Retirement

[ToadSuck]

I search for pension, retirement, retirement benefits, etc.

I know all about 401k's so you don't have to waste your time there, but most companies aren't sharing their specifics on pensions, profit sharing, and stock options...

Since I have read all the posts on pay, now I want to weigh out the other stuff. Entergy or TVA looks like one of companies I will more than likely work for and they actually list in their manual exactly what you get.

For TVA, they put 6% of you pay into a pension account for you.
Question: Straight pay or 6% of everything?

For Entergy they say,"AVG Pay x 1.5 x # yrs". What avg pay??? It can't be yearly!!! So, monthly, weekly, bi-weekly?

What is considered base pay? Just straight time 40 hrs? OR, include overtime? Or, include overtime and bonuses?? (I know that "base" doesn't include bonus...just trying to present every option I can think of.)

I would just appreciate help from people describing their companies pension for Ops (RO/SRO). Any companies info would help because besides the 2 I listed, no one else divulges the info... It might help me decide to go somewhere else.

Thx in advance...

Matt
Nuke Officer and Enlisted Recruiter
NRD New Orleans

[WebbedOne]

Entergy has a "defined benefit" retirement plan.  The specifics of the plan vary based on the employee's work location, job, labor status (bargaining/non-bargaining), etc.  The percentage (1.5%) is the same for most workers.  However, for some employees OT is included, for others bonuses are included.  At my site, in my position, neither OT, nor bonuses are calculated into the base.  So, to determine my pay at retirement age of 65 years old,  I would multiply my years of service X .015 X average base hourly wage for my 3 highest years X 2080 hours/12 months = monthly retirement benefit.

What you have described for TVA is a "defined contribution" retirement plan.

[RRhoads]

I search for pension, retirement, retirement benefits, etc.

I know all about 401k's so you don't have to waste your time there, but most companies aren't sharing their specifics on pensions, profit sharing, and stock options...
ok
Since I have read all the posts on pay, now I want to weigh out the other stuff. Entergy or TVA looks like one of companies I will more than likely work for and they actually list in their manual exactly what you get.

For TVA, they put 6% of you pay into a pension account for you.
Question: Straight pay or 6% of everything?

For Entergy they say,"AVG Pay x 1.5 x # yrs". What avg pay??? It can't be yearly!!! So, monthly, weekly, bi-weekly?

What is considered base pay? Just straight time 40 hrs? OR, include overtime? Or, include overtime and bonuses?? (I know that "base" doesn't include bonus...just trying to present every option I can think of.)
While iam NOT OPS/SRO...
I cant speak for TVA  i don't work for them...
At the plant i work at, base pay is just that, your base HOURLY pay. $$/hr X 40 hrs/week X 52 weeks/yr. + 12? holidays.
All my other monies..like $$ for medical insurance, overtime, stipends are all taxed post deductions.(this is NOT part of "base pay"). I have a State pension so ~ 5% of my gross(all monies accrued for 2 weeks) pay goes to that.
I would just appreciate help from people describing their companies pension for Ops (RO/SRO). Any companies info would help because besides the 2 I listed, no one else divulges the info... It might help me decide to go somewhere else.

Thx in advance...

Matt
Nuke Officer and Enlisted Recruiter
NRD New Orleans

[Roll Tide]

For TVA, they put 6% of you pay into a pension account for you.
Question: Straight pay or 6% of everything?

6% of the base pay you are receiving at the end of the fiscal year.
The "cash-balance" also grows at the 6% rate.
Then you receive benefits at retirement based on a formula (no, you can't actually take the cash balance and put it where you want it!)

I believe this link works for anyone considering TVA and the TVA retirement system.

http://www.tvars.com/cash_balance_calculator/index.htm

[Old HP]

Whats to talk about, most of us have the B retirement plan. Work until you're 75 and spend 2 years on your bucket list and then kick it.

[HydroDave63]

Whats to talk about, most of us have the B retirement plan. Work until you're 75 and spend 2 years on your bucket list and then kick it.

Here is the average American retirement plan circa 2010, when the 401(k) becomes a 101k


On-topic: most employer plans that look like (1 to 1.5%) x (years of service) x (highest avg. pay) is a highest avg. monthly pay

[NJ]

LOL!  I love the picture...hope I never have to wear it!

[grantime]

not just everyone can wear an outfit like that and keep their dignity

[HydroDave63]

not just everyone can wear an outfit like that and keep their dignity

Or avoid exceeding Young's Modulus of Elasticity for the bag material....

[RAD-GHOST]

Yo Dave,

Do those outfits come in XXLg?

RG...    

[DSO]

I search for pension, retirement, retirement benefits, etc.

I know all about 401k's so you don't have to waste your time there, but most companies aren't sharing their specifics on pensions, profit sharing, and stock options...

Since I have read all the posts on pay, now I want to weigh out the other stuff. Entergy or TVA looks like one of companies I will more than likely work for and they actually list in their manual exactly what you get.

For TVA, they put 6% of you pay into a pension account for you.
Question: Straight pay or 6% of everything?

For Entergy they say,"AVG Pay x 1.5 x # yrs". What avg pay??? It can't be yearly!!! So, monthly, weekly, bi-weekly?

What is considered base pay? Just straight time 40 hrs? OR, include overtime? Or, include overtime and bonuses?? (I know that "base" doesn't include bonus...just trying to present every option I can think of.)

I would just appreciate help from people describing their companies pension for Ops (RO/SRO). Any companies info would help because besides the 2 I listed, no one else divulges the info... It might help me decide to go somewhere else.

Thx in advance...

Matt
Nuke Officer and Enlisted Recruiter
NRD New Orleans

I have done calculations on a cash balance (6% of pay at about 6% interest) versus a traditional pension at 1.5% x yrs=% of final average pay and can tell you this--paid out at the same monthy amount as what the traditional pension would pay--the cash balance plan total amount would only last me about 7 years whereas the traditional pension goes until you are dead.  This assumed an employment period of about 25 years and that all overtime and bonuses would be included in the calculations for the traditional pension payout amount.  The traditional pension therfore is worth about $6000-7000 more per year (you would have to invest of your own money to keep the cash balance payment going for 20 years instead of being depleted at 7 yrs)Actually, this holds true for my traditional factor where I work at 1.2%/year x yrs worked=%of final average pay--so Entergy's 1.5%/yr would be worth maybe $7000-8000 more than TVA's--if they include all overtime and bonuses in their calculations (not just base pay)

[darkmatter]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retirement

From what I've researched, you'll need to live on 4% of your investments to avoid running your capital out and having to go back to work 10 to 15 years after getting out of the rat race. Ask around, you'll see people who "retired" a while back and now having to beg back in the business just to make ends meet.
A 401K should not be your only retirement plan. A company pension cannot be counted on to maintain value against inflation. A IRA is also just a portion of what you may need.
I can't tell you how to invest, only that you should start early, don't place all your eggs in one basket, plan on the worst and hope for the best. Avoid debt and credit cards, don't buy anything you can't pay for and need/use. The days of he who dies with the most toys wins is long gone.

My garden is producing, shelves are stocked with home canned goods, chickens are laying, venison is in the freezer, and the wood stove is keeping me warm. The guys on Wall Street can go **** themselves for all I care.

[alphadude]

traditionally, owning several houses have always, always paid off. rental income, great tax breaks then you can sell when the market is hot. as for when the market is down, you have the rental income, the advantage of taking a lien against them, etc.

[UncaBuffalo]

traditionally, owning several houses have always, always paid off. rental income, great tax breaks then you can sell when the market is hot. as for when the market is down, you have the rental income, the advantage of taking a lien against them, etc.

http://www.relfe.com/A06/housing_bubble_house_prices.html

Why It's Better to Rent than Buy

by Stephanie Relfe
Nov 1, 2008



1. You'll Save Lots of Money

Most people forget that losses get amplified as well as gains when buying real estate with a loan. If a buyer puts 10% down and the house goes down 10%, he has lost 100% of his money on paper. If he has to sell due to job loss or an interest rate hike, he's bankrupt in the real world.

2. Moving Costs

Consider the cost of moving. The cost of selling a house every time you move is 6% to buy plus closing costs. etc. for a loan. Your intial payments are mostly interest (even if you have a mortgage which will pay of the total within 30 years).

So if you have to move less than every eight years, or if you think you may have to move in the future to look for a better job (which most do), then renting is a much better deal.

The "average American" makes 11.7 moves in a lifetime (based upon current age structure and average rates of moving by age between 1990 and 1993). By age 4, an American can expect to have 10.8 moves remaining. At age 19, 9.2 moves can still be expected. But by age 44, only 3.1 moves remain. The actual mobility experience of individual persons, of course, will vary from these average numbers. In addition, since these moves are not evenly distributed throughout that average American's life, we cannot calculate an average length of stay in a particular residence. (http://www.census.gov/population/www/pop-profile/geomob.html)

House prices do not even have to fall to cause big losses. The cost of selling a house is 6%. On a $600,000 house, that's $36,000 lost even if prices just stay flat. So a 4% decline in housing prices bankrupts all those with 10% equity or less.

3. Freedom to Move

When you do have to move, you can do so without any of the worries of selling a house at a loss so that you can move into a new house.

4. House Prices Still Going Down

House prices still have a long way to go down (as of Nov 2008). The Greater Depression has not hit yet, and will not until the derivatives mess is sorted out.

5. Property Taxes

And what about property taxes? Renters don't have to pay them. Property taxes have soared in many areas. There should be a celing for greedy councils, but at the moment that has not been done. Make sure you check out the different property taxes for different counties. It varies enormously (Eg a couple who were paying $7,000 a year in Florida now pay $1,000 a year in Tennessee). It would be great if someone would make a website of the best counties for property taxes.

6. Investments don't have expenses that houses do.

Owners must pay taxes simply to own a house. That is not true of stocks, bonds, or any other asset that can build equity. Only houses are such a guaranteed drain on cash.

Owners must insure a house, but not most other investments.

Owners must pay to repair a house, but not a stock or a bond.

Make sure the the money you save in rent really is put into an investment. Don't just spend it on things which don't save you money or help to bring in an income.

7. You Won't Waste Money on Interior Decorating

One big reason why people save money when they rent rather than buy is because they don't waste money on 'improvements' that don't add to the value of the house, such as painting rooms different colors, buying beautiful curtains etc. Even a pool may add to the value of the home, but you won't make a PROFIT on it.



Another point that this author didn't bring out is that P/E ratios on Real Estate are very high right now.  Historically, P/E ratios (home value:annual rent) are around 10:1...currently, they are closer to 20:1.  This is at a time when stock P/E's are at historical lows, so...

[alphadude]

i was speaking from a slum lord situation

[atomicarcheologist]

3. Freedom to Move

When you do have to move, you can do so without any of the worries of selling a house at a loss so that you can move into a new house.

4. House Prices Still Going Down

House prices still have a long way to go down (as of Nov 2008). The Greater Depression has not hit yet, and will not until the derivatives mess is sorted out.

Regarding #3
You can move easier when renting, as there is not a long legal paper trail to clean up.  However, it may not be cheaper if you need to move before the lease period ends.  You may lose your security fee, last month's rent (if applicable), and other up front fees on the agreement which are normally recoverable at the end of a lease period.  You may also incur other expenses as per your lease regarding the breaking of the agreement. 

Regarding #4
Rental prices generally do not drop during depressions.  The normal trend is for them to rise.  The economic rational is the owners will be leveraging real estate holdings to maximum profitabliity due to less income from other sources, such as the stock market.  Slum lords got to eat too.

[UncaBuffalo]

i was speaking from a slum lord situation

Yes...I was just pointing out that there are downsides to real estate as an investment.  We have had the "American Dream" shoved down our throats for so many years that many people accept the 'rightness' of real estate ownership unquestioningly...

Being a landlord can be very rewarding for an individual that has the right temperament...but there are many other investments that are less labor-intensive and offer as good (or better) chance of reward.  (Since I do not have the temperament to deal with maintenance, bad tenants, vacant properties, etc, I have always stuck to the other investment opportunities.)

Regarding #4
Rental prices generally do not drop during depressions.  The normal trend is for them to rise. 

Absolutely...I would expect the P/E ratio to return to it's historical level (around 10:1) if this downturn continues...

My consideration of Stephanie Relfe as an expert in this discipline is seriously undermined when an "expert" can't find as fundamental a table on the question of property taxes as this one is,...

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/24052.html

Mea Culpa!  I had read an excellent article on the topic by one of the New York Time's financial writers...but couldn't find it, so threw in the Relfe piece, as she hit most of the same points...sorry...

...and thanks for the great property tax data link!

[alphadude]

one thing i forgot real estate will never never have a "0" value.

[UncaBuffalo]

one thing i forgot real estate will never never have a "0" value.

Touche'...you mean, of course, as opposed to the Enron shares I still have in my roll-over IRA?!?!? 

[alphadude]

BINGO  been there done that.

[UncaBuffalo]

I was sorting my old emails and found a link to one of the articles that got me thinking renting isn't all that stupid...

http://realestate.yahoo.com/promo/renting-makes-more-financial-sense-than-homeownership.html



(I'd emailed it to my wife when we were having that age-old favorite argument...to 'nest' or not...)

[UncaBuffalo]

Here's a calculator that lets you run some rent-vs-buy scenarios for yourself...

http://finance.yahoo.com/calculator/family-home/hom06

[thenuttyneutron]

If I don't stop playing with this calculator, I will never buy a home

I am planning on buying a lot and building my first home very soon.  I am looking to start in the next month from where I am at in the process.  I know the risks involved and have 20% down for a downpayment.  I want one of those ICF homes.

http://www.designbasics.com/Altcon/insulated_concrete_forms.asp

[atomicarcheologist]

Here's a calculator that lets you run some rent-vs-buy scenarios for yourself...

http://finance.yahoo.com/calculator/family-home/hom06

Very good calculator, thanks!

[LOKI RAD]

Retirement Question:

#1 ROTH 401K - with taxes taken out before the contribution is made (post tax)

does this mean that when the day finally comes, I wont have to pay taxes at all on my retirement money, even the interest it will earn?


#2 LIFE INSURANCE - say I have $500,000 policy, when I die, do the people I leave my money to have to pay taxes on that money, or do they get a check for $500,000 free and clear?

Thanks