Navy Contracts

[AStuart]

This question may have already been addressed on another thread. I just wanted to make sure I'm not getting screwed. I made a 97 on my ASVAB and signed up to be a Nuke. My question is this: My contract does not have MM, ET, or EM specified or my rank as E3. It actually says E1 on the contract. I'm leaving in April and just wanted to make sure this was normal. Is it? Or should I renegotiate and make sure it says E3 and ET or EM? I pray to God I'm not a MM! Any input from a Nuke would be appreciated the more recent the better!

[Gamecock]

It won't specify MM, EM or ET.  You get what you get based on needs of the navy once your in. 

Not sure about the E3 thing....I know mine did say E3 back in 1990 when I signed up, of course that was 19 years ago.

Cheers,
GC

[HydroDave63]

I pray to God I'm not a MM! 

Since you have almost no inkling of what the Program is, still being a twinkling in a recruiter's eye and all that, why do you say such a thing? MMs and ELTs can be found being successful throughout the industry. BTW, I say that as an EM ....

[BoilerHP]

I am not ex-navy... but I have seen a lot more former MM in the ops department than ELT etc etc.

[Already Gone]

So, without knowing jack$#!t about the first thing that any Navy Nuke actually does, you have decided to petition the Almighty to keep you from being a Machinist's Mate.

HMMMM!  Sounds to me like your first lesson in NukeWorker school is respect and humility.

If you think you are too good to be a MM, remember that most of the Operations Department in most of the US commercial nuclear plants are former MM's.

The CO of my second ship, the Navigator of my first ship, and many other fine Naval Officers were former MM's.

Very many of the people who give the advice here on NW were MM's.

Admittedly, we got our hands dirty sometimes.  But you will clean just as many toilets and bilges as the MM's. 

Anyway, do you really think you can "renegotiate" a contract with the Navy?  Let's see.  You signed the contract (apparently without reading it, because you didn't know what was in it or not until afterward)  and are now obligated to do what the Navy tells you to do.  for their part, what motivation do they have to renegotiate?  They have what they want (your ass for 6 years) and aren't likely to get a better deal by giving you one.  You are not Derek Jeter.   They have nothing invested in you yet and nothing from you to show that you are worth the effort.

I guess that in order to "re-negotiate" you would have to have the ability to "negotiate" in the first place.  Do you really think that you negotiated the original contract?  Hell no, you didn't.  You were offered the choice to sign it or not, but the "negotiation" ended right then and there.  You might point out the E-1 vs. E-3 part, and they make the necessary corrections, but nothing requires them at this point to void a contract that you have signed just because you now realize that you don't like it. This is the reason why there are contracts in the first place.

BTW, enlisted personnel in the Navy do not have "rank".  E-1 or E-3 would be your paygrade.  Once you become a Petty Officer, you will have a rate.  Once you have been designated with a specialty (possibly without yet being a PO) you will have a rating.  Learn what these words mean.  They are important to you now.

http://bluejacket.com/usn_ratings.html

Then go figure out the advisability of insulting men and women who have served their country by belittling the job they did for you that you didn't even understand.

[Fermi2]

This question may have already been addressed on another thread. I just wanted to make sure I'm not getting screwed. I made a 97 on my ASVAB and signed up to be a Nuke. My question is this: My contract does not have MM, ET, or EM specified or my rank as E3. It actually says E1 on the contract. I'm leaving in April and just wanted to make sure this was normal. Is it? Or should I renegotiate and make sure it says E3 and ET or EM? I pray to God I'm not a MM! Any input from a Nuke would be appreciated the more recent the better!

Guess you should learn attention to detail NUB.
They get dumber every year.

Mike

[still_in]

Guess you should learn attention to detail NUB.
They get dumber every year.

Mike

I bet everyone in this forum knew exactly what they were signing when they were 17-18 years old.  How easy it is to forget.
Maybe the snide comments do something for you Mike but they are a disservice to the forum.

[AStuart]

I'm really not worried about snide remarks! I'll get plenty of that in basic! My question was pretty simple though. Should my contract say E3 on the "paygrade" and is the rating selected after basic, before I leave, after A school, or when? The only reason I don't want to be a MM is... because I'd rather be an ET or EM. I'm not going to complain if that's what happens, that's just my preference. Also, from my understanding, the contract is not final until I leave and put my final signature on it. Until then I could get out. It would be a pain, but possible.

[Smooth Operator]

Popcorn Anyone?

Ding Ding Ding...

Ladies and Gentlemen, may I direct your attention to the ring...

[imthehoopa]

from DD Form 4/2 D. 13a. (which you signed):

"I certify that I have carefully read this document..."
"Any questions I had were explained to my satisfaction."
And it goes on to say that if any information is not on the attached forms then it doesn't mean anything.
Then you sign that box to acknowledge those statements.

Attached forms also explain that your rate will be selected "based on the needs of the service" during recruit training.

My contract does say that I will begin with an E-3 paygrade, but that's because I read it and had it changed before I signed it. Good luck on fixing that. See you in Great Lakes in April.

-Dep Recruit, (hopefully future MM) imthehoopa

[JustinHEMI05]

I would bet that you don't have to worry about it. The navy isn't going to screw you over your entire career by having you go through the pipeline as an E1.

Justin

[Gamecock]

I would bet that you don't have to worry about it. The navy isn't going to screw you over your entire career by having you go through the pipeline as an E1.

Justin

I Concur.

[Already Gone]

I'm really not worried about snide remarks! I'll get plenty of that in basic! My question was pretty simple though. Should my contract say E3 on the "paygrade" and is the rating selected after basic, before I leave, after A school, or when? The only reason I don't want to be a MM is... because I'd rather be an ET or EM. I'm not going to complain if that's what happens, that's just my preference. Also, from my understanding, the contract is not final until I leave and put my final signature on it. Until then I could get out. It would be a pain, but possible.

You are going to get detailed, yet easy-to-follow instructions, which you will be required to follow exactly as given.

You will get training, both physical and academic, which will and will not make any sense to you until long afterward.

You will get the attitude adjusted right the hell out of you - for a little while anyways.

You WILL get an appreciation for things like detail, precision, and thoroughness.  This was a false alarm for you, but there will come a time - an exam or a drill or even a real event - where you will have to stay cool and do exactly what is required or get screwed big time.

We aren't kidding, and we aren't here to hurt your feelings.  This is what you have to know to operate a nuclear reactor on our beloved earth.  Next time somebody gives you a bunch of words to deal with, you will remember that each of those words has the purpose of conveying information to you that you will need.  You need to appreciate the value of each and every word, and how it differs from many other words that are like it.  When someone gives you a simple command, or puts an exam question on your desk, or trusts you with a procedure that you must follow as written, you NEED to pay very close attention to those words, understand them completely, and comply with them precisely.

What we don't tell you here is that the Navy Nuclear Program does NOT make you an expert on nuclear power.  It makes you and expert on following the orders and procedures that are necessary to operate a nuclear power plant safely - period.

So, up to now, you have been a bit careless with words.  You failed to read and understand them all.  Not uncommon for someone in your position.  You used some carelessly and insulted some people you didn't mean to insult.  You are also not the first to have done that.  We can forgive you these small transgressions, but a pump or a valve or a reactor will not be forgiving.

So, get serious.

Your rating will be determined while you are in RTC.  You will get the same career interview on the same day as everyone in your company.  They will have your file, and will ask your preferences.  This will be weighed against your ASVAB scores - but if you met the nuke cutoff your scores are probably high in every area so they won't exclude you from any rating.  What will determine your rating is the needs of the Navy and your preferences.  Since they need lots more MM's than the other two ratings, lots of guys who put MM down as their second or third choice will be MM's.  But it is almost guaranteed (with the odd exception) that you will be an MM if you put that as your first or second choice.

[Fermi2]

I bet everyone in this forum knew exactly what they were signing when they were 17-18 years old.  How easy it is to forget.
Maybe the snide comments do something for you Mike but they are a disservice to the forum.

Shrugs. Oh well. You dign it, you pay the consequences. These 18 year olds are EXPECTED, not DEMANDED to understand what they are signing as a Nuke. No sense coddling them now. That's their mama's job.

[Wanna Know Mom]

BZ, Can't speak for other moms, but coddling my son was not part of my parenting job.  

Kathy, VPNNM

[AStuart]

First of all thank you for addressing my question. The thing I don't understand is I did ask them about it at MEPS and they told me it should say E1. I thought was odd, but all I had to go on was their word. As far as not being serious and having an attitude? I wish you only knew me. I've had some experience in life and I know what hard work feels like. I'm not coming straight out of high school. Actually, my recruiter constantly ribs me for being too serious! I know how to listen and follow orders. I just don't want to end up as a boatswain after waiting 8 months to be a nuke! Thanks again for your help.

[JustinHEMI05]

First of all thank you for addressing my question. The thing I don't understand is I did ask them about it at MEPS and they told me it should say E1. I thought was odd, but all I had to go on was their word. As far as not being serious and having an attitude? I wish you only knew me. I've had some experience in life and I know what hard work feels like. I'm not coming straight out of high school. Actually, my recruiter constantly ribs me for being too serious! I know how to listen and follow orders. I just don't want to end up as a boatswain after waiting 8 months to be a nuke! Thanks again for your help.

Hey don't worry about the good advice people are giving. They only have your best interests in mind, even if it seems a little harsh at times. Anyway, again, I wouldn't worry about what it says. If I remember correctly, and I might not, when I went through everyone was an E1 until they graduated boot anyway. Maybe one of our nukeworker recruiters can chime in. Again, the Navy isn't going to screw you over by making you go to the pipeline as an E1.

Justin

[dagiffy]

I remember what the recruiter told me about the asvab scores. The "smartest" guys got ET. The next smartest got EM. And the lowest scores got MM. So I went through bootcamp mourning that I wasn't smart enough to be an ET, but at least I was smarter than the knuckle dragging MM's, which was some comfort. That seemed to be the attitude going through Nuke school and NPTU also. This was 20 years ago, maybe it's different now.

Then the fleet. I quickly learned that MM's were the go-to guys that actually knew the plant, not that the other rates didn't but MM's seemed to have a breadth and depth that was uncanny. Not only that, but I learned there was such a thing as ELT and what it was, and then I regretted that I couldn't ever be an ELT because I was marooned as an EM forever. By the end I really looked up to the MM's because most of them forgot more than I ever learned, and not only that but they were trusted with the chemistry and so on.

I don't think you'd regret it if you were "stuck" with being an MM, not at all.

[psmarz]

What does it have on your Enlistment Guarantees? 1b1?

Also do you have to get any waivers or anything?

[imthehoopa]

First of all thank you for addressing my question. The thing I don't understand is I did ask them about it at MEPS and they told me it should say E1. I thought was odd, but all I had to go on was their word. As far as not being serious and having an attitude? I wish you only knew me. I've had some experience in life and I know what hard work feels like. I'm not coming straight out of high school. Actually, my recruiter constantly ribs me for being too serious! I know how to listen and follow orders. I just don't want to end up as a boatswain after waiting 8 months to be a nuke! Thanks again for your help.

You also signed another form, the Nuclear Field Statement of Understanding, that says you will be enlisted in paygrade E-3. I'd point that out if they continue to tell you it should say E-1.

[Gamecock]

When are were from are you shipping out?

What language is this?

Dave, is this some sort of Klingon phraseology?

[HydroDave63]

What language is this?

Dave, is this some sort of Klingon phraseology?

Я не понимаю *shrugs*

[imthehoopa]

I meant to say "when and where from," but it's been removed for not relating to this topic. My apologies.

Я не понимаю *shrugs*

Я тoже знаю русский язык.

[zilla]

I remember what the recruiter told me about the asvab scores. The "smartest" guys got ET. The next smartest got EM. And the lowest scores got MM. So I went through bootcamp mourning that I wasn't smart enough to be an ET, but at least I was smarter than the knuckle dragging MM's, which was some comfort. That seemed to be the attitude going through Nuke school and NPTU also. This was 20 years ago, maybe it's different now.

Then the fleet. I quickly learned that MM's were the go-to guys that actually knew the plant, not that the other rates didn't but MM's seemed to have a breadth and depth that was uncanny. Not only that, but I learned there was such a thing as ELT and what it was, and then I regretted that I couldn't ever be an ELT because I was marooned as an EM forever. By the end I really looked up to the MM's because most of them forgot more than I ever learned, and not only that but they were trusted with the chemistry and so on.

I don't think you'd regret it if you were "stuck" with being an MM, not at all.

As it turns out, your recruiter was full of it too.  I was told the same and MM was my last choice.  I missed acing the ASVAB by one point and missed acing the Nuke test by two points..... then I listed my preference as ET/EM/MM and got selected as an MM.  Made the most of it by being honor grad from A school, top ten nuke school, 2nd guy to qualify at PPT and ELT school on top of that. 

Bragging? no.... just trying to let some of these future navy nuke rookies, that your future is what you make of it and that you don't know jack about what is or isn't best, before you fight the fight.  Now I'm an SRO in the civ world, working with them all.... MMs, EMs, ETs.... and they are all the cream of the crop IMO.  No one rate from days gone by, is the best.... they're the best because they cut their teeth and did their time and worked their asses off to become the men they are today and the fine operators they have grown into.

[empills]

When I went in my contract said E-1 and I was called seaman recruit but I was still getting E-3 pay in Boot Camp. They don't want you to be different in Boot Camp then everyone else. I didn't put the stripes on for E-3 till graduation.