San Onofre (SONGS)

[vikingfan]

you might check the ca labor laws also, not sure but i believe if you work 7 consecutive days, the 7th day is a double time day. it was 2 years ago anyhow.

[Droshen]

Is this schedule actually being used at this time for (A)NPEO's?  Are there contract negotiations?  Is this possibly an attempt by the company to gain leverage in contract negotiations?

[Droshen]

From gov site.  "Exemptions" did not seem to apply.  Not sure about "exceptions".

"In California, the general overtime provisions are that a nonexempt employee 18 years of age or older, or any minor employee 16 or 17 years of age who is not required by law to attend school and is not otherwise prohibited by law from engaging in the subject work, shall not be employed more than eight hours in any workday or more than 40 hours in any workweek unless he or she receives one and one-half times his or her regular rate of pay for all hours worked over eight hours in any workday and over 40 hours in the workweek. Eight hours of labor constitutes a day's work, and employment beyond eight hours in any workday or more than six days in any workweek is permissible provided the employee is compensated for the overtime at not less than:

         1. One and one-half times the employee's regular rate or pay for all hours worked in excess of eight hours up to and including 12 hours in any workday, and for the first eight hours worked on the seventh consecutive day of work in a workweek; and
         2. Double the employee's regular rate or pay for all hours worked in excess of 12 hours in any workday and for all hours worked in excess of eight on the seventh consecutive day of work in a workweek.

There are, however, a number of exemptions from the overtime law.  An "exemption" means that the overtime law does not apply to a particular classification of employees.  There are also a number of exceptions to the general overtime law stated above. An "exception" means that overtime is paid to a certain classification of employees on a basis that differs from that stated above."

[HydroDave63]

From gov site.  "Exemptions" did not seem to apply.  Not sure about "exceptions".

"In California, the general overtime provisions are that a nonexempt employee 18 years of age or older, or any minor employee 16 or 17 years of age who is not required by law to attend school and is not otherwise prohibited by law from engaging in the subject work, shall not be employed more than eight hours in any workday or more than 40 hours in any workweek unless he or she receives one and one-half times his or her regular rate of pay for all hours worked over eight hours in any workday and over 40 hours in the workweek. Eight hours of labor constitutes a day's work, and employment beyond eight hours in any workday or more than six days in any workweek is permissible provided the employee is compensated for the overtime at not less than:

         1. One and one-half times the employee's regular rate or pay for all hours worked in excess of eight hours up to and including 12 hours in any workday, and for the first eight hours worked on the seventh consecutive day of work in a workweek; and
         2. Double the employee's regular rate or pay for all hours worked in excess of 12 hours in any workday and for all hours worked in excess of eight on the seventh consecutive day of work in a workweek.

There are, however, a number of exemptions from the overtime law.  An "exemption" means that the overtime law does not apply to a particular classification of employees.  There are also a number of exceptions to the general overtime law stated above. An "exception" means that overtime is paid to a certain classification of employees on a basis that differs from that stated above."

Your questions on ANPEO schedules were answered previously, did you not read them? Had you researched one of the "exemptions" above, you would find that a Collective Bargaining Agreement is one of the exemptions. Either take the job (if offered) or don't, but don't ask questions if you aren't going to read the answers that people take time to provide.

[dinutt]

Droshen   Congrats on passing the POSS test!!! now, you really need to talk with the bargaining unit (agreement) folks there and find out what all this pay scale and hours worked etc are all about.if you take this job and get there and then find out the answers to all your questions  is not what you are expecting ( everyone here on the site has been very good in providing you with some here),but exhausting yourself and trying to find out all this money issues is something you should find out prior to taking this job.It has to be important enough for you ask here but  the company who hired you for this  position and the bargaining agreement is what you need to check on from here whether you take or not this job offer. whatever you decide to do make sure you understand what you are getting yourself into.if not you could get there and be mad at yourself for taking this job and it could make it a miserable place to have to work at..just some thoughts for you. Best of luck .........

Di

[tr]

The 12 hour day work schedule was an "experimental" work schedule, which had been in place at SONGS for years.  In August, the union decide to cancel the experiment.  See page 10 at:

http://www.uwua246.org/HOMEPAGE/Documents/2008Negotiations/2008ContractNegotiations1h.pdf

Other than the general issue of contract negotiations, I do not know why the union made this decision.

[Droshen]

Thanks for the interesting responses.  Paulers: based on your layout of the schedule and HydroDave's claim that apparently the normal California "OT over 40" rule has been waived thru "Collective Bargaining Agreement", I came up with figure of average weekly pay of 43.3 X straight time pay.  I think this is almost the same bottom line as the previous "experimental" setup which I think is 43.8 X straight time.  I thought this was management's idea- seems odd that the union, which usually represents the will of the workers, would implement this schedule since your consensus in these forums so far seems to indicate that you prefer the previous setup.  Di: obviously I agree with you- get all details before switching jobs.  I will try to get info from "bargaining unit", by which I believe you mean the union.  Thanks again, Droshen...........

[Laundry Man]

Which planet did you grow up on?

"which usually represents the will of the workers"
LM

[SloGlo]

you might check the ca labor laws also, not sure but i believe if you work 7 consecutive days, the 7th day is a double time day. it was 2 years ago anyhow.

7th day wuz o.t. day 25yeers ago, much to c-e inc.s dismay, 'n still iz two day.....

   Q.   If an employee works unauthorized overtime is the employer obligated to pay for it?

   A.   

Yes, California law requires that employers pay overtime, whether authorized or not, at the rate of one and one-half times the employee's regular rate of pay for all hours worked in excess of eight up to an including 12 hours in any workday, and for the first eight hours of work on the seventh consecutive day of work in a workweek, and double the employee's regular rate of pay for all hours worked in excess of 12 in any workday and for all hours worked in excess of eight on the seventh consecutive day of work in a workweek.[/font]

http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/FAQ_Overtime.htm

[Droshen]

LM:

I have not been involved with a union in in a really long time, so if you are insinuating that I am not knowledgeable when it comes to unions, you're right.  As I think about my union experience (Teamsters), not sure that I benefited much from being a member.  However, I know people that are longshore mechanics, and that's a different matter.  I think each union is different and should be judged on its own merit- apparently you give your union a very low score.  I am impressed with the hourly wage, but with the info I have so far on the schedule, I think to say it's bizarre is putting it charitably. 

SloGlo:

From what I see in the posts of Paulers and HydroDave, I get the impression the California "OT over six days" as well as the "OT over fourty hours" rules have been waived.   

[SloGlo]

SloGlo:

From what I see in the posts of Paulers and HydroDave, I get the impression the California "OT over six days" as well as the "OT over fourty hours" rules have been waived.   

when i did songs weigh back when, we where tolled it was waived too, but da reason given for da waiver wuz dat we (my group of techs with combustion-engineering, inc) was from out of state (conneticut).  we didn't get all the o.t. deserved.  about a year later, a check came in the mail as the result of the law suit regarding dis stuff.  c-e had two pay.  unless ya kin show da legal basis for a waiver, complete wit url to a california government branch, eye wood knot believe it to be in existence. 

[Arkane]

the 'work week' begins/ends Sunday night at midnight. so they can schedule 7 consecutive days and still pay for a 40-hour work week, every week. days off are in the middle of the week. the only built-in OT is the 1.25 hrs/wk for the daily 15min turnover.

we are losing 100 hrs/yr built-in OT by switching to 8's..

g'luck w/ the knowledge exam!

[SloGlo]

check yer state laws, aye yam pretty sure dat califurnia counts a 7 days inna row as 7 days inna row, regardless of watt day they start. 

[dinutt]

  Slogo once again I believe your math is correct and it is 7 for 7 no matter which day of week off so with that Droshen thanks for admitting your not being familiar with the  union at this time and they are all different  try to get these answers so you can have some peace of mind and can accept this job (ifn tis is watt you want slo doe sit so much batter) .I hope they tell you everything you need to know and you can then share your info with others here on this thread.it has been enlightening.......I am familiar with this type of schedule and the roller coaster it has been........Best to you!!

[Paulers]

Arkane is correct.  We do not recieve OT for working 7 days in a row.  Even though we work 7 in a row the "work week" Sunday thru Sunday contains only 5 working days.  There are weeks that have more days off so it works out to approx 40 hours a week plus 15 min a day OT for turnover.

Yes UWUA 246 used the Operators schedule as a bargining chip.  The union is attempting to negotiate a contract for all its members at SONGS.  That includes clerical, I&C, Test Techs, B&C etc...  Under our old agreement between the company and the union we were able to work 12 hr shifts with no O.T. for anything over 8.  CA law requires the labor group and company to agree to this.  Since contract negotiations were going nowhere the agreement was pulled by the union.  This has affected the work flow and hopefully will encourage the company to be generous with the new contract.  Meanwhile most of us would like our old schedule back - we miss our 7 offs - and we are encouraging the union to negotiate a contract so we can get back to that schedule or something like it.

I would encourage you to study all 800 pages of the Westrain material and take the knowledge test.  NLO rate is approx $34 an hour right now.  With a new contract it could be better.  Lots of new people in Ops so it is an interesting time.   Right now many SONGs operators have gone to/ or are seeking opportunities at other plants in areas with a lower cost of living.  At least working here will look good on a resume if you decide to go somewhere else.

When is your knowledge test?

[Droshen]

Paulers:

I should have been given date for knowledge exam by now; things must not be normal in HR now.  I have had to slow down my study process because of things I had to take care of and hectic job.  I will admit that though I find the Westrain material interesting, it's tough going.   The induction process I'm in is for ANPEO: $27.50, if you advance it goes to $31.53, then Primary NPEO is $35.53 at current rates.  I'm not sure what you mean by NLO or OPs positions- I'll research that.  After looking at some the links in the excellent earlier posts of yeehaw, I can see that the different job classifications, the different levels that exist in each, and the upward or lateral movement options and rules are over the top compared to any job situation I've been in or seen.

Happy to hear that the new schedule may only be temporary.  That was my hunch.  I hope for your sake (and me if I'm fortunate enough to make it in) that the old one comes back.  For me personally, the "experimental" schedule was one of my motives for wanting the job. Thanks much for your input, Droshen.......

[Nuclear NASCAR]

Paulers:
....  I'm not sure what you mean by NLO or OPs positions- I'll research that.  A

NLO= Non-licensed operator
OPS= Operations department

What they're called varies by location but basically a NLO is the job you're hoping to be hired into.  The RO (Reactor Operator) operates the unit from the control room and the NLO is the RO's eyes & ears out in the plant.

[HydroDave63]

Paulers:

things must not be normal in HR now. 

  For me personally, the "experimental" schedule was one of my motives for wanting the job. Thanks much for your input, Droshen.......

And this should cause you some concern. Being a new hire with low seniority in an organization in disarray leaves one vulnerable. It isn't a leap of logic to see how going from 8s to 12s covers the same 24/7/365 schedule with fewer bodies, albeit the remaining bodies make more money. There was an Ops RIF about 2 years after the switch in the 90s. Your Mileage May Vary.

There are times where a bird in the hand really is worth 2 in the bush.

[Paulers]

For me personally, the "experimental" schedule was one of my motives for wanting the job.

That schedule is how HR recruiters used to sell the job.  On nights like tonight I think I should become a plumber or something.  The obstacle that new hires have is the GFES training and exam that you must pass before any other training.  However you will spend a good 8-9 months with a M-F dayshift schedule during GFES and Secondary Systems.  By the time you come on shift things could be worked out.

[Droshen]

Nuclear NASCAR:

Thanks.  OPS is combination of NLO's and RO's?

HydroDave:
The info I see at Working Aggreement Volume II  (http://www.uwua246.org/SONGS/index.asp) page 60, shows average work week consists of 41.4 hours/week actual hours worked.  I think the new schedule has about 42.5 hours/week (based on Pauler's outline in this thread).  It seems both schedules have about same average amount of time on the clock per week- just spread around differently.

Paulers:

Not sure I understand your post- ANPEO's do no "work" for a long time at first?  That's would be amazing to me and nice to see a company that invests so much in training its workers.

Thanks for info......

[Droshen]

Paulers:

I see also in earlier post by yeehaw mention of 8 month training (and a test after 10 weeks)- apparently, this time is spent entirely in training.  I didn't quite grasp what he was saying.  You guys have been there for a while- to an outsider like me this much training is a new concept.

HydroDave:

Bird in hand concept relevant- 40% of workforce where I am now is below me in seniority.  Other side of coin: SONGS would be a better job.

[Arkane]

I see also in earlier post by yeehaw mention of 8 month training (and a test after 10 weeks)- apparently, this time is spent entirely in training.  I didn't quite grasp what he was saying.

"7-8 months of classroom training" = 7-8 months of sitting in class Mon-Fri, 7-3:30pm, lecture after lecture, taking tests.  I know it sounds really abstract but don't get your head too wrapped up over it. You won't actually be "working" in the plant until you get past all the classroom stuff.  And even then you will still be a 'trainee' for another 5-6 months (OT not available to trainees).  This is called On-The-Job Training (OJT) and you will be on rotating shifts.  So it will take at least 1 year until you are a fully trained and responsible operator.  Hopefully by that time operations should be back on 12s! 

The hours worked per week on the new 8 hour schedule is exactly 41.25 hours (w/ no extra OT).  Which is slightly less "on the clock" hours than the old 12 hour schedule (avg 41.4 hrs/wk).  So both schedules have approx the same amount of "on the clock" hours but 100.1 hours of pay per year are lost due to the decreased amount of built-in overtime in the 8-hr schedule.

[HydroDave63]

HydroDave:
Other side of coin: SONGS would be a better job.

Get back to me after having to manually muck out Unit 2 screens and rakes, or some valve lineups on the BPS acidic wasteland And yes, the raccoons on the switchyard tour DO bite!

[Paulers]

Droshen,

Yes it seems like they would value you after training you for a year.  Don't count on it.  It is just part of the Nuke Circus.  Only Qualified Operators can operate a nuke plant, I think all plants have similar training.  It takes months before you can touch anything in the plant.


 

[guspi76]

MM E-6 getting out after 12yrs. EAOS in Feb 22, '09 and stationed in San Diego. Looking to get into SONGS but haven't heard from them after posting my resume. Been talking with Orion international and they've been telling me that they can get me an interview stating in November. They recomend starting interviews within 90 days of EAOS. Just thought I'd put myself out there to see if somebody had some info on how to get into SONGS. Thanks, Gus