A couple of commercial questions

[rlbinc]

... no battleshort...  

Hate to break it to ya, BC, Duane Arnold's Emergency Operating Procedure RPS Logic Defeat Keylocks, when turned, illuminate lights labeled BATTLESHORT.
And that's not a sea story.

[Already Gone]

Hate to break it to ya, BC, Duane Arnold's Emergency Operating Procedure RPS Logic Defeat Keylocks, when turned, illuminate lights labeled BATTLESHORT.
And that's not a sea story.

Actually, that's kinda cool.

[RAD-GHOST]

Also, this week the National Geographic Channel (I think) had a fictional show called "Aftermath"—what would happen if the human race disappeared.  Of course, they had to address the nuclear disasters that would occur.  The show didn't address operational plants but described how the "400 tons" of spent fuel in the "spent fuel" buildings across the country would release "more radioactivity than the bombs from WWII."  It depicted the spent fuel cells submerged in huge tanks of water for them to "cool down."  Any truth to it all and would the environment be at risk if the electricity supplying the buildings were to go away?

Hummmm.........I believe that would leave Politicians, Bankers and Lawyers!   

BIG QUESTION, would you really care?   

RIP....RG!

[withroaj]

Would a Navy nuke feller such as myself be able to tour a commercial plant?  We can tour all the Navy (decay heat) plants, and I do my best to see all our program has to offer (only missing SSN-21 class, and they are all on the West Coast now).  I live right near Seabrook Station for another ten days or so, and I would really like to get a chance to check out a big kids' plant.

[JustinHEMI05]

Would a Navy nuke feller such as myself be able to tour a commercial plant?  We can tour all the Navy (decay heat) plants, and I do my best to see all our program has to offer (only missing SSN-21 class, and they are all on the West Coast now).  I live right near Seabrook Station for another ten days or so, and I would really like to get a chance to check out a big kids' plant.

Others will have to chime in, as I am not sure of any federal rules regarding it, but at my plant you can tour the simulator and stuff outside the power block. That means no real plant stuff like the turbine or reactor buildings. I think its more of a dose issue than anything.

Justin

[withroaj]

That probably wouldn't really give a picture of the size and scope of the plant, would it?  Or do the control panels have the simplified schematics on them like RPCP desk sections?

[Gamecock]

Interesting that this should be brought up today......

I'm scheduled to tour Seabrook tomorrow with a group of guys from MIT.  I was hoping we'd get to see the plant. 

Withroaj.....Seabrook has a Visitor's Center....I'll let you know if it would be worth your time to go check it out.

[withroaj]

Interesting that this should be brought up today......

I'm scheduled to tour Seabrook tomorrow with a group of guys from MIT.  I was hoping we'd get to see the plant. 

Withroaj.....Seabrook has a Visitor's Center....I'll let you know if it would be worth your time to go check it out.

Timing could not be more on my side for my question.  I would really appreciate that.

[RDTroja]

Would a Navy nuke feller such as myself be able to tour a commercial plant?  We can tour all the Navy (decay heat) plants, and I do my best to see all our program has to offer (only missing SSN-21 class, and they are all on the West Coast now).  I live right near Seabrook Station for another ten days or so, and I would really like to get a chance to check out a big kids' plant.

Pre 9/11 easy. Post 9/11 not so easy. Most plants no longer give tours inside the protected area (i.e. past security fence.) I am sure there are some exceptions, but very rare. Most plants have Visitor Centers. Calvert Cliffs closed theirs on 9/11 and never reopened it.

Back in the usta years, you could take your family on a tour of most of the plants. One plant I was working in the very early 80s had a tour for about 50 clerks and secretaries  one night...actually took them into containment! Started with the VP's secretary wanting a tour and ballooned from there. Very interesting at the S.O.P.

[withroaj]

Does a security clearance mean anything around those parts?  Maybe I could bring in a copy?  Though now that I put it out there I think I would probably look like a big dingleberry (not that that's ever stopped me before -- see my previous posts in other topics).

[RDTroja]

A security clearance means everything... if the utility issued it to you (or their contractor who is willing to sign the 'good guy' letter.) The letter basically say you have been under continuous observation (normal workdays, minimum) since your last clearance and there are no unaccounted for gaps of employment for >30 days. Any gaps of employment must be accounted for with a supplemental form and people that will vouch that they know you have not been attending the Yassir Arafat School of Charm during your absence from work... or making regular trips to Cali or Medellin.

[withroaj]

A security clearance means everything... if the utility issued it to you (or their contractor who is willing to sign the 'good guy' letter.) The letter basically say you have been under continuous observation (normal workdays, minimum) since your last clearance and there are no unaccounted for gaps of employment for >30 days. Any gaps of employment must be accounted for with a supplemental form and people that will vouch that they know you have not been attending the Yassir Arafat School of Charm during your absence from work... or making regular trips to Cali or Medellin.

Does that apply to the Navy kids who get out and go full-time college student to avoid the cardinal sin of middle class existence, and wind up returning to the industry for the decent money and steady employment (based on the assumption that Ops and Maintenance won't downsize any time soon)?

Also - do you think a Navy one might help me be a commercial nuke tourist for a day?

[RDTroja]

To the first question, everyone needs the clearance -- some get it easier than others. Some people have 5 page questionairres (short working histories or only one job, one residence, easy to find references) some have 20 pages (more complex histories.)

To the second... no. There is a possibility that the plant will give you an escorted tour, but the navy clearance will make no difference. Unescorted access requires a specific clearance (navy will not do it) and we could take Osama Bin Laden on an escorted tour if we wanted to.

[illegalsmile]

we could take Osama Bin Laden on an escorted tour if we wanted to.

and who wouldn't want to show him the solid waste compactor?

[RDTroja]

and who wouldn't want to show him the solid waste compactor?

I want to show him a spent fuel bundle up close and personal... preferably at the bottom of the spent fuel pool. (I'll stand back so he can get the full effect.)

[Preciousblue1965]

Why waste a perfectly good opportunity to study what the effects would be of having a person inside a Reactor Compartment at FULL power for XXX number of days.  We might as well learn something while we are at it.

[Already Gone]

A couple of year ago at SONGS, our crew was discussing the hypothesis that if a person tried to swim to the top of the fuel he would not live to get there.
I think that I'd like to test that theory with Mr. Bin Laden.
I already have the experiment designed.
The first problem is to get him to want to swim to the top of the fuel.  So, you drop him in the cavity with a cable locked to his ankle that will only allow him to get within an inch of the water surface.  You put the key to the lock on top of the center bundle.  To save himself from drowning, OBL has to swim to get the key to free himself before his SCUBA tank runs out of air.
Will he make it?

Of course, I also rigged the test.  The key that I placed on the fuel will not actually work that lock, but he won't know that until he tries to use it.

Am I evil?

[Dave Warren]

A couple of year ago at SONGS, our crew was discussing the hypothesis that if a person tried to swim to the top of the fuel he would not live to get there.
I think that I'd like to test that theory with Mr. Bin Laden.
I already have the experiment designed.
The first problem is to get him to want to swim to the top of the fuel.  So, you drop him in the cavity with a cable locked to his ankle that will only allow him to get within an inch of the water surface.  You put the key to the lock on top of the center bundle.  To save himself from drowning, OBL has to swim to get the key to free himself before his SCUBA tank runs out of air.
Will he make it?

Of course, I also rigged the test.  The key that I placed on the fuel will not actually work that lock, but he won't know that until he tries to use it.

Am I evil?

No, Troy, you would have fit in great at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay.

[RDTroja]

Am I evil?

Yes. The proper response is to ask his forgiveness, ask him what we can do to make his life better, give him a bunch of money and politely ask him to not attack us any more.

I may vomit.

[Preciousblue1965]

Yeah...because thats the way we treat those guys over there

Yea because we really tortured people in Abu Gharib.  Not some pansy "waterboarding" technique, but stuff like feeding them alive to carnivorous animals, smashed their bodies with sledge hammers, electrocuted them, and stuff of that nature.  OH WAIT, that wasn't us, that was the guy who ran the place before us, you know the one that we brought to justice.  Heck, at least we apologized for heinous(but paltry in comparison) acts that our guards allowed and helped perform.  I could be mistaken, but I am pretty sure we never heard an apology from Mr. S. Hussein.

[Gamecock]

Yea because we really tortured people in Abu Gharib.  Not some pansy "waterboarding" technique, but stuff like feeding them alive to carnivorous animals, smashed their bodies with sledge hammers, electrocuted them, and stuff of that nature.  OH WAIT, that wasn't us, that was the guy who ran the place before us, you know the one that we brought to justice.  Heck, at least we apologized for heinous(but paltry in comparison) acts that our guards allowed and helped perform.  I could be mistaken, but I am pretty sure we never heard an apology from Mr. S. Hussein.

Ummm...my post was wrapped in sarcasm, thus the egregious overuse of emoticons.

[tr]

Back on topic - Years ago, I worked at D. C. Cook (in southwest Michigan) where they had a huge visitor's center. Apparently it is still there ( http://www.cookinfo.com/powertrip.htm ).  At SONGS, within the past year I escorted in plant tours  for SDG&E and SCE summer interns, and college students studying nuclear engineering.  So, it's worth at least trying to contact the communications people at your local plant and ask.

[Gamecock]

Ok....just returned from my tour of Seabrook.....Obviously my comments here are directed to us navy folk......

Withroaj......No reason to go just to check out the visitors center.....pretty much a 2nd grade view of nuclear power.  Unless you can become part of a tour group that gets to see what I saw, its pretty much worthless.  Even then, I really didn't see much. 

Got to observe a minor LOCA in their simulator.....not an overly impressive event....but it was cool to see the "control room".

Eventually got to go to the real Control Room and walk through the turbine building.  I was impressed with the level of cleanliness....oh and the turbine is about as long as a school bus....pretty cool. 

Didn't get to go into the RCA.

I was also impressed with the level of security.  Multiple layers of security to access the plant areas. 

Overall, I wouldn't say it was a wasted day, but I wouldn't recommend it to others.

[Already Gone]

That's more like two rows of four school buses, wouldn't you say?

[shovelheadred]

...T-Roy,,I agree with your idea about Bin Ladin, but we have to catch him first, or have I missed the news?....don't get to much international news down here in the Sandhills..see you in Reno...