U.S. to announce fusion energy ‘breakthrough’

[Marlin]

U.S. to announce fusion energy 'breakthrough'

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/12/11/fusion-nuclear-energy-breakthrough/

[Rennhack]

Is the breakthrough... the realization that they can't achieve fusion as a commercial source of energy?

[Marlin]

Is the breakthrough... the realization that they can't achieve fusion as a commercial source of energy?

Tsk, Tsk, nabob of negativity. Remember if man was meant to fly, he would have wings. We are about to land men/women on the moon again in a couple of years. A lot of very smart people are laying a lot of private money on the possibility of success.

Just sayin'

[Mounder]

NIF wants more money.  DOE boasting for budget

[GLW]

NIF wants more money.  DOE boasting for budget

[Marlin]

NIF wants more money.  DOE boasting for budget

Success is rewarded. Why wouldn't they boast it is not a touchdown, but it may be a first down on their own side of the 50. Fusion advocates have celebrated required plasma temperatures achieved for fractions of a second. Now they have produced power from the plasma even if far short of commercial viability.

My plasma containment vessel is half full. 

[Rennhack]

My plasma containment vessel is half full. 

Is that like a few fries short of a happy meal?

[Marlin]

Is that like a few fries short of a happy meal?

   No that is like a rational person who knows he does not know everything, listening to people much smarter than us investing large sums of private money into it. You know the people willing to put their money where their mouth is. Most of the articles I read are on the optimistic side to one degree or another. The articles that say it is an employment program for engineers and scientists is declining. So maybe seems much more rational than never.

[Rennhack]

After 60 years of funding... They can convert 300 mega-joules of energy into 3 mega-joules of energy. What an incredible feat of science.

[Marlin]

After 60 years of funding... They can convert 300 mega-joules of energy into 3 mega-joules of energy. What an incredible feat of science.

I suppose if the primary purpose was for commercial power that would matter but it was for weapons. The critical numbers for commercial power were those of the energy delivered to the target and the energy created.

Just sayin'   

[Marlin]

For you Naysayers. 

[GLW]

https://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,21757.0.html

[Marlin]

https://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,21757.0.html

Not sure that an old debate applies to new breakthroughs. Articles by informed people sit on both sides of the debate. In a couple of articles, I posted earlier one PHD boohooed the breakthrough and another PHD is planning on using what was learned to build a new design based on the breakthrough. To be fair all sides say commercial will be decades away is at all.

[GLW]

Not sure that an old debate applies to new breakthroughs. Articles by informed people sit on both sides of the debate. In a couple of articles, I posted earlier one PHD boohooed the breakthrough and another PHD is planning on using what was learned to build a new design based on the breakthrough. To be fair all sides say commercial will be decades away is at all.

everybody was supposed to have a working prototype by now,....

"In 2010, more than 60 years after the first attempts, commercial power production is still believed to be unlikely before 2050."

"Such a plan shows why it will be very difficult to commission the first commercial-sized tokamak before 2050."

http://web.archive.org/web/20061107220145/http://www.iter.org/Future-beyond.htm

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18925354.300-bubble-fusion-makes-a-comeback.html

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18925432.900-are-days-numbered-for-bubble-fusion.html

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn8827

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18825280.100-fusion-fallacies.html

search for yourself, it's a never ending cycle of hype, followed by grants, followed by failure, followed by more hype, followed by more grants, followed by more failure, on and on and on,....

As pointed out here in October 2009, your passion for your job is inspirational.  Your information broadcast continues to reinforce what can be found here:  https://lasers.llnl.gov/.  Meanwhile, Newsweek also does a pretty good job of summing up the optimistic and pessimistic points of view.   Perhaps the bottom line is that the world is divided and "time will tell", as it does with all inventions pushing through innovation?  http://www.newsweek.com/id/222792/page/2

In the world of technical research, it seems that keeping up the hype and excitement in your expensive project/experiment is the key to continued funding.  How else would your senior PhD scientist there at LLNL keep his 10-figure grant money pouring in the front door for the last 20 years?  There is obviously some technical merit to the experiment, or it probably would not have gotten this far.

Personally, comparing an experimental energy conversion process to one that is on the streets (e.g., combustion, fission) running my car and powering my computer right now doesn't seem to be a fair argument, in my opinion.  The $3.5 Billion fusion toy that we have all invested in, seems to be just that...for now, but I hope my tax dollars work out for the DOE Lab there.  However, I'm convinced that I won't be dumping trash into a little fusion reactor in the trunk of my car anytime soon.   (Note reference to "Back to the Future").

Answer the challenge in the thread or live on as a cut/paste wack-job.

What were the metrics for your Milestone 1?  What were the objectives for Milestone 1, acceptance criteria, which ones were not met, why, what are the technological concerns now?

I want to know what my billions in tax dollars got me on 09/29/2010.  All I'm reading above is that over the next two years, another 8-10 figures of money will fly in the form of Grants.

Build your machine.  I love movies....
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118884/

"Why build one when through government contracts, you can build two?"

Co58

Marssim on Feb 13, 2011, 07:15
There is nothing in France of which you speak that copies the NIF, in Europe there are feasibility studies being funded;

In October 2008, Hiper received approximately 13m euros of funding to carry out a feasibility study. It also has access to European hardware and capability worth a further 50m euros.

If all goes well, engineers will begin to build the Hiper facility towards the end of the next decade, bringing the vision of a commercial fusion reactor one step closer to reality.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7972865.stm

In France they are building ITER, which is a magnetic, not laser, containment scheme;

http://www.iter.org/

[Marlin]

Non Sequitur answer. Old debate for today's breakthrough.