesting a lot of information in a short period of time is the Nuke pipeline,

fiveeleven you deleted your post while I was composing mine. Not sure way, it was a valid comment especially on SloGloese. I thought about deleting mine but decided not to. I think your SloGloese was very good. 

[rlbinc]

I hope he joined.
Thought plenty about it -  and if truth be told, I'd never have gotten where I've been any other way.
I didn't become educated, I was trained and qualified.
Based on my 45 years in the industry - educated people often didn't do my job.
Personal growth. My Dad a Korean War veteran said - "it will mean a lot more to you when you're older".
It's a small club. The veteran community in the US is only 19M of 335m Americans. 6% or so.
Navy Nuclear Power is but a small fraction of that.
At my earnings peak, I made a ton of money It made me feel tired.
The years I spent at poverty level in the Navy - I'm proud of at age 65. Dad was right. Dads are always right.