How would you fix the NNPP

[retread]

Bravo, if you're too stupid to pass nuke school in six months studying as much as you think you can handle you don't belong anywhere near a nuclear reactor, the fleet always needs more paint chippers, mess cranks and stores handlers.

Another good one, why in the hell are my tax dollars paying for some non-qual nub student to get a minimum of six months of easy training with three and five day mini-vacations every month when their dink non-qual ass could be field daying a boat for six days out of seven when tied up to a pier or underway?!?!!?

Why are my tax dollars paying these goobers to go to college for six months while they are on prototype hold lounging around in a BEQ? They could be in the fleet field daying and giving the qualified and hard to retain sea going nukes a break?!?!?!?!

Now that's a complicated one, cops and firefighters are expected to be in shape too,...

I would gladly trade you five hours a week out of forty for you to keep in shape. Just give me back all my tax dollars spent on free of charge fitness gyms, swimming pools, golf courses, indoor basketball courts, baseball fields, and all those other taxpayer subsidised physical fitness amenities.

At the end of the day be careful what you ask for, you might just get it,...

Sorry for the late response but I've been out of town and away from a computer for a while.  Marssim, you sure SunDog didn't take over your soul when you wrote this?  Gotta tell you I loved it as I do with most of Dog's cynical remarks!

[Cycoticpenguin]

The current 10+ month wait between depping in and shipping to bootcamp for the Nuke program makes it hard to get more bodies to the fleet - regardless of pass rates through the pipeline.  As far as getting more bodies to the fleet is concerned the current bottle neck lies with spaces at NNPTC and Prototype, not with number of applicants.  Filtering the applicants more rigorously BEFORE wasting a seat in A-school could be done right now without an impact to new nukes to the fleet.  Graduating classes of 18 instead of 25-30 imply more people do not make it through the program in a timely manner than what the standards desire.

I know this is the problem Perhaps  getting rid of prototype and expanding power school.... Allow ALL instructors to get the "sweet powerschool" shore duty thing would ALSO improve retention... but then again i did see a few clowns that had no business being in powerschool goto prototype...

This would allow a higher influx of students, while enticing people to reenlist... But I know we're never gonna get over the Jesus. H. Rickover mentality that his 60 year old ideals are still perfect today.

[andrewnavy]

I know how to fix it.  Rip out the core and in its place put a big diesel engine.  Then convert all nukes to conventional rates and run the engine room old school.  As my first ENG said "that was when men were men."  He was also an idiot though so I could be wrong.  I will say, you know what happens if diesel leaks out? You just fix the leak, clean it up, and move on.

[JustinHEMI05]

I personally think we should just moth ball the entire nuclear fleet. Honestly, in today's world, do we really need all these nucular ships anyway?

[Cycoticpenguin]

I know how to fix it.  Rip out the core and in its place put a big diesel engine.  Then convert all nukes to conventional rates and run the engine room old school.  As my first ENG said "that was when men were men."  He was also an idiot though so I could be wrong.  I will say, you know what happens if diesel leaks out? You just fix the leak, clean it up, and move on.

Tell that to Tony Hayward haha

[OldHP]

But I know we're never gonna get over the Jesus. H. Rickover mentality that his 60 year old ideals are still perfect today.

Watch the use of that 60+ CM, (or I may take it personal  ) the ideals are probably still good today; however, the implementation is not the same.

I personally think we should just moth ball the entire nuclear fleet. Honestly, in today's world, do we really need all these nucular ships anyway?

Why do we even have a military at all, we are a peaceful nation!

[Cycoticpenguin]

Watch the use of that 60+ CM, (or I may take it personal  ) the ideals are probably still good today; however, the implementation is not the same.



Why do we even have a military at all, we are a peaceful nation!

I take it the "Old" In "oldHp" is literal? :p

I agree that his ideals are poignant and pertinent today, but we just dropped 4 billion dollars to refurbish a carrier just to say it would last 50 years.... I dont understand why we have to take everything he said and wanted to heart without thinking about it... Im sure there's a "big picture" my narrow mind cant see, but it seems like everything should be re-evaluated personally.

[HydroDave63]

but it seems like everything should be re-evaluated personally.

The "Oprah force" is strong in this one!


If I "feel" the program is a success, then it must be, right? Fewer chiefs, more Zen Masters^TM !!

[Sun Dog]

The "Oprah force" is strong in this one!

Never under estimate the force of a $4B net worth Orca!  She landed a coup getting a presidential favorite and convicted felon animal abuser to open his heart.

"Oprah has won her bet with Piers Morgan about who would book Michael Vick on their show first."

[Gamecock]

Never under estimate the force of a $4B net worth Orca!  She landed a coup getting a presidential favorite and convicted felon animal abuser to open his heart.

"Oprah has won her bet with Piers Morgan about who would book Michael Vick on their show first."

Mike Vick cancelled on her today

[OldHP]

I take it the "Old" In "oldHp" is literal? :p

I agree that his ideals are poignant and pertinent today, but we just dropped 4 billion dollars to refurbish a carrier just to say it would last 50 years.... I dont understand why we have to take everything he said and wanted to heart without thinking about it... Im sure there's a "big picture" my narrow mind cant see, but it seems like everything should be re-evaluated personally.

I agree, we could probably build at least two new ones for 4 billion.  If we were talking 4 million, I'd say why not, She's a beautiful baby! 

And 'old' is just a number - I don't feel that way, I've just been around the industry for a long time and a lot of different views.  Just a pointer on capitalization: Me - "OldHP" and 'old Hp' - are two different folks, although I haven't seen anything from the other person in a while.

[Cycoticpenguin]

I agree, we could probably build at least two new ones for 4 billion.  If we were talking 4 million, I'd say why not, She's a beautiful baby! 

And 'old' is just a number - I don't feel that way, I've just been around the industry for a long time and a lot of different views.  Just a pointer on capitalization: Me - "OldHP" and 'old Hp' - are two different folks, although I haven't seen anything from the other person in a while.

True, but we have a lot of 20 year old carriers that could really use type two instrumentation!!!

Just my thoughts anyway


and LOL! I love how oprah got dragged into this haha

[spekkio]

Nope, you will never convince anyone you had a reactor accident because of too many procedures, tag outs or officers,....

No, that just prevents boats from getting to sea on time and millions of wasted taxpayer dollars, but Big Navy either doesn't care or figures out a way to make it look better than it is. The reactor accident will be from a broken qualification process that we cling to when there's a better way.

+1 to CM and AndrewNavy. Let me ask you this...when you were in, did Sailors only have 2/5 full working days to do maintenance during maintenance availabilities because the rest of the time was taken up with mandatory training, meetings, and other superfluous stuff?

[Cycoticpenguin]

No, that just prevents boats from getting to sea on time and millions of wasted taxpayer dollars, but Big Navy either doesn't care or figures out a way to make it look better than it is. The reactor accident will be from a broken qualification process that we cling to when there's a better way.

+1 to CM and AndrewNavy. Let me ask you this...when you were in, did Sailors only have 2/5 full working days to do maintenance during maintenance availabilities because the rest of the time was taken up with mandatory training, meetings, and other superfluous stuff?

Ooh bitter already I can did. We had "work hours" on deployment, but that lasted like... a week. I was "in charge" for the last year or so in the navy, got permission from my chief to cut people when work was done. I cracked the whip when it needed to be, but the end goal was to get everyone out of that god awful place as much as possible. Occasionally "work hours" were implemented when the RO would walk around and find a huge ton of discrepencies, but we honestly truly respected him, and we worked hard FOR HIM because he took such great care of us. His successor has ENORMOUS shoes to fill.

Now, I was in port for ... maybe 6 months my entire tenure on my boat (not kidding or exaggerating, and shipyards DONT count as "in port", at least not to me) so I cant speak very well for that.

[andrewnavy]

That sounds about right. The way we battled back was by being proactive.  I always made my SEO's get all the tools and materials staged for the next days work while we were on the mid watch. When the EDO got in for his 0600 tour, we hung tags and got permission to work.  The SEO on my shift usually had a turnover at the drain/PLO pump, precipitator, epm, or motor generator.  They will not give you more time to do maintenance unless it will keep the ship from going to sea.  In my experience they never cared how late you stayed as long as they did not have to call the CO to get permission for you to work past 6pm in port.  At the end of the day, you are the master of your destiny. If you want to get work done and go home, you must find little ways that will cut down the amount work in the work day.  I won't say I did it (yes I did), but midnight maintenance really knocked a dent in our workload.  I would say the thing that best impacted our work was teaching the nubs this mentality and always be the last to leave.  Work you a** off and they will want to work for you.  Just don't do anything that will get you into trouble (or your guys). 

Good luck and that time on whatever ship you are on will go by faster than you think.

[LaFeet]

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2011/01/navy-nuke-recruiting-gets-tougher-013011w/

The Navy has one idea to try to fix it...  After reading this I got a somewhat controversial idea.  Require applicants to be over 21 years old to enlist as a NUCLEAR MM/EM/ET.  Allow applicants 18-21 to apply as an MM/EM/ET with a nuclear option in the future, but do not allow them to begin nuclear training until 21.

I know of far more people who do not make it through the program due to underage drinking than who failed math...

WOW   when I was at Nuke School the drinking age was actually 18.... I guess they would have had to take on board some kids younger than that for the underage drinking to take effect.

We managed to help each other out (I was in section 14) by studying together... of course when ever I could you would see me out on the town  Loved OBT....especially SPIT on Wednesday night...

[LaFeet]

True, but we have a lot of 20 year old carriers that could really use type two instrumentation!!!

Just my thoughts anyway


and LOL! I love how oprah got dragged into this haha

Wait   are you guys still using MAGAMPS ?

[LaFeet]

The Sturgeon was a great boat - my first as SS Engr - and the 637 Class a great bunch of boats.  The work-horses of their time.

And very true each S5W, "Boomer and Fast Attack" was very different!

Sturgeons were neat, but not the BEST..... here comes a Narwhal  aint that right Terry

[OldHP]

Sturgeons were neat, but not the BEST..... here comes a Narwhal  aint that right Terry

Narwhal got me 5 weeks in ID (in the summer) figuring out how to set up for the Shield Survey the S5W's were easy we had a template.

8102 Section 7 had at least 1 in Orlando, he turned 18 before he shipped off to B-Spa, alas the minimum age in NY was 21, I think he was an E-6, ERS and SS before he could legally drink,... 

Until the Fed forced the voting age to 18 ("you can drink in most states at 18 so you should be able to vote") and the drinking age to 21 ("people are more responsible at 21") [same folks voting on it ], NY was 18.  Drove several nights from CT to NY for a beer or two.

The more things change, the more things stay the same,....

Good commands and bad commands,....

Some sailors get lucky, some don't,....

Son of a gun - that is right back on the subject how do you fix it - "eliminate the bad commands"!  Simple, except you have to identify them first!   

[LaFeet]

8102 Section 7 had at least 1 in Orlando, he turned 18 before he shipped off to B-Spa, alas the minimum age in NY was 21, I think he was an E-6, ERS and SS before he could legally drink,... 

wait   Marssim  you were in 8102?  So was I....hmmmmmmmmmm  do you recall a guy rollerskating on base a lot???

[withroaj]

A while back when this thread started I had some strong opinions on the topic.  I had a lot more time remaining on my contract and envisioned a program that could be molded to become my dream job.  I've come to the realization that the organization doesn't need to improve to satisfy my little needs because it already is exactly what it needs to be.

It's all summed up in the quote below.

No debate anywhere, anytime is ever going to fix or change that, it's just part of the deal, if you do not like it, do not join or do not re-enlist, it's the military, the entire paradigm of military life is different than being a civilian.

The military exists to kill people and break things,.....period.

The rules are different,......period.

When you're new in the game it's you against "the Man."  If you bust your ass (or just stick around long enough) you'll be in charge, and it's time to put your money where your mouth is.  It's not hard to do, but one thing becomes apparent:  The program really does work (objective: continued safe operation of naval nuclear propulsion plants). 

Leadership below about O-5 can pretty much only make temporary, local contributions to the work environment; but leadership isn't necessarily dependent on your rank or appointed position.  You can issue guidance, write instructions, set policies, but they just cover your small piece of the delicious nuclear pie and they only last until your relief has a different idea.  If you fight for your people they'll work for you.  If they produce good results (not an ELT joke) you don't necessarily have to fight for them anymore because your bosses will notice that your methods work and let you run the show.  If you're an ineffective leader you won't find out until it's too late.

If you can't embrace the vision it's time to finish your contract and move on.  If the organization can't satisfy your professional goals, finish your contract and move on.

[drayer54]

I think I would go back if I could stand watch in minimal clothing, have a cigar on watch, grow facial hair underway, and make it understood that I am to be called Derek. I also would want access to the galley so I could cook my own food (think homie hook up type food).... An no limitations on cowboy boots.... That would be enough and ohh yeah, I agree with the guy below. You can try and try to change things, but they always end up the same. There is no Obama in the nuke world....

[JustinHEMI05]

After all of this, I recommend teaching some fundamentals, more.

An ex-Navy nuke friend of mine, who has zero commercial experienced, decided to educate me by saying if the Japanese plants were PWRs, they would be better off because of the boron.

I said, "Oh yeah? Do you realize they are shut down? How would their borated coolant have been better off?"

He replies with;

"Yeah, I know they are shut down, but if they are still generating nuetrons, then the boron would have helped to minimize heat generation, right?"

[spekkio]

The more things change, the more things stay the same,....

Good commands and bad commands,....

Some sailors get lucky, some don't,....

Sounds simple, but the tough question starts with how do you define a "bad command?" How does this definition change between being an E-5/E-6 to being the Squadron Commodore?

[Cycoticpenguin]

Sounds simple, but the tough question starts with how do you define a "bad command?" How does this definition change between being an E-5/E-6 to being the Squadron Commodore?

I need to stop you right here. this will merely spin off a crazy debate and this thread will ultimately get locked

Its been discussed before! haha