Confused mom here

[soninbootcamp]

THis is my first post. My son is at boot camp now. He arrived on 12/20/07.  He was in the DEP program for 10 months. He just turned 18. He scored 95 on ASVAB and enlisted as a nuke.  No problems at MEPS.  I got a letter from him yesterday (which he wrote on Christmas Day) so it took 10 days to get, they must hold their mail?  Anyway, he is very upset and sad. He said he failed the color vision test.  I don't understand why they put him through at MEPS and now he can't pass. He said he has to choose another job now. He sounded very miserable about the whole thing. He even asked me to look in his Blue Jacket Manual and send him info on some of the ratings becuase he knows nothing about other fields.  Shouldn't they have someone at boot camp to help him with that choice? Won't they want him to get into a field that requires a higher ASVAB score? 

I did read a post on this board dated about one year ago that is similar. It sounds like many in this situation were changed to corpsman.  My son wouldn't want to do that.  He mentioned something about crypto in his letter, but would he be able to do that rate if he is color blind?  Please forgive me, I just don't know anything about the Navy. It is all new to us. This is very disappointing. For 10 months he was planning his career as a nuke worker and now it has been taken away from him along with his rank and enlistment bonus.

I did call his recruiter after I got the letter and he sounded shocked. He said he was going to call Great Lakes and see if he could find out anything.  The recruiter mentioned that his contract would be void because he was guaranteed nuclear power. He said they should have given him the option of going home or choosing another rate. Is that true?  From the tone of my son's letter I believe he would have jumped at the chance to come home.

I do think if he could get a good rate that it would be best for him to stay in and give the Navy a shot.  If nothing else, when his enlistment is up he could get out and go to college.

Any thoughts or advice?

Thanks for listening. I needed to vent. I feel very helpless right now.

Sally

[soninbootcamp]

Jason,
Thanks for the quick reply. The worst part is not knowing what has happened since he wrote the letter.  I just wish we had been able to talk to him and help him with this. I know he is 18 and should be able to make his own decisions, but that has got to be tough when everything changed on him so quickly. 

Sally

[mlslstephens]

Jason,
Thanks for the quick reply. The worst part is not knowing what has happened since he wrote the letter.  I just wish we had been able to talk to him and help him with this. I know he is 18 and should be able to make his own decisions, but that has got to be tough when everything changed on him so quickly. 

Sally

Sally,
Eighteen is still young and the fact that his letter was dated 25 Dec also is a clue here to what could be really going on.  Christmas is tough on guys (and girls) in boot camp...now he's just been given news that seemingly changes his whole life.  As Jason mentioned, he needs to take a breath and realize that his world isn't ending.  He might be headed down a different path, or maybe the same path with a twist.  First, he needs to be reevaluated and then we should see what the options are.  We might be days late talking about this, but hopefully he doesn't make a long term decision based on what seems like a short term circumstance.

I've loved the Navy for over 22 years and they have taken good care of me and my family.  I've always been a nuke, but I've been fortunate enough to lead many other ratings that are just as "proud", capable, and paid quite well with enlistment bonuses.  Us nukes like to think we are the shiznit, but it is a big world out there and we make up a very small percentage of the navy.  

He should be graduating around the end of Feb so there still is time to write him, with a positive attitude, and encourage him on some good ideas.

Does he have any college?  What kind of things is he interested in?

X

[ISOCS]

Sally, sorry to hear about your son. How come his color blindness was never addressed in the first place? Does he really have color blindness or was he nervous when tested? Anyway, if he really is color blind he cannot be a Navy Nuke. It's not the end of the world. Has he considered the Advanced Electronics Field? They probably have computer fields that weren't even offered to me in 1974. I don't believe it will be beneficial for him to leave right now and come home. If he was originally offered Nuke then he's got smarts and should qualify for another "smart" field.
Good Luck.
ISOCS

[soninbootcamp]

Thank you all for your support. I do feel better.  My son is very strong in math and originally wanted to go to college and major in math.  Then his AP Physics teacher had him talk to a Navy guy about nuke and well that is the road he took.

Do you think they would rush him to choose a rate right away or will they give him time? He has only been there two weeks.  Also, won't it depend on if the rate he chooses is available now or not?  

I hope I didn't give the impression that I think he should be able to come home now. But if he should be given that option, I hope they do tell him that.

OK, while I was typing this his recruiter called. He talked to several people at Great Lakes including an RDC and reclassifier. He said that they are going to be doing another vision test soon.  He hasn't officially been dropped out of nuke yet. If he doesn't pass the next test, he will be counseled by the reclassifier on other jobs he is qualified for and given options then.

So I do feel a little better. Recruiter said with his high ASVAB score they will do everything to keep him in the Navy and in a good job.  

Sally

[deltarho]

Back when...ETs and EMs and ICs could not be color blind, but MMs could have the pallet of a white-tail deer.  MMs were not expected to work with wiring nor any resistor band colors and the like...

Furthermore, the AEF or Advanced Electronics Field also required a pallet far more technicolor than said deer.

It is what it is, back when...if you were disqualified for a reason other than your fault (fault examples: cheating, underage drinking, demonstrated unreliablility as proven by a violation of the UCMJ, etc.) then they quickly signed a new contract for a guaranteed rate before you realized that they were in breach of contract and asked to go home with no adverse administrative or punitive damage to your future.

Thoughts to ponder, based on back when...

[Gamecock]

Here is  some more info...

In general, if you can't get the job guaranteed due to something beyond your control (such as the service phased out the job, or downsized the job, or made a mistake and discovered that you don't qualify for the job, or you are denied a security clearance -- not due to giving false information), then you will be given the choice of applying for a discharge, or choosing a new job from a list of available jobs that you qualify for. In this case, the choice is yours.

Oh....and an Entry Level Seperation is neither honorable or dishonorable in nature...it is its own characterization of service.

[deltarho]

It is actually a good negotiating position to be in...Someone dropped the ball, not him.  So, he will have a choice and it will be a more informed choice at this stage.  I would ask for Non-Destructive Testing and Welding...$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Roll Tide]

It is actually a good negotiating position to be in...Someone dropped the ball, not him.  So, he will have a choice and it will be a more informed choice at this stage.  I would ask for Non-Destructive Testing and Welding...$$$$$$$$$$$$

I had a buddy at NNPS back in 1984 that was deemed unqualified for nuclear due to a skin condition (dermititis? I don't remember which specific condition, and I didn't ask to see it!). He said he would only take Crypto if he couldn't be a nuke. Months later, they would explain that there were no Crypto slots, and he would have to choose something else. He would respond that he didn't want anything else, so they would try to get a Crypto slot again.

I don't even know if the Navy has Crypto anymore, but the point is that they will give him almost anything to stay in. And they will give him the opportunity to research it before he has to sign anything (or he won't sign...)

[deltarho]

(or he won't sign...)

WORD UP!  This my dear frantic mother is the takeaway from our collective wisdom.  He's got them by the short ones.

I would have killed to be in that position.  I, instead, played the numbers game, but didn't understand the rules completely and was denuked for not being top 2/3s of my class at my 16 week point.  I was number 15 of 16, but we started with 25.  So, doing modified RadCon math; postion 16 or better is 2/3s of 25--and I was #15!  One problem though--they based it on the number of students left at the 16 weeks.  Bummer to be me. 

So, I was given the option to be an instant Botswains Mate or continue as AEF.  I asked if that was it, and I was told, "No, you can write a letter to Admiral Rickover and try to convince him that he should allow you in his school.  But, I never saw anyone get approved."  This was said by the Senior Chief Nuclear Advisor by the name of -----sson.  17 years later I got Temporary Early Retirement Authorization (TERA, another reason for you tubers to hate skimmers) and retired with full bennies (minus 5% of my base pay for my stipend) as an ETCS(SW) nuke.

Determination is the name of the game...trust me, I know smart people.  I see smart people around me all the time, but never in the mirror.  My roommate in ET/A couldn't believe the God/country/mother/apple pie and "if you think your school is good enough to teach it, I can learn it" statements got me reinstated.  "Balls," said the queen, "If I had them, I'd be king."

[Fla Jackal]

i was in boot camp just 1 year ago and im sure your son will be getting good information from his chain of command. the navy does not like to lose nukes so im sure they will be doing every thing in there power to keep him a nuke. but as previously stated he should have the option to leave the navy due to the navy breaking his contract if he is denuked. but there are other good jobs out there in the navy, being color blind will limit him but if he is denuked his contract will be shortened to 4 years most likely depending on the field. either way there are advantages to staying in even as another field and if your son was smart enough to potentialy be a nuke he will probably excell in any other field. and he will still be eligible for the GI bill which when i was in boot camp gave you 32000 dollars for you putting in 1200 dollars. either way your son does it stay in as a non nuke or get out he will still be in a decent situation. and be ready for a phone call he should be getting one very soon, also write him as often as possible there was nothing better then getting mail in boot camp just dont send anything other then a letter and pictures.

[Already Gone]

I failed that test too.  I still fail that test.  Almost 25% of all males fail that test on any given day.  If he can't pass it, there are several options open to him.  Being disqualified as a nuke for the color vision test is not the worst thing that ever happened to anyone.  There are some jobs available to him that are a lot more high-tech than being a nuke, and probably more marketable after the Navy too.  They should be able to find something that he will like that is also challenging.  The Navy doesn't like to waste IQ points just because you have trouble telling dark green from s**t-brown in poor lighting.

[JustinHEMI05]

Thank you all for your support. I do feel better.  My son is very strong in math and originally wanted to go to college and major in math.  Then his AP Physics teacher had him talk to a Navy guy about nuke and well that is the road he took.

Do you think they would rush him to choose a rate right away or will they give him time? He has only been there two weeks.  Also, won't it depend on if the rate he chooses is available now or not? 

I hope I didn't give the impression that I think he should be able to come home now. But if he should be given that option, I hope they do tell him that.

OK, while I was typing this his recruiter called. He talked to several people at Great Lakes including an RDC and reclassifier. He said that they are going to be doing another vision test soon.  He hasn't officially been dropped out of nuke yet. If he doesn't pass the next test, he will be counseled by the reclassifier on other jobs he is qualified for and given options then.

So I do feel a little better. Recruiter said with his high ASVAB score they will do everything to keep him in the Navy and in a good job. 

Sally

Well that is good news. Tons of good advice and support here. Please keep us posted. I will keep you and yours in my prayers.

Justin

[Fermi2]

Ok what test does the navy use for Color Blindness? it has to be different from the one they use for Licensed Operators because I've never heard of the results changing on that test.

Mike

[mikec426]

At my MEPS they do 2 color vision tests.  The first one is a Picture-In-Picture test, if they fail that, they take the Falant (spell??) test, if that's passed, then they are considered to have color vision.  They are given the tests again in boot camp.  And that second test, I think, shows you a number of things, if you see a certain number, you pass.  If you only saw the minimum number, then when the test is given again at boot camp, if you see one less, you fail.

I apologize for being so vague.

I know that prior to shipping to boot camp, if an applicant is determined to be color blind at MEPS, then they can go to 2 independent doctors.  If the 2 doctors give passing results on a color vision test, MEPS will accept those results.  I don't know if that avenue is available once someone has already shipped to boot camp.

[owsi84621]

The comments about the color tests are correct. If he decides to stay in he can go to any field that does not require color vision. ie: electronics and a few others.

[rlbinc]

In the old days, I was told I was colorblind.
I originally failed the color dots that are supposed to look like numbers.

I passed the Farnsworth Lantern. (Red / White / Yellow / Green points of light)
I was an RO for eight years in the USN and was NRC Licensed after that.

(I passed the NRC physical examination, which was the color dots.)

The wife insists I'm color blind.

IMHO - the needs of the Navy exceed the ability to discriminate color.

[ddklbl]

IMHO - the needs of the Navy ______ the ability to __________  _______.
                                             verb                        verb         noun

We could just modify your quote à la MAD magazine and fit it to just about any discussion.  Alfred Neuman would have never been more correct in doing so.

[rlbinc]

True. I guess I was pretty well assimilated thirty years ago.
"The needs of the Navy..." preceded just about every statement or policy.

I also noticed that it was easier to get qualified when the watchstanders were on Port and Starboard. Who knew...

[soninbootcamp]

First I would like to thank everyone for their comments and ideas of what could possibly be going on with my son. I really appreciate your help.

We did get a letter from him a few days ago and he mentioned that he had failed the color vision test three times. I figured he is out of the nuclear field.

Then today a very short phone call!  He said that he was given a waiver for the test by a doctor there.  Great! But now he says he has to have an ultrasound tomorrow because he may have a hernia or something??  Would a hernia be disqualifying for the nuke field or the Navy in general? 

Anyway he did say that he talked to a reclassifier and was given a list of rates he would qualify for if he can't get into the nuke field. He said he will probably go with cryptology if he has to switch jobs. It is all kind of a blur to me. I was surprised to get a call from him today and then he had such a brief amount of time to talk. 

Thanks again to you all!!!  I have learned so much from this board. I have been a lurker for several months trying to get as much info as I could about what it all is really like.

[ddklbl]

The only thing I would concern myself with, and this is general medical advice for your son, be careful about what medicines they give him on the backside.  Assuming he stays in the program, many medicines are nuke disqualifying.  I never knew which ones where which.  I have always just resorted to asking everytime I was given a prescription, even if it seemed innocuous.  You would think that the doctor would know what to give him, but your son will learn that the Navy has many internal groups that don't talk to each other as often as they should. 

Crypto wouldn't be a bad alternative if he chose to...

[JustinHEMI05]

Thanks for the update! Continued good thoughts and prayers for the both of you.

Justin

[Wareal]

Sincere thanks and gratitude to all of you that have served.  Sharing your knowledge is a great help to those of us who have children in the military.

I was never in the military.  My son graduated Prototype last September and is now a SPU at Ballston Spa.  I appreciate your wealth of knowledge on everything Navy Nuclear.  Until recently, I never understood the sacrifice of those in the military.  Thank you again for your service.

[RodBottom]

Sincere thanks and gratitude to all of you that have served.  Sharing your knowledge is a great help to those of us who have children in the military.

I was never in the military.  My son graduated Prototype last September and is now a SPU at Ballston Spa.  I appreciate your wealth of knowledge on everything Navy Nuclear.  Until recently, I never understood the sacrifice of those in the military.  Thank you again for your service.

Do you know which plant he is at? If he's at MARF, PM me please. (if you don't mind.) I just left NY a few months ago.

[Wareal]

He's at S8G...

[soninbootcamp]

Well it has been almost one month now, but we finally got information on my son's rating. It looks like he is going to be a nuke.  He will be leaving for South Carolina after bootcamp. His first choice was ET, but he didn't get that.  His rate is MM.  I don't know how he is going to like that, I can't imagine him doing anything mechanical!  He is such a math whiz and did so well on his ASVAB, I am surprised he didn't get his first choice. But after doing some research I understand that nothing is guaranteed and that it all depends on what the Navy needs.  I am just very happy that he gets to remain in the field he signed up for! PLUS we get to see him at PIR in only two weeks!

I was such a basketcase when we first thought we was being dropped from nuke because of his color blindness, I just wanted to give an update that things are looking up, I hope!

[Marlin]

Well it has been almost one month now, but we finally got information on my son's rating. It looks like he is going to be a nuke.  He will be leaving for South Carolina after bootcamp. His first choice was ET, but he didn't get that.  His rate is MM.  I don't know how he is going to like that, I can't imagine him doing anything mechanical!  He is such a math whiz and did so well on his ASVAB, I am surprised he didn't get his first choice. But after doing some research I understand that nothing is guaranteed and that it all depends on what the Navy needs.  I am just very happy that he gets to remain in the field he signed up for! PLUS we get to see him at PIR in only two weeks!

I was such a basketcase when we first thought we was being dropped from nuke because of his color blindness, I just wanted to give an update that things are looking up, I hope!

   Don't worry about the rating. I went through the same thing. I initially was going to enter the Navy in advanced electronics (missiles) but had to go the nuke pipeline because it filled before I swore in. When I got to bootcamp I was selected as a MM even though I had outscored several who got ET. My recruiter said don't sweat it your electrical scores will virtually gauntee an ET slot, he will have to get used to the "needs of the Navy". This is just the first step and he has a long road ahead of him. If he is interested in plant operations MM is a better route in my opinion anyway. The electrician and electronic technician routes tend to lead to maintenace positions in the commercial world though nothing is written in stone for anyone. Today I am very happy with the path I took through the Navy. With the number of nuclear plants in the planning stages he probably will have a lot of opportunity shortly after leaving in 6 or 20 years, you never know.
   Good luck to him and you, I know that you worry but as long as he applies himself he will do well. The Navy likes to bring in people they think will succeed, it costs them too much in critical rates like his not to.

[JustinHEMI05]

Well it has been almost one month now, but we finally got information on my son's rating. It looks like he is going to be a nuke.  He will be leaving for South Carolina after bootcamp. His first choice was ET, but he didn't get that.  His rate is MM.  I don't know how he is going to like that, I can't imagine him doing anything mechanical!  He is such a math whiz and did so well on his ASVAB, I am surprised he didn't get his first choice. But after doing some research I understand that nothing is guaranteed and that it all depends on what the Navy needs.  I am just very happy that he gets to remain in the field he signed up for! PLUS we get to see him at PIR in only two weeks!

I was such a basketcase when we first thought we was being dropped from nuke because of his color blindness, I just wanted to give an update that things are looking up, I hope!

Congratulations! To avoid being miserable if he had his heart set on ET, then you need to be positive and support him. I am sure he will be just fine as an MM, but if he isn't happy, his career is going to suck the whole time. You need to encourage him to embrace his new job and find positive ways of supporting him. Seen many many EM/ ET first choicers come through as MMs just completely miserable and angry at the Navy. I am not trying to scare you, I am just telling you what I saw as an instructor, and hopefully offering advice on how to not let that happen to him. I think positive support from you will be key. Then again, he could already be just fine with it... just be sure, because I have seen the other side like Marlin... where they were perfectly fine with it and better off.

Justin

[soninbootcamp]

Marlin and Justin,

Thank you for your input.  I do agree about being supportive. I admit I was a little disappointed that he didn't get the rate he "wanted" but it was short lived.  In his letter he did say he was fine with it and he was happy.  I know he spoke with a classifier before he filled out his "wish list" so he must have been told or read what the job is about.  He is the one who listed it as 2nd choice.  I immediately sent him a congratulations card for getting his rate and reminded him how proud we are of him.

Sally

[JustinHEMI05]

Marlin and Justin,

Thank you for your input.  I do agree about being supportive. I admit I was a little disappointed that he didn't get the rate he "wanted" but it was short lived.  In his letter he did say he was fine with it and he was happy.  I know he spoke with a classifier before he filled out his "wish list" so he must have been told or read what the job is about.  He is the one who listed it as 2nd choice.  I immediately sent him a congratulations card for getting his rate and reminded him how proud we are of him.

Sally

Awesome! I am very happy for the both of you!

Justin

[Cycoticpenguin]

In the old days, I was told I was colorblind.
I originally failed the color dots that are supposed to look like numbers.

I passed the Farnsworth Lantern. (Red / White / Yellow / Green points of light)
I was an RO for eight years in the USN and was NRC Licensed after that.

(I passed the NRC physical examination, which was the color dots.)

The wife insists I'm color blind.

IMHO - the needs of the Navy exceed the ability to discriminate color.

haha same thing happened to me at meps. I failed many, many, many, many times on those color tests. with the lantern test, I literally went through it until i happened to guess right

sally- haha heres the deal... I can only think of a FEW mechanics who actually wanted MM. In a couple months he will grow to pride his rate and bash the others, just as Im sure everyone else has before and will do after him. Tell him he's lucky! He makes E4 in 3 months instead of 6!