Tina’s Training Trauma (From Bartlett thread)

[Tina]

  No eric

Un-fortunateley RRoads isnt the only one who didnt recieve this training  ... I have to say I fall into this catagory aswell... I guess my concern with Bartlett Services is how is it justifiable that I drive all the way from Oklahoma to Idaho which is 1335 miles oneway and put in 38 hrs of time and receive the hourly wage due me (which shows I was employed) but be denied my travel expense in as well as my per diem for the three days I was employed by Bartlett... I showed up to my report date on time and was ready but becuase of on site testing problems three days later was denied work ... my site rep didnt offer any options or alternitives or suggestions to my plite and I took it upon my self to show my capbilities by going on my own and paying out $150.00 at Porterhouse Testing Center and recertifing my DOE Core cert... My rep didnt try to show anything to the site on my behalf nor try to encorage me in any other direction or try to negotiate a third attempt at the test for me ... Whats sad is one week before I showed up two of my fellow RCT's failed the same way I did... they didnt go recertify their Core and was still given a thrid try... but then they dont work for Bartlett either....all along they kept telling me to stop worrying that if all else failed I'd get a third attempt at the test... Oh well that didnt work for me... I still think I was due my travel in if nothing else... now I sit here with two DOE Core Cards and I'm still looking for work...

[illegalsmile]

Tina, from what you say, I deduce that you drove to INL then failed the Core exam twice. If they told you before you went that you had to have the Core Cert to work there, it was reasonable that they let you go. If they told you they wouldn't pay travel and per diem (as I know they have done in the past) then it was reasonable that you didn't receive it. It is also reasonable that they set a limit on the number of times they will pay a tech to take the same test and twice isn't unreasonable either. If another company was willing to let their people take it the 3rd time, that's their decision. I believe, however, that after showing the initiative to go out and get your Core Cert on your own, you should have been reinstated if they still had an opening. You may want to try calling "the other company."

[Tina]

  I did call the other comapany and they tried very hard to get me another attempt at the test... They did manage to get me another attempt at the test with one stipulation...
  I wait till April to take it.... The other company actually gave me a couple of contacts becuse they understood my desire to work...
The only problem I have with Bartlett about this is they didnt tell me that if after my second attempt I should fail I would'nt be receiving my travel expense in and I honestly didnt know that ...Had I known it might have been a motivating factor for me ... I showed up for them on time like I was asked to do....I should have been given my travel to here... I would have been more than happy to give them more, and had they tried I might have been given  the oppurtunity... instead the other company made an effort for me and I was'nt even employed by them ....
I chalk this whole experience up to the nature of the Biz  and what dosnt kill me makes me stronger... for what its worth I still like my career path .... because to me one bad apple dose'nt spoil the whole bunch  Live & Learn

[kaveman32]

Tina, your statement basically saying, you would have tried harder if you would have known your travel pay was on the line. i dont see how this is all bartletts problem.. personnally i believe you should always do your best . money shouldnt always be the motivating factor.

[alphadude]

another situation where someone failed to get the conditions in writing.. its their own fault. what is said orally and then remembered is usally two different things.. we filter out what we want and forget the rest.


I agree start learning

[illegalsmile]

(OK, sorry Mike.) It is not BARTLETT'S responsibility to get you or me ready to pass a test. They are in the business of matching temporary jobs to people who are available and qualified to do those jobs. Now it is, obviously, in BARTLETT'S best interest to have the people they send to a job prove to be qualified, especially when you are talking about a place like INL where they are not the only contractor providing techs. It is not, however their responsibility to train us.

[Tina]

  Ok lets clear some of this up... My problem is not about me failing or passing the INL site core test... I admitt I failed and it was due to a number of things (not making excuses) (and I re-certified my DOE CORE on my own at a local testing site) but I accepted to come here already possing a DOE Core Certification  that I have been working on for quite some time now...  the fact that company B was able to have a better working repore then company A when dealing with the site has something to say for itself aswell... not to mention the effort that was shown by company B in comparison to company A... my whole piont here in regard to topic is :
If Bartlett would have made the efforts the other company made I would be working right now long side others who was given a thrid chance I look at this as a site to contract company issue why is company B given special treatment by site... and my number #1 problem with all this isnt even the testing its my travel pay ... everywhere else I have worked I was given my travel pay when I arrived and received my first per diem in a separate check with my first payroll check on payday.... I filled my obligation for the travel pay in ... I arrived at my point of contact on time and ready to work with certs in hand.... I worked 38hrs so obviously I showed up I feel I am due my travel in... the fact that I failed the site core test, I was terminated for.... that is totally understandable... they paid me for my 38 hrs of time that week so they employed me and told me Id be paid travel in and the rate I would receive... so I feel Im due my travel in...  with gas prices the way they are now and I drove my own vehicle and the wear and tear on my car and I being denyed the minimal rate I was suppose to receive for mileage is not right... my round trip will be 2366 in miles traveled now I dont expect pay to get home on but I came here employed by them and I feel I deserve travel pay in.... 

[Valkrider]

Sorry to hear your story.  There's probably no reply that will please you.  I can see other's points however.  If you can't pass the basic test you're just out of luck.  Life's not always fair and because someone else gets different treatment is no justification.  There may have been other extenuating factors in play such as better work experience, quals, attitude, etc.

If you plan to stay in the DOE world I would recommend you pursue the NRRPT qual.  It seems that most DOE sites will accept a current NRRPT cert in lieu of the DOE Core Exam.  Trust me though, the NRRPT is much harder than the Core Test, so study hard and try again.

Besides, there are better places to work than Idaho.  I escaped last year and never plan on going anywhere near that place again.  Did I just say never?       Oh well...good luck to you and yours.

[illegalsmile]

I know at some jobs I have gone to, I was expected to arrive w/ Core Card in hand or take the test on my on time, my own dime. I believe that's how it should be to avoid confusion. I also don't believe in a 3rd test.....for ANYBODY....and bring back the Oral Qual Board.

[Already Gone]

This thread is like one of those memory quilts that grandmothers used to have.  They were made out of pieces of prom dresses, curtains from the old house, baby blankets, ... etc.
It seems that in the history of a company there will always be, as there always have been, misunderstandings and incidents that one or a few employees will experience while working for that company.
Just about any of the "gripes" that have been posted here could apply to any one of us who worked for just about any company.

Tina,
Your situation has happened to a lot of people.  The "old" Numanco (not the old-old Numanco, and certainly not the original Numanco - but the last version of Numanco before it was absorbed by Bartlett) had a clause in the employee handbook that stated clearly that any person who failed to complete the in-processing/testing at any site would be paid minimum wage for the time it took to attend the training up until they were dismissed for failing.  In some cases that meant that you got $5.15 per hour, no per diem, and no travel reimbursement, and it could take up to two weeks or even longer before you even got the chance to fail out.  Some people travelled thousands of miles, paid hotel bills or rent, and went home with less than $200.  It sucked, I know.  But it made a lot of people study really hard and wait until they were sure before taking a test.

Now, I agree with some of the posts in reply to yours, and some only in part.  A person who accepts a job is responsible for having the minimum qualifications for that job before accepting it.  Things like site-specific quals, or Hazwoper, or a respirator physical, et. al. are the responsibility of the employer.  However, the ability to pass those are inherent in the minimum skills required.  That is - you should have the education and experience that is generally considered qualification to be an HP/RP/RCT before you ever accept the job AND you should have the ability to complete the training that is given by the employer and pass the tests.  So, it IS the employer's responsibility to provide certain training at their own expense, but they should not be expected to spend a nickel to train someone who isn't qualified to be there.

I don't know you.  I won't judge you.  But three attempts at a test is not reasonable.  In some cases, a second chance isn't reasonable either.  If someone scores very low on the first test, then the second test would not prove that they are trained for the job; it would only prove that they trained to take the test.  Perhaps you had test anxiety, or tried to test and retest before you were ready - or, maybe you just didn't know the stuff.  I don't know.  I assume that since you have passed a similar test that you must know enough, but it's not for me to say.

But the point is that Bartlett has no obligation to pay you for travel, or to give you per diem, or to pay you a penny above minimum wage for that matter - even IF you pass the test and start working.  The only reason that any one of us gets anything other than a flat $5.15 per hour (depending on the state) is that we agreed to the job under better terms.
If anything, Bartlett may be guilty of forgetting to tell you that you weren't going to get travel pay if you didn't pass the test.  But, you didn't ask either.
You are the same person who on another thread claimed that you didn't need a union because you could make your own deals.  I'm not going to argue the union queston in this thread.  But, part of making your own deals is getting all the terms of the deal before entering into it.  Apparently, you have learned a hard lesson this time.  I'll bet a ton of money that you will never forget to ask those questions again.
Anyway, good luck to you.  I hope you get some work real soon.

[Fermione]

I don't recall in my 27 years traveling this great country anyone failing the entrance eams being paid except for the hours actually "worked".  I think us (from the original NUMANCO, I'm talking the Pawtucket Chamber of Commerce days) ever expected monetary gain if one flunked out.  Guess things have changed when one expects to be paid when you can't meet the minimum requirements (passing NEU/core exam).  Just my two cents worth.
Fermione

[Camella Black]

I have to agree with Tina. She met her obligation of traveling in to the job and she was at the job for x amounts of days; in my humble opinion she should have recieved at the very least her per diem.

I also believe that the utility owes an explanation as to why some workers regardless of who they worked for were allowed more attempts at passing an exam that others were.

[Already Gone]

It wasn't a utility.  It was DOE.  At one of those sites, the contracts stand alone and separate from each other.  One company has a contract to demolish a system, and they hire Bartlett.  Another company has a contract to move dirt from one pile to another, and they hire MarCom.  The techs are not interchangeable, and don't all work for the same customer.

I remember a time when outages lasted longer, a lovely and very nice tech I knew took a job with NSS at an outage knowing all along that she was going to be there only until just before the outage began and then go to another outage for PSESI.  Why?  So she could collect pay and per diem instead of unemployment.  She never intended to work that outage.

It is theoretically possible to make a pretty good living by travelling from site to site, collecting travel pay and per diem at each one, and never break the plane of the fence.  If they all paid full mileage from your home address, all you'd have to do is pick a bunch of sites across country and collect better than a grand from each.  Flunk out of one site a week, and you'll be making a ton of tax-free cash.  Okay, maybe that's a little far fetched.  But, a tech who can't pass the test on the first try 95% of the time is not really a tech.  Anyone who can't pass on the second try isn't really a tech either.  The customers are paying Bartlett to hire techs who meet their criteria for qualification, and not to bring in a bunch of people who might meet the quals once if you give them enough tries at it.

The company doesn't make its money by gambling.  They need to get what they are paying for.  Maybe the other company had a more lenient contract with their customer, but they usually won't get paid for people who can't or won't produce.  If they can't bill for you, they can't pay you.  Travel is an expense that has to be amortized over a long enough period.  So, they count on getting a minimum amount of hours back to cover that expense.  It is not unlike the policy of some companies that pay for relocation.  You have to give it all back if you don't work a year for them.

Unlike the tech I mentioned above, Tina wasn't trying to "pull a fast one".  She fully intended to work as long as they would employ her.  But you have to draw the line somewhere.

[thenukeman]

I believe Bartlett met their end of the agreement but Tina did not by failing a test.  I Wish welfare worked the same way. If you have a baby once and can't pay for it maybe in my heart I can see the goverment helping but 2 or 3 no  way.  Thats what is wrong with some people in this country trying to blame others for their faults. If you fail, then whose fault is it. Should Bartlett be punished twice for some one elses stupidty, once for failing to fill a slot they were planning to be billed for and twice for paying a stupid or lazy or both person for money they did not earn by failing a test.  BOO HOO. give me a break  

My 2 cents worth about Bartlett, They have ALWAYS done what I have asked of them, treated me fairly, I always show up with a NRRPT card up to date (which by the way is about 5 times harder than NUE or DOE core)  I do not whine or blame others as it seems about 25 percent do on site. I feel for the site coordinators at some places because they seem to have to keep some of the kindergarten techs in line who are by the way the ones who cry about how unfair Bartlett is!!  BOO HOO!!

[RRhoads]

"My 2 cents worth about Bartlett, They have ALWAYS done what I have asked of them, treated me fairly, I always show up with a NRRPT card up to date (which by the way is about 5 times harder than NUE or DOE core)  I do not whine or blame others as it seems about 25 percent do on site. I feel for the site coordinators at some places because they seem to have to keep some of the kindergarten techs in line who are by the way the ones who cry about how unfair Bartlett is!!  BOO HOO!!"

Yes they do...i used to be one of em' so i was the same way..i just bitch about house tech stuff now! ....it takes some "stepping back" to see how much SOME road techs whine about "the small stuff"...But for this whole exam thing...
After traveling around for 16 years...14 of 'em as a HP tech...seems like if a person got like at least a 60% on the NUF..He got 1 more chance. That is only fair ...to the tech & the company..they are already in w/ that person to be at the site, they might as well roll the dice to see if they can get the person qualified.
I have seen a few techs score so low on the NUF that they were DFR. Pretty sucky...but that's life.
The exam is part of the process..be it DOE or Commercial side...You can either get by it or not..Can't judge  someone either way..but to say that there are circumstances for every reason why a person fails an exam.
I have always been to recognize enough material on the NUF to make a passing grade...i subscribed to the "80=100" rule!

[Eric_Bartlett]

Maybe Bartlett needs to get in tune with Atlantic and their offer letter.  Your not even an employee until you pass the training and security qualifications! RG

Give it time, i'm working on it.

Tina as far as your situation goes, I'd have to look into it...1 st score, 2nd, etc..., personnel policies, site policies, etc.. before i could make any type of reply to your previous posts.   I'll talk with the recruiter, the site folk, etc so i can get all sides of the story, then i'll weigh in with my opinion ( not that its worth a whole helluva lot) but i will get to the bottom of it and if your were done wrong, or were treated unfairly i will rectify the situation as best i can.

Eric

[Tina]

  Well I never recieved the riot act unfortunately for me... However, as I said before had I kown that I would have ask INL testing to give me more time befoe my second attempt... they told me I would take second attempt to next day and I sat their all day waiting till 3pm when they gave me my second attempt...

As for this post in general, I posted here because the thread asked about Bartlett... so since this is my first experience dealing with that company I posted my experience and compared it to a second company that is in the area (that by the way, I was'nt even employed by for all their efforts) to show the differances in style.... also I might mention I wasnt complaining about the testing out come... I feel, I re-took my DOE Core and am recertified . I lost a job and paid out of pocket for that oppertunity at a time when I had lost travel pay and per diem... I paid my dues for failing INL's site core...

Now some claim I'm whinning and all sorts of other stuff... I feel I've been compared to wellfair crooks and retards who can't pass a test... 
All I know is I felt and still feel that I fulfilled the travel in obligation... I didnt fulfill the hiring obligation by failing the second test... but thats on me and I paid for it ... one)  by losing the position and two) by having to take the DOE Core Cert at Porterhouse on my own dime...oh and Third) not recieving per diem/travel pay in ... now if I were Lazy or Stupid or anything else I wouldnt have went that far to prove my capabilities... I could have just accepted things and applied else where because I still have the DOE Core Card that I've been working on for the past few years...

I didnt post to this thread to whine I posted and usually always post to nukeworker threads to inform... this post is to inform newer RCT's that may not know (like I didnt know) that fulfilling the arrival oblication consists of more than just being on time and ready to work... see I seen it as probably some others might see it... that travel in is just that and your obligation for travel in is to show up to your point of contact on time and ready to work... and the testing for the site that you go to is what either puts you on the site to work or unemploys you ... Bartlett didnt give me the riot act on how I could lose my travel pay and per diem... they might have assumded just like I did..and we all know what asuming get us.... I do now think that an Offer Letter is vital and from now on I will insist on one and recommend that every tech gets one prior to going to a job...lesson learned.... I just have'nt had to in the past... as I stated before, I always received my travel check upon arrival and my first per diem was issued in a seperate check with my first pay check.... 

I have always felt the this site was a good place to keep people informed at the changes that might be occuring in our field... and when ever we are unclear on a site or subject we can usually look to this site for anwsers .... some techs dont realize that just because they know all the anwsers because they have been in this biz for decades that even the littlest of opions could have merrit.... I feel if new RCTs or any uninformed RCT can get on this site and remove all the (ridicule) and (thats beyond happen to me attitudes) they can leave here with a lesson learned....  hope I cleared some things up ... I have chalked this all up to a learning experience and I fully intend to get my NRRPT... I held out on that becuase of the complaint that techs were taking the NRRPT test wihout enough time on the job for experience so it made that cert not very qualifyable... you know no more than the DOE Core dose now... but if nothing else I wont have to take the DOE Core again.... and as for the DOE Core I know we like to say (never, say never) but I can almost guaranty that I will never fail that test again... 

[Rennhack]

Tina, kudos and karma to you for taking the high road and ignoring the bashers.  I'm sorry that they put you through it.

[Tina]

  Thanks Rennhack ... Hey what dosnt kill me makes me stronger

besides what kind of gal would I be if I just rolled over 
 

Ps... As my icon says there are sharks in them there waters .... 

and I do swim with um....

[let-it-ride]

To Tina,
The subject has kinda moved to the dreaded Core/NEU tests. There have been many posts about the merits, if any,for these tests. We all know of people who can take the test in 15 minutes and ace it, but who don't know the first thing about surveying an impeller. Also the people who just have a hard time with tests, but everyone on the site have complete trust in their ability to be an RCT/HP.
You are a newbie, granted, but just learn by asking questions from the people you work with. I have found that almost no one will not help and give 100% to anyone that asks for help with just about anything.
I am a little suprised that some "experts" on this site haven't tore you up for paying for the Core on your own. Some have made a point that paying for this and the Hazwhopper make you a bad person.
Just a little editorial from the past.
So, back to Bartlett and other companies.  Not everything is going to work in your favor. That is what will be true.  Just roll with the punches and try to get a good reputation as a tech and do your best. That will get you the jobs.  I have over 20 years in the business and like some of the others, could tell you some stories.
So, hang in there and good luck

[Marvin]

Makes me wonder why these "world class" facilities are not using the self-destructing electronic version of the tests as some are.  Technological advances in 2007 allow us to send tests to candidates electronically that cannot be captured, printed, copied, or otherwise compromised.  These electronic tests automatically self-destruct within the time of your choosing, and they can be proctored by eligible "proctors" at remote sites.  Sure would save a lot of grief for those borderline candidates.  Lets us know if the candidate is gonna pass before they get in the car.

Yeah, I know.  An ingenious RCT with a digital camera could snap photos of his screen.  But then we get to the next question.  Risk vs. benefit?

Course the best thing for the candidates regardless of the examination method - study till you get sick of it - then study some more.  It will get easier if you stick to it but it doesn't happen overnight.

Hi Dr. Dan.  I'll give you a positive Karma next time I get a chance.  Nice to see that you are still out there in the rad world speaking the truth (which is often unpopular).

Marvin 

[Austria]

Tina, kudos and karma to you for taking the high road and ignoring the bashers.  I'm sorry that they put you through it.

My sentiments as well, Tina. The fact that you already had a DOE Core Card and then successfully recertified on your own obviously shows that you do, in fact, know your stuff which as far as I'm concerned invalidates the arguments to the contrary. And as far as being prepared to take some industry standard tests, as proposed by another poster, I think he contradicted himself enough in his own post to show that there really is no 'standard' except to say that there are too many 'standards' out there.

As for the NRRPT, it's a tough test but the studying required to pass (at least for many of us, I'm sure) only makes us more knowledgeable and passing the test is a great confidence builder.
I would highly recommend "Radiation Protection: A Guide for Scientists, Regulators and Physicians" by Jacob Shapiro (4th Edition) as one of your study materials. It's an extremely comprehensive, well written, and professionally produced publication. I studied with a group of about 20 HPs and we all bought copies. Everyone from the tech's to the supervisors and planners thought it was an excellent resource and helped immensely with their preparations.

As far as lessons learned, I think you are right in saying that too many things are assumed on both sides of the fence. We need to let our prospective employers know what quals we DO have and verify what THEY want. And if we don't have a formal offer letter, then at least get it in an e-mail.
I have been to sites that say they want the NEU (or NUF, whatever) every 3 years. Some say 5 years. Some say if you are NRRPT you don't need a test. Some give you more money for NRRPT. So...since there still isn't a real standard out there I think you've exemplified soem important lessons learned for all of us.

[UncaBuffalo]

I would highly recommend "Radiation Protection: A Guide for Scientists, Regulators and Physicians" by Jacob Shapiro (4th Edition) as one of your study materials. It's an extremely comprehensive, well written, and professionally produced publication. I studied with a group of about 20 HPs and we all bought copies. Everyone from the tech's to the supervisors and planners thought it was an excellent resource and helped immensely with their preparations.

I agree! 

[gastech]

Tina
        I am sure that you want to here my $0.02.
    My philosophy when looking for a job nuke plant or DOE is
      1. what is the pay (hrly,PERDIEM,travel in/out,BONUSES) & what are the requirements
          to recieve each. that way you know where you stand or even if it is worth your time! 
      2. along with the pay,you know that there is always some kind of a test that you will
          have to pass.( anything from INGET to NUE/CORE) . the DOE core is only good for
          2 yrs,so you have to realize also,that if needbe you will be taking it again in 2
          yrs even if you stay employed at the same doe site. I am sure that you know there
          is a study guide on this site and practice test that are helpfull.
      3. before you go to a site ( or agree to go to a site) you should try to find out
         everything that you can like when do you have to take the test ( I know a lot of
           techs over the years that ended up driving to a site thousands of miles and
          taking the test right off the road first thing (guess what!) (there fault -TIME
          MANAGEMENT)
         kinda like job coverage CYA and don't let yourself get in a position where you are
         set up to FAIL .
       4. STUDY!,STUDY!,STUDY!, OH AND BY THE WAY!  there are I believe a few sites left
           that the test is good for life, after you pass.
                                 
                                              proud owner of GOLLNICK4
                                              NRRPT in aug 07 (woo hooo!!!)
                 

                   
           

[Tina]

  gastech that's a lot of useful info for an RCT...

I see you have your NRRPT ... would you mind giving your opinion on what kind of differance a person can expect at the time of hiring   from a Core Cert vs NRRPT if any ....

you know like (DOE Core/NGET/NEU/NUF/Site Specfics) has to be taken at each job site what could someone expect when arriving at a site with a NRRPT ...