Nozzle dams and bubble hood work

[imbucky]

 
Looking for some advice....
I recently covered a nozzle dam installation job at Point Beach with some problems.
1.   Has anyone else ever had problems getting guys into the S/G Channel head area?
2.   Has anyone ever sprayed down the jumpers with DI water in a small spray bottle to use as a lubricant so the jumpers could slide in?

I had some jumpers loose air and had to cut them out on the S/G platform.
With only one platform worker and one jumper I decided to help and become the 3rd platform worker. Trying to lower the time part of time distance and shielding.
After some investigations I'm back to work (no, not fired) after a few days off from work.

Please let me know what the "industry standard" is.

I thought I knew???

[Melrose]

1. Why were you given time off?
2. Was there an emergency cut out person, was he the one sent off the p/form?
3. Were you covering the job, or did remote monitoring have responsibility.
4. What was the reason for loss of air. (If the jumpers were on the same header, then the issue of safety for the others arises.  If that was the case, then they all should have exited the platform until the reason for air loss was rectified.)

Getting the guy in the bowl- Was air pressure too high?  Usually they do a squat to evacuate air from the suit, then before it fills back up they make the entry.

DI water shouldn't be an issue with Chem.

Lending a hand may be an issue, depending on what type of "environment" you're working for.
If you had responsibility for the safety of the workers maybe you shouldn't have diverted your attention to other matters.
If the plan was to have two p/form workers/one jumper/one tech, then someone higher up may have had a reason for that scenerio, be it safety or strength in numbers... whatever.
They may have felt that the plan should have been adhered to, if it couldn't be done, then, as with the loss of air problem it's time to back out and regroup.
Was there a back up worker outside, these are usually done in rotation, allowing for the type problems you listed.  Send one guy out, send another in. 

This could go on..... sorry so long, hope I've shed some light on things for you.

P.S.  Re: Cutting they guy out on the platform.  How crapped up was he upon exiting the RCA if at all?  What's the procedure for loss of air? 
Full cut out may be extreme on some pretty nasty platforms, where simply wiping down the hood face and cutting a hole in it may be a better option vice crapping the worker up.
Was the cut done in a panic?  Remembering they have a few minutes of air in the suit.  Did he lose air or was the suit collapsed due to low pressure/heavy breathing?
Following procedure may be the problem under investigation.

Let us know if you hear more.  I'd be surprised if you don't get some sort of coaching that would help you out.
good luck

[Already Gone]

I agree totally with Melrose.  Things seem to have gotten out of hand, although the scenario you described is not unusual.  There should have been a plan with all those contingencies mapped out in advance. There should have been a pre-job brief where you would have been told what was expected of you.  Many plants send the S/G HP's to do the mockup training with the jumpers they will be covering. 
It seems that you are a competent tech with the ability to cover this job, but that is no excuse for management to have left you on your own like that.  Even the ace HP who has covered jumpers hundreds of times needs supervision, direction, and - most of all -  a plan to work from.
I hope they paid you for the days off... or at least docked themselves as many days for hanging you out like that.
The industry standard is the same for this job as for all aspects of nuclear power --  Defense-in-Depth.  There is a backup for everything, and another in case the backup fails.  If you aren't operating under that principle, you're headed for trouble.  Murphy's Law is the rule to live by.

[SloGlo]

Looking for some advice....
I recently covered a nozzle dam installation job at Point Beach with some problems.
1.   Has anyone else ever had problems getting guys into the S/G Channel head area?
2.   Has anyone ever sprayed down the jumpers with DI water in a small spray bottle to use as a lubricant so the jumpers could slide in?

I had some jumpers loose air and had to cut them out on the S/G platform.
With only one platform worker and one jumper I decided to help and become the 3rd platform worker. Trying to lower the time part of time distance and shielding.
After some investigations I'm back to work (no, not fired) after a few days off from work.

Please let me know what the "industry standard" is.

I thought I knew???

from the replies, it sounds as though the standard has changed a bit since the last time i worked a plat.  it wasn't at your plant, but i've done the s/g plats there too.  i remember once i had to take a jumper to 2850/qtr by pencil and they didn't burn the tld 1st.  thems waz da daze!
anyway, back to the thread... yes, i've had trouble getting them into the m/w hole, 'n that was before we had bubble suits.  they usta give us some fat old boilermakers!  usually we turned them away in those days, because iffen they did suck it in and wiggle their way in, when they got out their bellies and butts would be all crapped up!  when we advanced to the bubble hoods (like a giant sunrise over the industry!) we'd have them squeeze the air out of the suit and dive quick before they filled back up.  sometimes they weren't quick enough and we'd hafta shove 'em in.  other times they'd waste the jump time trying the approach in the hole and have to get pulled (literally) out and sent off the platform and out of the can.
can't say as i remember using d.i. water as a lube, but one time at a triple looper circlebarw plant, the pump crew overhead lost a line and deluged the s/g plat.... the jumper dove anyway after we assured him that the water dose was nothing compared to where he was going!
i've cut workers out on plats, with real knives too, not those sissy plastic hook knives.  but that was when.....  aw never mind.  i also knew a plat worker that lost air  when he was by himself (he was an hp, there were no cameras in those days and he was doing the plat survey) 'n he chewed his way through the hood to get air.  but that's a story for a different thread.
imbucky..... hope this helps, or gave ya a grin.  have a good.

[UncaBuffalo]

One vote "against" on lubing jumpers to get them in the bowl...either they can get in & out by themselves or they shouldn't be in there...

[IPREGEN]

Last time around we used PTI a group related to Westinghouse. They have an A, B, C team (three people) that does the jump, no water for "lube". "A" person goes in, verification and assist by the "B" person. "C" supports the hoses, ropes etec. Next nozzle, the "B" person jumps and "C" is the verification. Keep rotating until all 8 dams are in.

[imbucky]

Thanks for all the replies. I'll try to answer as good as possible.

Melrose:
I was given time off during the companies investigation of the situation.

I was the emergency cut out person as deemed by our RPM by a formal department policy note.

I was the direct job coverage. We recently implemented the use of Teleview teledosimetry but we are not very confident in it yet so we were using stay times and direct job coverage.

My opinion is that the first jumper became distressed and paniced. Not sure why/how the air was disconnected on the second guy? Either on the way in or while he was in the bowl. Yes, the connection was taped.
No other workers were staged outside the area. No plan if we ran into this situation. When we ran into problems we stopped, evauluated the situation, then went on if we felt comfortable. I did.
When I cut he guys out of the hood on the platform I tried to calm them down to get them back to normal breathing. I feel I remained calm while I did this.  The workers had low level contaminations that were easily removed and didn't reach our criteia limits.
Beer Court:
Yes, we had a mock up and pre job but there wasn't much about a emergency situation. We did have emergency people on stand by.

Thanks for your support.

SloGlo:
He did get into the fetal position before jumping. These guys have jump times and must have some sort of training before they end up on the platform next to me. I guess next time I would ask of the jumpers qualifications?

We only used the DI because the jumpers told us they use it a lot at other places. We didn't question the OE and took their advice.

Uncabuffalo:
They had the choice of the big guy or the little guy. They chose the big guy. Oh well....I definetly will also vote "no lube" in the future.

To all......
Thanks for your support!! This web site is a great tool! I really appreciate you help.

[Roll Tide]

Imbucky,
It sounds like you have discovered the truth about HP coverage: the buck stops here (no pun intended on your screen name!)

Your honest and open post will help all of us: it is OE we can truly relate to. So often, when we ask ourselves, what is the worst that can happen, we forget there is more than one person being covered; that means simultaneous problems.

Thanks for sharing!

[Phurst]

I told a jumper once that I'd let him know his time was up by pinching off his air hose. Took me 15 mins of apologizing befor I could get him to jump.  Never did that again. Never lubed a jumper, never had a problem with them coming out. It was always their antics up on the platform that got them in trouble. Opening vacuums, switching hepas, disconnecting power. Never trust one you can't see and always be stern and professional once they are taped up. You have their lives in your hands.

[Zimmy]

This has been pretty interesting. Many different scenarios. Regarding supplied air loss and ease of use in jumps. There is a bubble suit out there that is really helping all involved. it seems that the suit has great escape features, and is light, and is easy to get in and out of. Sounds like the ticket. I believe Duke Power and many others are moving to it because of it's great features. It's referred by the words "Delta Suit" You also don't get crapped up using it because of the way you undress.

I figured you guys would like to know

[SloGlo]

It's referred by the words "Delta Suit" You also don't get crapped up using it because of the way you undress.

iz it idiot pruf?

[darkmatter]

Looking for some advice....
I recently covered a nozzle dam installation job at Point Beach with some problems.
1.   Has anyone else ever had problems getting guys into the S/G Channel head area?
2.   Has anyone ever sprayed down the jumpers with DI water in a small spray bottle to use as a lubricant so the jumpers could slide in?

I had some jumpers loose air and had to cut them out on the S/G platform.
With only one platform worker and one jumper I decided to help and become the 3rd platform worker. Trying to lower the time part of time distance and shielding.
After some investigations I'm back to work (no, not fired) after a few days off from work.

Covered many a bubblehood jump at different plants. Sometimes we worked it out with the jumpers to pinch off the air while they squatted to squeeze it out then jumped in. It depended on the jumper whether they wanted us to cut the air as signal to exit (and the plant mgrs). Never used any kind of lube, although more then a few got really greasy-looking. Fort Calhoun has S/G manways 2 inches smaller then anywhere else I've been. Always, Always maintain communication and awareness of the airflow to the jumpers--had a platform worker waiting in the pen area off camera once who didn't speak English very well and set down on his own hose and pinched off the tygon tube in back--just lucky we saw his suit collasped and got to him before he passed out--Whew, that was a close one.
I've used everything from scissors to razor knifes, to an insulator knife to cut them out. I think the scissors along with a zip knife worked best.

[ramdog_1]

Dark matters living in the past. for one thing this is a confine space you never cut the air off to a worker when the worker in in a confine space, and you do not use razor knifes , you can really cut  a worker open with one of thoses, now a days thdepneds on the safey program you use snubknose scissors safty cutters, these items help ensure you do not cut the worker,
read your procedures and do proper pre-job briefs  know what your job is and what safety items you need before you start a job, if something is out of scope you need to stop regroup call your forman, before you procede.

[darkmatter]

Dark matters living in the past.

Depends on what facility you're working at, standards vary. I've met my share of housemice who thought their way was industry standard. Ha, go on the road and find out you have to keep an open mind and adapt to the local mindset.
Some sites use cameras, some still use an HP on the platform with a stopwatch. Ya just got to do what you can to make a living and do your job with a clear concience.

[Tech-A]

There are only 2 plants that I do RP work at, the rest I do Decon. And some people dont understand why. And this thread proves my point. From what I have read and understand you did everything correctly,  But you was the one given days off for something that went wrong. There are WAY to many variables that can happen when a RP covers a job. You can have some one NEW get on a P/F go into a panic, highly contaminated ripping their bubble suits off getting contamination all over the place and the RP gets sent home.  As long as you know you did the right thing....dont look back and dont loose no sleep over it.

[duke99301]

humm good points by all sith those of you who still read the procedures and do te pre-job briefs. Being I am a safety manger who travels.  where I work now a daysthey do not let workers use razor knifes to cut workers out. ( snubbed off cutters) we like to get EMT items.
and for those of you who work for Bartlett you need to read your company safety procedures , in the safety manual it will read bartlett workers not allowed to use open end razor knifes. ( to many cuts can happen from these.)
best thing to do is ask question and go over your pre-job briefs get what you need to the job bepfore you start

[Dream Tar Heel]

I agree with Darkmatter, if you go enough different places, you'll see many, many suttle differences as what is expected. And he is also correct about the deflation of the bubblesuit prior to entering the generator manway (but I never lubed one up prior to jumpin).

As for as the "confined space" and no deflation of the bubblesuit comment, stick to friskin stuff at the RCA exit, you'll be safer there!

[Already Gone]

As for as the "confined space" and no deflation of the bubblesuit comment, stick to friskin stuff at the RCA exit, you'll be safer there!

Hey!  You can't be usin' my lines buddy. 

I don't normally let jumpers mess with their air hoses either.  You can catch them duct-taping kinks in the hoses just because the air is too noisy and such.  But, I never have a problem pinching it for a few seconds to deflate the suit.  I mean JEEZ!! That hole is only 18 inches across.  A jumper can pick up 100 mRem just trying to get his huge gut through the manway.  A fully inflated suit has got to be at least two feet across at the butt.  The suit isn't very "protective" if it gets you stuck in the hole.

[ramdog_1]

looks like some of you need to read your procedures agin. or stay with DOE where its safe! really . the main thing is to get through it with out getting the guy doesd up or you getting wriote up. like I said read your procedures get the right pre job brief,  and razor knifes are a thing of the past but yes some people still use them and if you do cut some one its a fast way out the gate now a days. looks like some of you need the touchy feel good  training ,
happy holidays let it rain

[South_African]

Someone earlier mentioned airsuits. We here in South Africa used to use American bubble hoods and plastic suits for SG entries. However we now make use of the French manufactured airsuits. Its just so much easier. You connect the airsupply , the guy steps inrto the suit and you zip him up. To undress you unzip the guy from behind and then you help the guy out of the suit. I normally place my clean hands just inside the zip at the head and lift it over the guys head. The nice thing is that running from the one arm across the head to the other arm is a strip. If the worker runs into difficulty by pulling the strip he opens the suit himself and the suit falls away. These airsuits really are great compared to airhoods.

[exocom]

Years ago I was the RP jump lead for a S/G when a huge man showed up at the control point. Since the 2 platform workers were already being bubbled up I knew this had to be the jumper. I asked this guy if he fit in the manway and his indignant reply was he had one of the best times at mock-up. We bubbled him up and went over the jump protocol and he proceded to the S/G M/W. He did the squat and a platform worker pinched off his airline (no grief for this, it was the way they trained the jumpers to get the air out of their suits prior to jumping for years at this plant) with my permission he jumped into the manway and got stuck immediately. The view on the camera was a waist and 2 legs wiggling up and down with 4 arms pushing on them. At the same time 1 platform worker asks "Hey RP you got some vaseline or something like it?" This is when I tell them to stop pushing on the jumper and pull him back out. The response "We got to get him in there.", at which point I asked "If he's stuck going in how are you going to get him out if he does get in?" They then tried to pull the jumper out, unfortunately he was now stuck solid. Now they ask for NeverSeize. Remembering some biology, I had the platform guys back off and then calmly talked to the jumper after which I told the platform workers to go help him out. Talking to him relaxed him enough to get him out. The jumpers suit was shredded at the waist from all that struggling. Over 2 minutes across the plane with nothing but a contaminated man to show for it. Mandatory investigation followed, I was told what saved my butt was asking the guy if he fit. Apparently the mock-up training he received and the documentation of such was not good enough to keep the jump lead out of trouble by themselves, that took a questioning attitude. This was many years ago and I believe I am remembering the lines right. The vaseline quote is right I'll never forget it, the others if not exact convey the gist of the conversation.
As an aside my junior at the time was dying laughing to the point of falling down. Looking back now I can laugh at the picture of those legs kicking away and 2 big brutes pushing on them, but sure was not that funny with the clock ticking down.

[JnyMac]

I covered S/G platforms for quite a long time at Palo Verde.  We now use our management to insert Nozzle Dams.  I.E. Vice President, Ops Director, and Outage Director.  I guess we never really have had a probled getting guys in the manway.  The thing is we have a full scale Mock-Up so we know the guys fit before they actually get to the platform.  We cinch them up tight in the suits with duct tape and away they go.

[exocom]

Hey JnyMac, Palo Verde had a full scale mock-up back then too, but that guy still did not fit into the manway when it came time to jump the real thing. The guy had mock-up training and did have one of the best times for that outage's crew of jumpers. This was before PV started using management types to jump the S/G, I believe those guys were boilermakers/welders. I have timed PV management jumping the S/G including Radiation Protection. I was there when they started that practice and thought it was a good way for management to get in touch with what actually happens during an outage. I spent alot of time on those S/G platforms, timing people across the plane of the manways, covering RCP impellor pulls,etc.. Been awhile back now, heck I see people that were juniors then are site coordinators now. Time passes, things change and old roadwh()res just want to go to the next job.

[JnyMac]

Exocom,

Well I bet that I have worked with you on more than one outage.  I primarily worked S/G platforms with Kris Hammond, Mike Garry, Rick Doherty, Steve Reed, and Ric Garcia. from about 89 to 2000.  I really don't see the platforms much anymore with the exception of a valve line-up or two.

[exocom]

Yeah I worked with all those guys, from 86-95, though Garry did not work S/G much at the time. Let's see if my memory works: Beverly Notsch, Buddy Burkett, Mark Fry, Trent Lancelott, Joanna Thater, Scott Zee, Gary Lightfoot, Linda McDonald, Beau Straub, Tom Roe, Karl Read, Sue Zieglar, Keith LeClair, Doug Carter, Dean Smith, Batman Meldrum, George White, Larry Peoples, Chilly Willy, Terry Gober, Tom Markey, Mark Moore, Brad Oliver. Not all those people worked S/Gs, just some I remember working PV offhand. If you worked S/G nightshift from 86-93 we probably worked together. Think I got stuck on days twice. Spent about 5 years at PV total, use to have operators ask me where valves were in the bays. That's not so bad, but normally being able to tell them off the top of your head was a good indicator you'd work the area too long.