I want to apply for the Naval Reactors Engineer position, but I have two Cs

[HiThere]

I am a junior mechanical engineering student that is going to have some controls system focus (by taking several EE courses and an embedded system/software course). I wish to apply for the NR engineering since I have a minor interest in nuclear engineering (not enough to major in it due to uncertain job prospects), I understand how mechanical and controls engineering applies to reactor design/maintenance, and I want to serve the United States.

Regarding my academics, I have Cs in two engineering courses, and a B- in C/C++ programming. My overall GPA is 3.30.

I understand that the NR Engineering requires at least Bs in all technical courses. Although my recruiter stated that the academic requirements could be waived, I consider that to be very unlikely.

I did have a significant amount of engineering work and student experiences:

-I am involved with SAE Baja and AIAA. I was designing a solid-fuel powered rocket for AIAA's upcoming national rocket launch competition, until I received an co-op offer that I couldn't refuse.

-I had a co-op with a car manufacturing company this year, and was given a major controls system programming project by my mentor during my first few weeks. He told me that I was the manager of the project, and to drive the point home, I have personally seen him tell a line engineer and IT engineer that they were to take orders from me, a sophomore engineering student.

Here's what was on my resume (regarding the co-op) when I gave it to the recruiter:

•   Responsible for an automated monitoring project, estimated to save over $3 million yearly
•   Organized training for three engineers to continue implementing the monitoring project on other production lines
•   Coordinated project tasks with production staffs and full-time engineers, and communicated with management
•   Completed an estimated 5-month automated monitoring project within 3 months
•   Assisted with debugging a problematic parts tracking system for an aluminum engine block production line
•   Programmed over 50 industrial controls systems using PLC ladder logic programming language
•   Wired fiber optic CC-Link Industrial Network, Ethernet, 24V data signaling and 110V power supply cables
•   Welded, installed and programmed a camera protection system to prevent disruptions in the parts tracking system

I really enjoyed doing the project management, programming, engineering design and hands-on work.


If I am unable to get into the NR Engineering, I could apply for the submarine and surface officer positions, though I would need a bit of time to think about those two positions. I'm not sure how much engineering is involved with the officer positions, or the future career prospects (design/manufacturing engineering, or engineering management) when I go back into the civilian world.

[MMM]

Two things. First, this should have been posted in the Navy Nuke forum. Second, there is about ZERO engineering involved with being a Sub/Surface nuke officer (maybe eventually, but not for the first 10+ years at least). Your job is to run a division, that's pretty much it for quite some time.

[HiThere]

Two things. First, this should have been posted in the Navy Nuke forum. Second, there is about ZERO engineering involved with being a Sub/Surface nuke officer (maybe eventually, but not for the first 10+ years at least). Your job is to run a division, that's pretty much it for quite some time.

I've did a bit of researching in this forum, and I came across some information that stated the Sub/Surface nuke officers had high first-year turnover rates.

Let's say that I leave the navy in 5-20 years after starting as the nuke officer. What careers in the civilian industry would I have a reasonable chance to get into? I'd imagine some HR departments will think narrowly and say, "We need someone to work in an office, not a sub."

[Gamecock]

Unless you are attending a top-tier engineering school ( MIT for example), you are not competitive for an NR engineer position with a 3.3 GPA. 

Cheers,

GC

[HydroDave63]

Let's say that I leave the navy in 5-20 years after starting as the nuke officer. What careers in the civilian industry would I have a reasonable chance to get into? I'd imagine some HR departments will think narrowly and say, "We need someone to work in an office, not a sub."

Then you have no understanding of how a professional HR department works, much less the significance of the NR program.

[Better Water Reactor NLO]

Unless you are attending a top-tier engineering school ( MIT for example), you are not competitive for an NR engineer position with a 3.3 GPA. 

Cheers,

GC

They only hire the "best and brightest", then pay them mediocre wages.

[HiThere]

Then you have no understanding of how a professional HR department works, much less the significance of the NR program.

I'm trying to understand how surface/submarine warfare officer is applicable to non-military careers down the road. I am very aware that there is a significant amount of leadership experiences and teamwork required to run a surface vessel or submarine.

EDIT: I'm not sure if the recruiter has information about the first-year retention rate or knows the major reasons why people quit early. I presume someone around here has an idea?

[Better Water Reactor NLO]

I'm trying to understand how surface/submarine warfare officer is applicable to non-military careers down the road. I am very aware that there is a significant amount of leadership experiences and teamwork required to run a surface vessel or submarine.

EDIT: I'm not sure if the recruiter has information about the first-year retention rate or knows the major reasons why people quit early. I presume someone around here has an idea?

If you are interested in careers "down the road", go after them now. I believe you have already had one person from NR tell you that you're barking up the wrong tree. If you are still dead set on the NR position, write a cover letter that explains how you've modeled your life after the "Rickover Principles". They'll be so impressed by that you'll effectively add 0.6 to your gpa. In the meantime you can practice for your future job by writing to a publisher about every grammatical error you found in a technical document.

[MMM]

If you are interested in careers "down the road", go after them now. I believe you have already had one person from NR tell you that you're barking up the wrong tree. If you are still dead set on the NR position, write a cover letter that explains how you've modeled your life after the "Rickover Principles". They'll be so impressed by that you'll effectively add 0.6 to your gpa. In the meantime you can practice for your future job by writing to a publisher about every grammatical error you found in a technical document.

I'd recommend ignoring this guy and listen to Gamecock, who's our resident SME on officer programs. That being said, it doesn't hurt to apply, after all, if you don't ask, there's no chance of being accepted.

[HeavyD]

If you are interested in being a SWO/sub officer, why are you looking at the NR Engineer position?

Junior officers are program managers for their respective divisions.  They work hand-in-hand with their senior enlisted (Chiefs) in their division to make sure that the division is compliant with their program requirements.  They evaluate personnel performance and assignments.  They do all this while qualifying and then standing watch in EOS (Enclosed Operating Space) on a carrier or Maneuvering (subs) in the propulsion plant.  And there's also the bridge watches they qualify and stand as a part of the ship's watchbill.

As they progress past the JO ranks, they actually start branching out into areas of the Navy that aren't nuclear.  For the SWOs, by the time they reach their 20 year point and are approaching the rank of Captain, there is a good possibility that they have spent just as much time in non-nuclear billets as nuclear billets.  Managing larger programs, being on the staff for some flag-officer, filling a billet in Afghanistan coordinating some outreach or reconstruction program or some other thing (all things accomplished by officers I served with during my 20 years).

As for retention rates, people get out for any number of reasons.  They decide they don't like being gone for extended periods of time, they see better opportunities monetarily, they decide the military life/style of managing isn't for them, etc.  Ask 20 people, get 20 differing answers.

Hopefully this rambling post sheds a little more light on what officers do in the US Navy.  What do you bring to the outside after you resign your commission?  Hopefully the ability to lead, prioritize, plan and manage.  A sense of how to show up to work on time (amazing as to what a challenge this little step is for some) and follow directions.  The ability to coordinate a group of individuals into being a team, and leading that team in fulfilling their part of the larger organization's goals.

As for Gamecock, he speaks as a former insider to the NR organization.

Best of luck to you in your endeavors.

[spekkio]

If I am unable to get into the NR Engineering, I could apply for the submarine and surface officer positions, though I would need a bit of time to think about those two positions. I'm not sure how much engineering is involved with the officer positions, or the future career prospects (design/manufacturing engineering, or engineering management) when I go back into the civilian world.

1) If you are male then SWO nuke is probably not an option for you via NUPOC. Your only choice in the nuclear Navy is submarines.

2) Submariners do no design engineering. "Engineering" in a sub are the guys that maintain the material readiness of the ship so it can get from point A to point B and operate the engineroom and its systems. On a submarine that happens to be a nuclear power plant, which entails a lot of extra specialized training and oversight, both from senior officers and civilians at naval reactors.

3) HeavyD's post is pretty spot on at mapping out what your responsibilities as a JO are. As a DIVO on a sub, you are primarily responsible for maintaining the records that prove the nuclear power plant is being properly maintained and supervised. You will have some hand in maintenance planning, but your role is mostly to bridge the gap between your Chief and the rest of the boat's schedule on a bigger picture. Your Chief handles the personnel and day-to-day managing of the division. However...

4) The job of a divo is only one 'hat' that you wear. The other 'hat' is a watch officer, either in the engineering room or in the control room. In the engineering plant you supervise the operation of a nuclear power plant and you are the central hub of communication in a casualty. In control, you are responsible for the safe navigation of the ship. On deployment you will do what's called 'contact management,' which is working with the enlisted sailors to integrate information from multiple sensors to produce an accurate contact picture for the OOD, who is usually a department head. This is because you can't see anything while submerged. Then there's in-port duty, where you spend most of your day approving tagouts and signing work authorization forms.

5) If you want to go back into engineering post-Navy, your best bet would be to get into a Master's program. You can use the GI bill to do this. Your 5-6 years spent away from a true engineering discipline will make you not current and could ding you. Also, your time spent in the nuclear power plant can be used as engineering experience to get into the official cool kid's club of engineers (I completely forget what this is called, but a guy from my boat did it). After you are qualified, tell your XO that you'd like to be the next QAO. Keep your old CO's contact info so you can get him to sign the forms.

[spekkio]

As they progress past the JO ranks, they actually start branching out into areas of the Navy that aren't nuclear.  For the SWOs, by the time they reach their 20 year point and are approaching the rank of Captain, there is a good possibility that they have spent just as much time in non-nuclear billets as nuclear billets.  Managing larger programs, being on the staff for some flag-officer, filling a billet in Afghanistan coordinating some outreach or reconstruction program or some other thing (all things accomplished by officers I served with during my 20 years).

More on this...

So it's actually written in law that officers have to get joint military education and serve in joint billets at some point. In addition, as you get more senior you have to be able to conduct operations in whatever theater your country might need should conflict arise. As such, the promotion and administrative boards value diverse experience for their officers.

In the sub force, it's entirely possible to map out a career that involves submarines and nuclear power in some fashion through your post XO shore tour, but at some point you will have to branch out and take JPME, serve in a joint job (admiral staff or pentagon), etc. Personally, I think the sooner you do this the better because you'll get exposure to how the rest of the military does business and there is a lot of value in seeing that first-hand. Having said that, as you get more senior certain shore jobs are considered 'must fills' (ie they suck but you have a good chance of screening your next career milestone, like prototype XO for a post navigator), some that are career neutral, and some that are career negative (non-observed fitrep at naval war college or naval postgraduate school as a LCDR). Most of the career enhancing or neutral jobs starting from after your second tour involve submarine squadron (underway time to do record reviews), admiral staff (reaallllly long hours and lots of travel), and nuclear power training billets.

http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/officer/Detailing/submarinenuclear/Documents/Sub%20Officer%20Career%20TACAID.pdf

http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/officer/Detailing/submarinenuclear/Documents/Public_Community_Status.pdf

Your career on rails...

There is more opportunity for diverse career experiences in the conventional SWO community. However, the nuke SWO community is so pressed to juggle officers between tactical and nuclear tours that you really don't get the same kind of branching available. If you are looking for a career that offers you a diverse amount of shore billet opportunities without dinging your promotion prospects, conventional SWO is your gig.

But really, all of this only comes into play if you decide to raise your hand after your initial tour is up. It's not something I would recommend primarily making a decision upon. For example, if you joined the conventional SWO force because of a prospect of diverse career opportunities, but hate your first tour, you're going to get out. You won't get far enough in your career for it to even matter.

[HiThere]

Thank you for your responses. I really appreciate your advices.

I'm not sure if I'll be sticking with the navy career for +20 years, especially if the NR engineering is unavailable as an option. At the car company, my mentor mentioned that the department administration wanted me back for another co-op term or as a full-time, so I guess I could contact them when I decide to leave the navy.

I'll be having a meeting with my recruiter next week, so I'll let you know if I make up my mind.

I recall during the phone conversation a few days ago, the recruiter said that I have the option to leave after working for 5 years, or go for 20 years of service to get the full pension. I presume I would be considered a veteran if I leave after 5 years of service or one tour?

[el batman]

Thank you for your responses. I really appreciate your advices.

I'm not sure if I'll be sticking with the navy career for +20 years, especially if the NR engineering is unavailable as an option. At the car company, my mentor mentioned that the department administration wanted me back for another co-op term or as a full-time, so I guess I could contact them when I decide to leave the navy.

I'll be having a meeting with my recruiter next week, so I'll let you know if I make up my mind.

I recall during the phone conversation a few days ago, the recruiter said that I have the option to leave after working for 5 years, or go for 20 years of service to get the full pension. I presume I would be considered a veteran if I leave after 5 years of service or one tour?

Yes you would be considered a veteran after 5 years of service. If you were to go into the Navy as a nuke officer don't count working for NR out. I have seen senior enlisted and officers leave the military to work for NR. Regardless of what you intentions are, successfully managing a nuclear propulsion plant will be proof that you can make intelligent decisions with limited information. Which in turn would prove to any potential employer that you exceed in personnel management and coordination. 

[HiThere]

How is the interview process? The recruiter said I'll be interviewing with the nuclear reactor engineers, and then with the admiral.

I'm also preparing for the technical exam. The recruiter said that everything I've learned so far will be fair games, such as optics in Physics II.