Graguate School Oppurtunities and NUPOC

[Maritimer]

Hey everyone, I am in the process of applying to the Navy's NUPOC Program and was just wondering what sort of opportunities were made available to Nuclear Officers to attend grad school while in the Navy. I am sort of looking for input from any current or former officers who went through NUPOC and attended graduate school while they were still in the Navy. I assume it can be fairly difficult to balance coursework and being an officer in the Navy at the same time, so I would like to know how you managed to take classes while fulfilling your duties as a Navy officer, how long it took you to get your graduate degree, what type of degree you received, the school you attended to get that degree, and whether or not the Navy assisted you with paying for that degree. Any input would be greatly appreciated and please let me know if there are any questions in regards to what I am asking. Thanks.

[dwsmith]

There is a lot of information on the web about this option.  There is MIT for NR engineers, and NPS for the others.  You get some credits for your nuclear training at NPS, and there are a few degrees online for you as a Nuclear officer that utilizes the credits making the schooling shorter at NPS.  Additionally, if you want to attend in person, I think you have to be in for 2-3 years first and then request the opportunity to go.  I don't know the process on that but it does exist.

[spekkio]

You have several realistic options available to you, most of which will occur during your post-JO shore duty.

First, you should understand the mechanics that will lead up to this:

At the end of your first 3 year sea tour, you'll be approaching 5 YCS and you will make a decision to either resign your commission or to 'play the slate' -- put in your preferences for the list of available post-JO shore jobs and serve at least until your shore duty orders are up. You put in a list of 10 preferences and the detailer assigns people according to the "needs of the Navy," your career needs based on performance at sea, and those preferences. Once you commit to a shore duty, you cannot (legally at least) resign until those orders are up, so if you get something that wasn't on your list such as prototype, which happens on occasion, then you have to suck it up and no grad degree for you. The detailer gets more 'points' for 'green' details (top 3) and gets docked for 'red details' (not on your list at all), but he has to fill all the high priority jobs first and foremost.

Having said that, you can REQUEST the following:

1) NROTC instructor. Very difficult to get at reputable schools because there are "non-traditional shore duties" (GSA tours in Afghanistan that are now no longer available, staff on destroyer squadron ASW team that goes underway for a year) that get first priority at the slate. It also allows you to get reduced tuition at most universities because you are considered staff, while incurring no extra commitment, so it's a very popular option thus making it even more competitive. I personally would not hang my hat on getting an NROTC instructor gig.

2) Naval Postgraduate School. This incurs a DH tour commitment, but it is completely free. There are two catches: 1) It's a non-observed tour, which means that you have a period of time as an O-3 where your performance is not evaluated compared to your peers. Can be detrimental to your promotion to screening LCDR and XO at sea if you don't come out of the gate running as a DH at sea. 2) They will generally send you to only study things that are 'useful' to the submarine community (Operations Analysis, Undersea Warfare, a handful of others), so if you're planning on getting an MBA that probably won't happen. NPS's claim to fame is their OA program and cyber-security programs; their other engineering/technical degrees are decent (many of these tie into the USW program) and their MBA program is not very well-regarded.

NPS also has distance learning programs that also incur a time in service commitment.

3) Engineering management masters via CD. This is not a very reputable degree, but it will meet the 'check in the box' for having a Master's in the Navy. The nuke pipeline qualifies you for credits toward this degree.

4) Use the post 9/11 GI bill to go to night school while you are doing a shore duty. This is very doable in MOST shore duty jobs, but be aware if you want to go to graduate school outside of places that have a sub base or Washington DC, then you're going to be SOL. You should also note that very few reputable graduate schools exist around submarine bases, but it also depends on what you want to do. Some slates may also have very few DC jobs and working at the Pentagon is generally longer hours than instructor duty at a sub base.

5) Prototype. You won't be able to go to school while you are a prototype instructor, but one of the options is to either take a 1 year sabbatical to get a master's done with no other military commitments. Another is to go to the Naval War College. Both options incur a DH tour commitment. The NWC is free, but their degrees aren't very reputable outside of the military.

6) PCU -> NWC. After you serve 24 mo on the boat and qualify engineer, you can request to transfer early to a pre-commissioning boat. That will incur another two years to get the boat operational. That eats a year of your shore duty, so you will get sent to NWC to get a master's if you choose to stay in the Navy. If you go to NWC, you incur a DH commitment because it's free to you.

If none of those options are appealing to you, or you just don't want to gamble 2 years of your future on a shore duty lottery, then you will have to resign and use the 9/11 GI bill to attend a university. Your chances of getting a shore duty you want greatly increase if you have a CO who will 'play ball' -- call the detailer and use his senior judgment to put in a word on the best 'fit' for you.

[spekkio]

There is a lot of information on the web about this option.  There is MIT for NR engineers, and NPS for the others.  You get some credits for your nuclear training at NPS, and there are a few degrees online for you as a Nuclear officer that utilizes the credits making the schooling shorter at NPS.  Additionally, if you want to attend in person, I think you have to be in for 2-3 years first and then request the opportunity to go.  I don't know the process on that but it does exist.

Bad gouge. NNPTC is not an accredited source. NPS will give you credit for undergrad work in those areas if you want to do a technical masters with a non-technical undergrad degree, but you will not get out of any coursework just by being a nuke.

You can attempt to 'test out' of classes if you like, but then you have to take an elective to replace it so there's no real point in doing so.

Also I found out while stashed in admissions for 2 months that not a single person has successfully completed the Mech E for nukes distance learning degree.

[dwsmith]

Bad gouge. NNPTC is not an accredited source. NPS will give you credit for undergrad work in those areas if you want to do a technical masters with a non-technical undergrad degree, but you will not get out of any coursework just by being a nuke.

You can attempt to 'test out' of classes if you like, but then you have to take an elective to replace it so there's no real point in doing so.

Also I found out while stashed in admissions for 2 months that not a single person has successfully completed the Mech E for nukes distance learning degree.

According to LT Kasm, power school validates 28 hours at NPS.  There are other slides out their by Navy officers with this same information at other schools too.

http://studentorgs.engr.utexas.edu/swe/region_c/NUPOC_presentation.pdf

Here is the link to the LT's information being put out.

[Gamecock]

There is a lot of information on the web about this option.  There is MIT for NR engineers

I know of no current NR engineers that were sent to MIT by NR.  Engineering Duty Officers can get sent to MIT.  NR engineers get sent to The Bettis Reactor Engineering School.

Cheers,

GC

[spekkio]

According to LT Kasm, power school validates 28 hours at NPS.  There are other slides out their by Navy officers with this same information at other schools too.

http://studentorgs.engr.utexas.edu/swe/region_c/NUPOC_presentation.pdf

Here is the link to the LT's information being put out.

Well, LT Kasm is wrong. That brief also says the nuclear power school pipeline is 'graduate level coursework' when it's not. It might be fast-paced, but it's all undergrad level stuff. It's actually more narrow than the stuff you'd learn in those classes if you took them as an undergrad, without the increased resolution of graduate work.

I am at NPS with several other people from my power school class and not a one has any graduate credit for the coursework in NNPS. The only thing that coursework is good for is getting a waiver for technical degrees if your academic profile code, which only factors in accredited work, doesn't make the cut.

As mentioned before, you can attempt to 'test out' of coursework that you took in NNPS and replace it with an elective since it appears on your SMART transcript. But this whole discussion is moot: Placing out of classes doesn't do anything for you in a school that is no-cost to you and requires you to take a full-time amount of credits every quarter.

[Maritimer]

Thank you for your input everyone, it sounds like my best option would be to use the post 9/11 GI bill to get a graduate degree if I wanted to attend a school outside of the Navy.

Is there anyone out there who has gone this route? and if so what school did you attend? and what was your degree in?

As of right now I am looking to get a masters of engineering in either mechanical or nuclear engineering, my top choices for schools would be Michigan, Penn State, Purdue, or (if I could get in) MIT.

[spekkio]

If you are set on those schools, you'll either have to
A) take a NTSD for a year so you can get first priority on a NROTC instructor job there (which might not even be available on the slate) or

B) resign your commission and be done with the Navy.

Also be aware that the GI bill covers up to $18,700/year of school costs + BAH while you attend. So you're gonna need to save quite a bit of that JO pay for grad school.