The Contract and the Waiver (Help Please)

[Sween19]

Hello everyone this is my first post.

I'm interested in becoming a NUKE and a month ago went down to the recruiter in Philadelphia where I've been living for the past few months. I scored a 94 on the ASVAB and passed my physical when I went to MEPS. After that I was told I would need 3 letters of reference from employers and the police report from a felony I commited at age 13. I got the letters of reccomendation together and the recruiter said they would send in the first waiver to the Navy. I did this and a week later the recruiters said they needed the police report from the felony. So I had my father overnight it to me and showed up with it the next day (today) in person.

When I went in this morning the recruiter told me I would have to go down to MEPS and sign a contract for another job (advanced electrical engineering) or they couldn't (or wouldn't) send the Nuke Waiver in.

I assume that these people want me to lock into a contract in the event that NUKE passes on me. So I told them point blank it was "against my better judgement to  sign a contract until I knew what it was for"...so they told me to leave the recruiter office. 

My question is twofold.

First, is this really procedure (in the event of a felony record you must sign a contract for lesser job before the felony waiver is processed to NUKE) or are they trying to railroad me into signing as I suggested.

Second, what should I do next If I still want to pursue Nuke. I've considered calling MEPS and explaining the situation or contacting another recruiter and letting them no what happened and my intentions.

Thank you for any advice or suggestions in this my information gathering phase.

~Paul Sweeney

[bordway]

Yeah, that's smart of you not to sign anything.  You are only garunteed what you're contracted, if you sign a contract saying you're going to get one job then that's most likely what you'll get.  They need to meet quotas and althought they have a nuke quota you're still filling a quota so what prevents them from keeping you under your contracted job if you've signed that paper?  So smart move.  I would call MEPS, try other recruiters in the area, and maybe even head recruiters higher up the chain than the one recruiter. 

If you get an answer like: 'You can get your job changed in bootcamp' that is most often a lie.  Most of the people were very dissappointed in my boot division whose recruiters got them to sign a contract to be undesignated (no gauranteed a-school or job) on the promise they could pick something later at bootcamp.  Get everything promised to you in writing. 

Also, it could possibly be that whatever your felony was was disqualifying for nuke.  Hope I helped a little.  Just call people until you get your answer.  Good luck

[Fermi2]

A Felony cannot be waived.

Mike

[smoothtoaster]

I had a good experience with signing the wrong paperwork, but I feel that I may be the exception.

I went to MEPS at the end of the month (the 27th) I believe and I scored very well on my ASVAB and pre-qualified for the Nuke field. However, when I talked to the classifier they told me that they had met their quota for the nuke field and that I would have to come back the next month to sign for NF. So I signed for ACEF to ship out in March of 07 (so that I would clearly have the time to change my rate) and went in the next month and changed to NF. I wouldn't have done it if my recruiter, the chief of the recruiting station here, the nuke recruiter, and my classifier hadn't all assured me that I would be back to change it; however, I have a really great recruiter and I have always trusted him very much and he has always been very truthful.


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smoothtoaster

[smoothtoaster]

Being in Philly, is your MEPS in Baltimore? That is where I went to MEPS (I live in baltimore, but it is the Philly recruiting district). As I said earlier, they are good people there.

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smoothtoaster

[MomTrumpsAll]

My son became a Depper in Sept 05. He was 17. In October (I think) he went down to MEPS, took the ASVAB the first day, and we met him down there the second. He passed the physical.
He, his father and I all met with the classifier for at least an hour. We did not even know of the existence of the Nuke program at the time, until they called in a nuke guy who came in and explained it to us. They said they thought for sure he would pass the test, but he needed to pick something else in case he didn't.
To be honest, our son at that time did not care what they gave him, he just wanted to be in the Navy. He picked something that he would be happy with, for 6 yrs.
A couple of weeks later he took the nuke test, passed, and signed new papers.
We were told later that he could back out up until the day he left for boot camp, though I don't know if that is true.
He has no record, traffic or otherwise, and I cannot think of one time during the DEP process where we as his parents have not been included when we wanted to be, or we have been lied to. His boot camp begins Aug 9.

[Fermi2]

My son became a Depper in Sept 05. He was 17. In October (I think) he went down to MEPS, took the ASVAB the first day, and we met him down there the second. He passed the physical.
He, his father and I all met with the classifier for at least an hour. We did not even know of the existence of the Nuke program at the time, until they called in a nuke guy who came in and explained it to us. They said they thought for sure he would pass the test, but he needed to pick something else in case he didn't.
To be honest, our son at that time did not care what they gave him, he just wanted to be in the Navy. He picked something that he would be happy with, for 6 yrs.
A couple of weeks later he took the nuke test, passed, and signed new papers.
We were told later that he could back out up until the day he left for boot camp, though I don't know if that is true.
He has no record, traffic or otherwise, and I cannot think of one time during the DEP process where we as his parents have not been included when we wanted to be, or we have been lied to. His boot camp begins Aug 9.

OK what's this babbling about? Is there a question here?

Mike

[taterhead]

OK what's this babbling about? Is there a question here?

Mike

I think the main point was that her kid had to choose an alternate rating just in case nuke fell through.

It turned out well, and he ships out detailed for nuke in a couple of weeks.

Come on man, read for comprehension....

[Nuclear NASCAR]

I think the main point was that her kid had to choose an alternate rating just in case nuke fell through.

It turned out well, and he ships out detailed for nuke in a couple of weeks.

Come on man, read for comprehension....

Have some karma taterhead.  You said it much better than I could have. 

[MomTrumpsAll]

Thank you, yes that was the point. That my son signed some papers, was told something that was not a lie, and was changed to the nuclear whatever.

FYI, I am old, I have raised 3 children past the teen years, and I live 8 miles from a nuclear power plant (and always have) that in all probability has leaked once or twice during it's lifetime.
I have earned the right to babble imo and in all likelihood can't help it due to my chromosones being nuked repeatedly.
Furthermore, if anyone can't take this as the joke it was intended to be, you are worse off than I.

[Fermi2]

It wasn't meant to be arguementative, I read her post three times and couldn't find either a question or a coherent point. Even after it being explained I couldn't find one.

It seems like two different topics rolled into one without any connecting tissue is all.

Mike

[nucruiter]

A Felony cannot be waived.

Mike

Don't take this the wrong way, but you shouldn't be answering questions that you don't know the answer to.  you are 100% wrong.  I have, in two years, put 3 people with felonies into the nuclear program, and yes, properly with a waiver. 

It all depends on what the felony was, and the circumstances behind it.  Now this person may never come back here and get the truth because you are talking out your ###.  Information changes from year to year, month to month, and day to day.  So, unless you are either a recruiter, a nuke recruiter, or sleeping with one of the two, it would be nice if you would leave knowledge to the professionals.

You are constantly rude to people on here, and i have seen at least one other post of yours where you were wrong about policy.  The recruiter most likely wants to make sure this guy can even get into the Navy, before trying to get him into the Nuclear program.  No reason to put the cart before the horse.

Thanks for your continued cooperation.

[Fermi2]

Oops. I do take it back. I was thinking commercial world. You cannot work in the commercial world with a felony conviction or if you pleaded to a felony.

On that, I'll take the hit.

As for being rude, answering openly and honestly is not being in the least rude. If you're gonna be in this industry you best be ably to take a bruise or a scratch or two.

Mike

[taterhead]

So, unless you are either a recruiter, a nuke recruiter, or sleeping with one of the two, it would be nice if you would leave knowledge to the professionals.

Following this logic, there would not be any need for this forum at all, or if it were to exist, YOU could take the time to answer every post and moderate the forum.

Secondly, people generally come here AFTER they think a recruiter has given them a bunch of doublespeak and party-line used-car-sales jive.  We try to help sort it out.  I can't even count how many soon-to-be nukes have gotten great info here, from Broadzilla and the rest of the contributors.

Please don't berate those who are trying to help.  A simple correction of the misinformation will suffice.

[PWHoppe]

Please don't berate those who are trying to help.  A simple correction of the misinformation will suffice.

Well put Karma to ya!

Also Karma to nucruiter for setting the story straight

Thanks to all for contributing, let's not forget that that it is the end user we are trying to help and how the info gets there really doesn't matter.

BTW I know that BZ is never rude , but in the land of cyberspace it is very hard to transmit expressions. I sometimes find that people miss my point because they can't see that I'm joking. But as usual just my opinion I could be wrong

[ChiefRocscooter]

As an former recruiter (and I was Nuc recruiter of the year for NRD Jax, runner up in Area 3) let me say that while there are rule and things that CANNOT be waivered, if fact every rule has an exception and everything can be waivered!! (I mean in the sense that there is always a story behind the tale and thus I have seen things get waivered that "sounded" lilke sure no-gos.  That said any recruiter who tells a kid that if you do not DEP in no waiver will go off must be looking at nubers and quotas and not the applicant (that what they are before they become recruits!!).  The Navy is not so fat with new recruits that we would turn down an applicant (Nuc potential) because he will not Dep in for somthing else.  More than likely they (knowing the story behind the crime (hopefully they got it) knew he would get a no go for Nuc but not for the Navy as a whole so they figured they could set the hook with somthing else and the "it will help you get the Nuc waiver", and then when it got turned down they would be "awww that's to bad , but you'll like this job and well you are depped in (read this is where the you can't back out pressure starts!!).
Now when I carried the bag (which interestingly enough we never actually had bag, but anyway....) we would test a guy for Nuc and pull his transcripts ect.. becuase beleive it or not
qualifying for Nuc helped kids get waivers (even if they Nuc branch people came back and said no!!) This gae them the best shot of getting in but did not "trick" them.
One last note: nucruiter when you said
"The recruiter most likely wants to make sure this guy can even get into the Navy, before trying to get him into the Nuclear program.  No reason to put the cart before the horse."

Sounds like recruiter double speak because.. If they wanted him to sign a contract then they already had him a waiver to get in the NAVY!! (no waiver no contract you can not dep in without a waiver/contract!!, ah yes remeber the Army who runs MEPS com, will not let people dep in if they are not qualified to join (means no waiver no DEP!!).  So unless I am wayy off base this seem to me to be the kind of recruiting that makes recruited look bad (I fought it alot when I was out there, for 4+ years). 
Hey if I am wrong tell me and I will listen and learn and after 22 year in MY Navy I can still learn.

Rob

[ChiefRocscooter]

Ok sorry about all the typos but I was a little fired up.

[Roll Tide]

Ok sorry about all the typos but I was a little fired up.

Justifiably upset, I might add.

I have to agree with you; it looks pretty shaky.

[visserjr]

Its a firey topic. Don't sign a thing with a recruiter unless it is what you absolutey want. You can back out up to the very moment you swear in at meps before boarding the plane(did it the first time, missed my girl, left for bc a week later after drinkin a beer with the ole man who by the way swore me in to ensure I didn't back out.) Also a firey thing because they are waiving more and more "of life's experiences" than they ever did when I joined in the early 90's or when the more experienced folks here did. Which some would argue is lowering the standards to meet quotas. Don't be hard on Mike. He's a great guy and a straight shooter, who (if I am not mistaked) interviews and hires people in the comercial world and did his time on the pond of the navy world as well. I foud his advise, as well as others, very usefull in many aspects. If I could give you all a Karma hug I would, but I can't afford the gold membership as of yet.

No Worries,
John

[jamdaws]

I hate when people say they are lowering standards because there are more waivers than ever.  As if the people who joined back in the day did no wrong and were perfect candidates.  Fact...the reason there are more waivers is because there are far more people being prosecuted and documented than before.  The applicant pool is a rather static entity as far as quality.  The government has far better technology and far more zeal to apprehend people for petty crimes than before.  Its just like the "don't ask don't tell" policy.  Does anyone here actually believe that there is actually an influx of gays in the military today because more are getting caught? 

[Roll Tide]

Its just like the "don't ask don't tell" policy.  Does anyone here actually believe that there is actually an influx of gays in the military today because more are getting caught? 

I am sure there is no possible way to respond to this on the public boards. Please don't. I don't want to spend the next week deleting offensive posts.

[visserjr]

Well said roll Tide.

[ChiefRocscooter]

The wavier issue is not what I worry about (most of them deserve a chance to improve thier lives, maybe not as Nukes but the Navy is big and has room all types).  My issue is with the idea of not being straight with someone becuase when a recruiter "lies" he "lies" for all of us who are or have served, after all it is/was our Navy.  If that kids only wants to be a NUC the recruiter needs to be straight with him, and in fact I would tell him ok never mind because what happens if he dos'nt make it , we all know lots of drop got kicked out / trashed thier lives because thier recruiters did not prepare them to be in the NAVY.  We joined the Navy and got to be Nuc, we were not Nucs who joined the NAVY!

Rob

[Sween19]

First of all I'd like to thank everyone for all the constructive input. I called down to MEPS in Baltimore and talked to a Mr. Gilmore. He told me that what I was going to have to sign was a letter of intent so that they could process the waivers not a contract. Mr. Gilmore is going to call the recruiting office in Philly and they will call me from what I'm told. I'll keep you posted on how it goes.

[smoothtoaster]

Mr. Gilmore is the man.

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smoothtoaster