Getting out with Thomas Edison BSAT and MBA

[bbishop]

I'm a 10 year ET1 (hopefully ETC soon) getting out next April.  I have the BSAT from TEU and will have my MBA from Charleston Southern shortly after getting out.  I am qualified EWS and Master Training Specialist.  I've been a Training Coordinator for the last few years at NPTU Charleston.  I've gotten a lot of "send me your resume or call me when your 3 months from getting out" from people in my classes.  From what they tell me, I'm looking at around $50K for a non-nuke job in Charleston.  I'd really like to make more, but I'm not crazy about shift work.  I really need to stay in the Southeast: Mcguire or Oconee would be ideal.  I've read on this site that "instant SRO" or management may be options.  Can you guys give me some guidance?
Thanks!   

[shayne]

Keep checking those plant company websites for openings.  Non Licence Operator is also a start into the company as well as I&C technician (ET), mechanical maint (MM) or Electrical (EM).  If you are interested in training, it is also another option although I found (I came from NPTU NY, with TC quals, MTS) that training at nuclear plants want previous RO or SRO licence/Cert.  The shift work isn't as bad as NPTU.  Some plants are doing 12 hour shifts, 3 on, 4 off, 4 on, 3 off type rotation. $50k is about $25/hr, so it isn't a bad wage (NLO are ~$30/hr).  Remember that it is based on a 40 hour week so if you are given the opportunity to work more and paid for such (Salary Non-Exempt, Collective Bargaining Agreement) you could make more. 

Nuclear plants usually hire in cycles.  So imagine that every 18 months or so they post a job announcement, conduct interviews 1-2 months later and then start a class 1-2 months after the interview.    So getting an early start is better.  It is also wise to have money saved and bills paid just in case you get out in April and your dream job doesn't start until June. (Unemployment is also an option to help)  Having some leave available also, some have started a new job while still in the Navy on Leave or terminal leave.

Good Luck on your search for a new career and feel free to ask any questions that you have.  Most of us here have been in your same situation.

[bbishop]

Thanks for the information Shayne.
Does having an MBA matter in the Nuclear Industry?  Is management an option, or are they only promoted from within?  Does anyone know if Duke's plants are non-exempt?
SMISH

[Ordinary Joe]

Those aren't bad credentials.  The industry is facing a looming manpower shortage and companies are looking for people for all levels.  In my opinion, meeting somone who knows someone is of significant importance.  I have a TESC degree and an MBA as well.  It has payed off well in the industry.  I would recommend looking into the industry for a managemement position (SRO isnt out of the question).  Let me know if you'd like any more specifcs.

[bbishop]

Thanks for the input.  I'll take all the information I can get.  I have a lot of questions.  I've heard that managers work more hours for less money than your average operator.  Is this true?  Is it true that you can receive GI bill benefits for OJT?  Do most plants have 401K plans?  If so, do they match contributions?

[Nuclear NASCAR]

  Is it true that you can receive GI bill benefits for OJT?  Do most plants have 401K plans?  If so, do they match contributions?

I don't know about OJT, I do know about apprenticeship programs.  One of the apprentices in my class should be getting a nice check pretty soon after we finally got our apprenticeship program certified by the military.  As far as for OJT, I'd guess if the program can be, or already is, certified for GI bill there's no reason you shouldn't get your benefits. 

401K plans vary by location but I think most probably have them anymore.  You're asking a lot of good questions.  Keep it up. 

[Ordinary Joe]

I've heard that managers work more hours for less money than your average operator.  Is this true? 

Operators get paid well, period (well, relative to the Navy).  Being a NLO is a pretty serious upgrade in standard of living from that of a navy nuke.  That said,  ROs and NLOs get overtime at every plant and managers get overtime at some plants (usually straight pay).  An outage or two can lead to an RO earning significantly more than an SRO where they are not compensated for overtime.  There is some inequity but no one has to beg for food........ yet.

[bbishop]

Thanks a lot for your help. I'm not sure I understand a few things.  Is SRO a management postion? Is NLO the same thing as Aux Operator.  Are there two seperate schools for RO and SRO?  What is the time table for a person like me to get licensed in the South East region?

[Nuclear NASCAR]

Thanks a lot for your help. I'm not sure I understand a few things.  Is SRO a management postion? Is NLO the same thing as Aux Operator.  Are there two seperate schools for RO and SRO?  What is the time table for a person like me to get licensed in the South East region?

At most plants SRO (Senior Reactor Operator) is a management position.  Non-licensed Operator is the same as an Auxiliary Operator.  One normally must be an RO before becoming an SRO, not always but that is the normal course.  How quickly you become licensed depends on turnover and needs. 

[bbishop]

I made ET Chief!    Now I really have some decisions to make.  My wife and extended family think I should stay in 10 more years to get the pension, but I don't think I can stomach any more sea time.  I would miss my wife and the boys too much.  My career councelor says I should reenlist and then put in for LDO.  He said the MBA would make me a sure bet.  This reminds me of my recruiter telling me to come in enlisted.  He said that they would pick me up for an officer program in no time.  Besides, LDOs go to sea also.  The StayNavy website says I need to gross $88K a year on the outside to equal my pay and benefits as a Chief at sea.  It also says I will need to invest $30K per year to have a similar retirement plan.  I don't know what to do.  I've never been so stressed out by a decision.  Please Help! 

[hamsamich]

30k a year for the same ret. plan!  I know that one is BS.  My dad has been saving just a couple thousand a year since he was 35.  He's taken some hits in the stock market but he still has around 400 thousand in his 401k at age 60 besides his pension and other savings.  If he would have saved 30k a year he would have millions by now.  I was in the nav for years on fast boats late 80s early 90s as ELT.  They were always trying to tout that "your navy benefits are worth over 100k a year".  There are some good ones, but 100k, what a crock.  Maybe if you used every single thing they offer 7 days a week, 24 hours a day.  Those people (recruiters) have an agenda and you are the prize.  Stop listening to them.  Should you count all your time at sea as 24 hours a day and calculate a payrate per hour based on that?  If you worked that much OT in the real world you would make way more than 88k a year.  I suggest, since this is a HUGE decision, that you write down a list of negatives and positives.  pos/neg for Navy and pos/neg for getting out.  BE HONEST with yourself and assign each with a score of importance from 1 to 5.  For instance, spending much more time with sons maybe a 5, but spending more time with wife might be a -2.  Who knows.  But be honest!  Don't BS yourself.  You can make over 100k a year in the commercial world as an AO, RO or SRO within 3 years at some plants, and if you are disciplined you can put 5k a year away easy, but if you can't handle doing that and you know it, then stay in the Navy.  Now is the time to get serious and honest.  Be sure to take into consideration the rising cost of health care also, especially if your family or you have any health problems.  Rate the health care you've received in the Navy and compare it to what you will get on the outside.  My buddy ET1 Paul who is retired with 21 years is actaully paying the navy for some of his family's health benifits, which I thought was strange, so watch out for that.  There are pos and neg for getting out and staying in, now is the time to make an informed decision.

[shayne]

I remember the stay Navy Calculator.  As E-6 over 10 years, my military compensation was around $60k/yr and I would have to make $70k/yr outside of the Navy for the same compensation.  However as I looked at my LES, I figured I was at $36k/yr with all allowances.  So I never really liked it.  I knew what my takehome was and knowing that I could find a job outside of the Navy bringing in the same amount each paycheck was important.  Now that I'm out, I bring home more money every paycheck, max out my 401k ($14k this year), have better medical/dental plans than the Navy offered, and I don't work as many hours.  So if the Navy is correct in their calculator, my $60k/yr job now (40 hours) wasn't as good as I had it in the Navy, which is not true.

I did the pros/cons for each as noted above and found getting out was my decision.  My quality of life outranked the pay I made in the Navy, so I looked for a job that paid as a minimum the same per paycheck I made in the Navy.  I know my quality of life is much better than I had it in the Navy at prototype as an instructor (no desire to go back to sea either).  I would recommend doing the pros and cons for each and make a decision.  It worked for me.

[bbishop]

Thanks for the advice guys.  I did the pros and cons you talked about.  The only significant pros I came up with were the pension, the bonus, job security, and status as a Cheif.  The bonusses are $60K for the first 3 yrs. and then $100K for the next six.  I came up with a hundred cons.  Anyone who has been to sea knows what those are. I've decided to ask for a 4 month extension past my EAOS so I can finish my MBA at Charleston Southern.  I'll go to some job fairs in the Spring and try to get some interviews at some plants in the Southeast.  In August, if the money looks decent (over $60K/yr), I'll get out.  If the extension doesn't go through, I'll finish my MBA online or draw unemployment and GI Bill money while I finish. I'm still not sure if they are going to pay me for Chief or if my DD214 will say I was an ETC.  My Master Chief thinks you have to have two years left on your contract in order to be officially advanced and paid.

[Already Gone]

Back in the old days, they wouldn't even frock a chief unless he had enough time remaining to cover two years after the date of advancement.  For some guys, that meant 2 and 1/2 years from frocking to EAOS.  I remember one ET1 who carried that Boot Chief book for a month and gave it back.  He didn't want to extend to meet the 2 years.  They made him pay back the uniform allowance.  Fortunately, he hadn't spent it all on new khakis and could sell all the stuf he did buy.
The money thing is way overrated.  Even a guy with an MBA can probably see my point.  If you like what you are doing, keep doing it.  If you are miserable, then who cares about money?  What I'm saying is, don't lock yourself into something you hate because you couldn't find a job that paid enough.  You can make less money for a while and still be happy.  Odds are that with an MBA, you'll find a way to increase your income by doing something that you enjoy.  Good luck.

[bbishop]

It looks like they are going to approve the extension so that I can finish my Masters.  I also found out that there is no minimum time required to advance to Chief unless you are approaching retirement and you want your retirement pay to be at the higher pay grade. 

I have one more question about benefits.  My wife and I had our second boy last week.  Can anyone tell me how much health insurance will be for a family of four if I'm working at a plant in the Southeast?

[Rad Sponge]

Speaking of 60K per year.

Holy fully taxed income batman!!

Man, those career counselors were not bullsh-tt--g when they told you that your pay was worth 1.35 more because of what was not taxed.

So when is this National Sales Tax supposed to occur???

Sponge

[Already Gone]

I also found out that there is no minimum time required to advance to Chief unless you are approaching retirement and you want your retirement pay to be at the higher pay grade. 

Translated into english, that means that they will frock you (making you buy all new uniforms) but never advance you to E-7.  In my day, they wouldn't do that because they didn't want to allow the junior guys see so many chiefs get out.  It was bad for retention to frock a chief and watch him leave a few months later.  So, they made you commit for the time before they let you put on khakis.  Make doubly sure of what you are signing.  By accepting advancement to Chief Petty Officer, you could be obligating yourself.  Get it all in writing the day BEFORE you sign anything.

[bbishop]

I'm actually 1st increment. My frocking date is the same as my advancement date, so I'll get paid October 1st along with the uniform allowance. There's actually several others from my group that are considering getting out this year. One guy is getting out 4 months after frocking. There is no additional committment. We cleared that up with the mess president the first week of initiation.

[Rad Sponge]

In the humble opinion of an ex MM1(SS)...

If you go through initiation, get frocked, get pinned, all that and then just get out you have wasted the time of many people that spend invaluable time training you to be a Chief.

Congrats that you made Chief, well, E-7 (I think the Chief thing takes awhile), BUT do not waste the time of the real Chiefs that are investing their experience and knowledge into you or whomever else is getting the ego trip just to put on Khaki and then get out. That is a disgrace.

I spent a year of my life being the Exec Assit to a Command Master Chief and as such I was privy to Chief stuff not normally acessible to lowly blue shirts, but in exchange for my utmost decorum I was given the oppurtunity to help develop the training curriculum and put together the schedules for the initiation process. You don't know how many Chief-Hours went into the 2 month process of getting you a clue of what it means to be a Chief. Hundreds of hours go into the process development and countless hours during the process to keep the machine running smoothly.

Thats just my 2 cents, do what thou will, but don't waste the Navy's time.

[hamsamich]

Yeah, but what happens when you tell them you don't want it and they try to screw you?  In the Navy I was in, it was dog eat dog.  I don't know exactly how all the chief stuff works, but watch your own butt.  I can't tell you how many times I had to keep my true intentions hidden in the Navy just to get by.  I don't like being manipulative, but I tried to do it right in the Navy and it never really worked out too well.  I'm not saying everyone was out to get me, but out of all the people in my chain of command, one of them was usually a bad apple.  I loved my time in the Navy now that I think back on it, and I needed what the Navy taught me but......do what you gotta do SMISH, we all know how the Navy can be.

[bbishop]

I answer the same questions every week. "Why are you going through initiation if you are getting out? Why are you wasting the Chief's time? What about those guys that are committed to the Navy and didn't make it because of you?"

I still have at least 7 months left in the Navy and I am not the type of person who will effectively quit several months before I get out.  There is always the chance that I'll stay in if they offer me the duty station I want and support me in finishing my Masters.

I would be stupid to turn down a promotion that I earned, especially when it involves a nice pay raise.  It has absolutely nothing to do with my ego. I have a commitment to my family first and foremost.  If those other first classes had taken the tough jobs, qualified everything possible, and worked nights on their degrees, maybe they would have made it instead of me.

I am not wasting anyone's time.  I absorb everything the Chief's are teaching me and believe that it will be useful training for the rest of my life, whether I am in the Navy or not. I am up front with everyone about my career intentions. If they choose not to put any effort into training me because of that, I will deal with it.  Thankfully, that hasn't been the case so far.  I guess its the kindler, gentler Navy.

[shayne]

I have one more question about benefits.  My wife and I had our second boy last week.  Can anyone tell me how much health insurance will be for a family of four if I'm working at a plant in the Southeast?

Your health care costs will depend on the plan.  The company should offer you a choice of a few different plans.  Each plan will have different options (copays, deductables, limits, etc.) and will be different types (HMO, PPO, etc.)  Depending on how much of the plan the company pays, you will pay the difference every paycheck.  I have seen some plans as low as $30/paycheck for medical and dental up to $150/paycheck.   

I would do the initation also.  You may decide at the last minute to stay in.

[Fermi2]

It depends on the company. Mine has no HMOs. It also depends on your age and whether you smoke or not. After 1 dependent the cost doesn't go up. Oh and it depends on your position and how much you make a year.

I chose the middle option for my insurance because my family is usually pretty healthy.

It's a Blue Cross Plan. I they start paying 80% after I pay a 300/Individual or 600/Family deductible. They also pay for 250$ worth of physicals for each family member. I believe it's capped at 2500 dollars so if my costs get that high they pay 100%

My dental covers either 80 or 90%, with 1000 dollars for orthodontics for children under 19.

I think total I pay 85/paycheck which isn't bad. It comes out of pre tax dollars. I figured it out once and if I didn't have to pay that 85 I'd end up taking home maybe 20 bucks a month more.

There were other options like a 90% plan with co pays and one without co pays, but they cost a LOT more. So far I've come out ahead. I think I've paid something like 75 towards my deductibles. If I chose one of the other plans I think it would have come out to 150 a month more.

DTE Energy was actually pretty darn good at Benefits, especially if you were in HAP a local HMO. Trouble is DTE SUCKED at administering them.

I hear Dominion really rakes their employees on the benefit end.

Mike

[RRPC4]

I am an EM2 transfering to Charleston soon.  I won't know if it will be to NPTU or "A" School (which I would prefer) because my boat has been giving me the run-around on my EWS board for the last 8 months.  I am only a couple of classes away from finishing my BSAST with TESC.  I was wondering how hard it was for you to get you MBA with Charelston Southern?  I had also planned on getting an MBA, I have just been concentrating on my undergrad for right now though.  How much credit did you get?  How many classes did you have to take?  Was TA able to cover all of it?  If not, how much came out of your own pocket?  Any help would be appreciated.  On another note.... I will be getting out in pretty much the same circumstances, an EM1 (well you are an ETC now) with 10 years, hopefully qualified EWS and I am already a QAI.  I also have my Apprenticship for "Maintenance Electricain".  Can anyone tell me what kind of jobs I can get with the QAI and Apprenticship?  Does that help me?  I also heard that people are looking to hire Navy Nukes that are coming out with only 6 years experience, rather than some more seasoned guys.  Is this true?

[bbishop]

When I got to NPTU, I already had my BSAT.  I concentrated on quals the first year and then began looking at colleges.  I chose CSU because it has a nice campus and it is on my way home from work.  I had to take 4 prereqs in the classroom, clep one, and transfer one I had already taken.  These were: Accounting I and II, Economics, Management, and Finance.  You can take graduate courses at the same time if it works better for your schedule.  I've been taking 2 classes per semester including summers.  Your required to take 10 grad-level classes for the general MBA.  An MBA with an emphasis in a particular area requires two additional courses.  Including the prereqs, it will take me about 7 semesters.  Tuition assistance has paid for the first 12 semester hours per year.  GI bill has paid the rest.  The only out of pocket expenses I have had were for books.  Some people take 3 classes per semester.  I don't think that's possible unless you don't work fulltime.  It is very hard to do well when your working rotating shiftwork.  You miss a few classes per semester because of swingshift, and it's difficult to get work done during the Swings/Mids part of the rotation. I recommend that you stay on the boat as long as it takes to get EWS and orders to A school.