Cross Training/Qualified

[imthehoopa]

I have been looking around and I don't think anyone has really asked directly about this. Let me explain a bit where I am coming from with this and then I will ask my questions. I definitely want to do subs but am unsure as to what order I want to put my preferred ratings (right now I think I have it in MM/EM/ET order - subject to change as it has in the last 12 hours). I am seeing that a lot of people get qualified for the jobs of other ratings as well, so it doesn't seem to make that much of a difference once you are on a ship. I am also going to apply to try to get my commission during training. So when I end up serving finally, I am going to be the person in charge of people doing tasks that they are much more familiar with than I could possibly be at that point. That is an inevitablility of that position and I can be fine with that. I cannot, however, be fine with that for long. No one has any respect for someone like that and I think on a sub you need respect for every man. It would seem that at any point in time the life of the boat could be in anyone's hands. I just want to know that when someone tells me how they are going to do something that it is the right way before I sign off on it. I like to understand everything when given responsibility over something including other areas related to what I may be in charge of. That is just how I am. From my understanding in other posts, if I do commission I will be on watches of different areas of the ship at different times. So that would translate into even more tasks and procedures to learn. Honestly, I find that exciting. I think I have rambled on enough, so let me ask my questions (and correct me if anything I said is incorrect).

1) If you enlist, is learning the other jobs voluntary or is it something that just happens over time? Does it help to volunteer?

2) If I get MM how much of EM can I really get my hands into?

3) If commissioned, how long does it really take to learn everything the enlisted guys doing (being the guy not actually doing the work my thinking is that it takes longer than if I was wearing blue on a ship)?

4) I really would like to have least basic knowledge of everything different ratings have to do and if that is not something I will learn just from being there, do I just volunteer for other duty shifts or something? I am not looking to volunteer so much I have a metal breakdown, but over time it would be amazing to pick up all this kind of knowledge.


(Don't think I have some glorified view of what I am getting into here. I pretty much am expecting a bunch of !@$# from every direction. I definitely have a plan for the worst mentality. I just want to get as much as I can from the experiences I can. Comradery I think seems to come with the territory here, but for knowledge you gotta put in a bit more work. Could be wrong. In fact, I probably am about a lot of things. I haven't even gone to boot camp yet after all.)

[JustinHEMI05]

I have been looking around and I don't think anyone has really asked directly about this. Let me explain a bit where I am coming from with this and then I will ask my questions. I definitely want to do subs but am unsure as to what order I want to put my preferred ratings (right now I think I have it in MM/EM/ET order - subject to change as it has in the last 12 hours). I am seeing that a lot of people get qualified for the jobs of other ratings as well, so it doesn't seem to make that much of a difference once you are on a ship. I am also going to apply to try to get my commission during training. So when I end up serving finally, I am going to be the person in charge of people doing tasks that they are much more familiar with than I could possibly be at that point. That is an inevitablility of that position and I can be fine with that. I cannot, however, be fine with that for long. No one has any respect for someone like that and I think on a sub you need respect for every man. It would seem that at any point in time the life of the boat could be in anyone's hands. I just want to know that when someone tells me how they are going to do something that it is the right way before I sign off on it. I like to understand everything when given responsibility over something including other areas related to what I may be in charge of. That is just how I am. From my understanding in other posts, if I do commission I will be on watches of different areas of the ship at different times. So that would translate into even more tasks and procedures to learn. Honestly, I find that exciting. I think I have rambled on enough, so let me ask my questions (and correct me if anything I said is incorrect).

1) If you enlist, is learning the other jobs voluntary or is it something that just happens over time? Does it help to volunteer?

2) If I get MM how much of EM can I really get my hands into?

3) If commissioned, how long does it really take to learn everything the enlisted guys doing (being the guy not actually doing the work my thinking is that it takes longer than if I was wearing blue on a ship)?

4) I really would like to have least basic knowledge of everything different ratings have to do and if that is not something I will learn just from being there, do I just volunteer for other duty shifts or something? I am not looking to volunteer so much I have a metal breakdown, but over time it would be amazing to pick up all this kind of knowledge.


(Don't think I have some glorified view of what I am getting into here. I pretty much am expecting a bunch of !@$# from every direction. I definitely have a plan for the worst mentality. I just want to get as much as I can from the experiences I can. Comradery I think seems to come with the territory here, but for knowledge you gotta put in a bit more work. Could be wrong. In fact, I probably am about a lot of things. I haven't even gone to boot camp yet after all.)

1) Yes and no. Of course you are always allowed to pursue cross rate and other quals on the ship. But it will depend on you, your manning and many other variables. IMO, learning the other rates is a good way to enhance your career. However, you must master yours, first.

2)That is up to you, and them. Really, it depends on the things above. I have experienced both extremes. That being "required" to qualify cross rate watches and not being allowed to qualify cross rate watches. The argument against allowing MMs to qualify EO, for example, was the fact that you would then have to maintain proficiency, and sometimes its hard enough to have enough watches for in rate guys to maintain. Again, there are many variables at play. But by all means, go for it and see what happens. Either you you will be permitted, or not. But, even if you cannot fully qualify a watch, such as EO, there is nothing stopping you from doing a UI now and then for the experience. But it must not interfere with other duties such as maintenance.

3) Well, theoretically as an EOOW, you have in-rate knowledge of all the rates. All that means really is books stuff. Of course you won't know how to do all the paperwork and the nuances of the day to day jobs, but that is where integrity and trust comes into play. This question can open up a big can of worms, but rest assured the right answer is always available. You have to become good at finding it in the books if you feel you cannot trust the person giving you the answer.

4) What you do on your own time is your business. If you choose to study cross rate stuff and qualify other watches, terrific. Again though, there are going to be other variable in play as far as qualifying other watches. But nothing is going to stop you from reading the books. I spent many hours in ERF reading RPMs because there was nothing else to do except clean.

As a sub JO, you will be pulled in many directions. Learning the nuances of everyone's job will be very difficult. But you don't need to know everything. You just need to know where to find the answer.

One last piece of advice... never sign your name to anything unless you are 110% sure that you know what you are signing (as EOOW) no matter how much pressure someone may be putting on you. If you are not satisfied with the answer someone gives you, or your gut feels weird, don't sign. Investigate and get to the right answer. TRUST BUT VERIFY.

Justin

PS Of course that is assuming you get picked up officer and then are a nuke sub officer. It is very competitive and they do, for the most part, pick up the best of the crowd.

[imthehoopa]

PS Of course that is assuming you get picked up officer and then are a nuke sub officer. It is very competitive and they do, for the most part, pick up the best of the crowd.

Yea, I am not basing my entry into the NAVY on whether I make officer or not. I have the ability and the initiative so I will try. I will be just as happy to serve though if I don't get selected. Thanks for your answers.

[Roll Tide]

there is nothing stopping you from doing a UI now and then for the experience.

The only exceptions would be qualifying Reactor Operator and ELT. Of course, you have plenty to keep you busy qualifying every other EM/MM/ET watchstation. After that, you are ready to qualify EWS, and THEN you can sit in the RO chair under instruction and draw primary samples under instruction. And all that other stuff will have you more ready for EWS.

[JustinHEMI05]

The only exceptions would be qualifying Reactor Operator and ELT. Of course, you have plenty to keep you busy qualifying every other EM/MM/ET watchstation. After that, you are ready to qualify EWS, and THEN you can sit in the RO chair under instruction and draw primary samples under instruction. And all that other stuff will have you more ready for EWS.

Yup, thanks, I left that nuance off.

Justin

[NukeNTO]

First,I agree with pretty much everything JustinHEMI and Roll Tide said (very good answers).  Just thought I'd chime in with my perspective on number 3 as a recent JO. 

As a nuke officer in the Navy you're never going to know everything about what the enlisted guys are doing.  You need to remember that you're not only a nuke on a submarine. You stand watch in the plant, but you also stand watch up forward driving.  So you get spread pretty thin by the time you get all the tactics, mental gym, look intervals, rules of the road, weapons info, etc crammed into your head and then you get to be a nuke on top of it.  So it's pretty unrealistic to think you'll ever really know everything, although with time and lots of work you will know "a lot about a lot", you probably won't know all the nuts and bolts of what's going on at the deckplate level.  The enlisted guys get to be the experts at their rates and like Justin said you have to develop that trust and confidence in them to help compensate for what you don't know. 

If it's your desire to become an officer, but you want that deckplate knowlege you should probably go to the fleet first then apply to STA-21 when you think you're ready.

[JustinHEMI05]

If it's your desire to become an officer, but you want that deckplate knowlege you should probably go to the fleet first then apply to STA-21 when you think you're ready.

That is a pretty good idea.

Justin

[Preciousblue1965]

No you will not know every little nuance about equipment like an Enlisted person does just for the simple fact that you won't be tearing it apart if it gets broken or operating it every day.  This is why we go to A school and you don't.  However it is your job to have a basic understanding of what we are doing when we talk to you about the maintenance schedule or tag out.  Of course there are instances where you might not truly want to know what is going on just for a plausible deniability aspect.  Although I have seen that go both ways, had a Shift Eng who was a prior enlisted EM who was "investigating" a problem with an AC unit.  Never thought I would have to walk away from something an Officer was doing just to be safe.