Hanford

[Soul Merchant]

I stand corrected. Not counting WRPS 475 announced layoffs and proposed further reductions being considered by DOE of allegedly 600-1000 in December 2011 - January 2012 time frame, here are the oldest estimated site seniority dates of the trades facing actual layoff:

NCO- 2001
RCT/HPT- 2009

Most of the rest are start dates from 2008-2010, with some trades facing as much as 70% reduction in force.

And, the RCT trade is still a solid 100+ layoffs away from reaching the 2003 date stated above. What's that? Wait, oh WRPS is estimating 40 RCT layoffs as part of their 475, now at least 60+ RCTs away from 2003 start date... It was 204 away not counting as many as 105 contractors at one point. Even those that planned on changes at Hanford didn't realistically expect 309 RCTs to be unemployed at the end of fiscal 2011.

[105KW]

I stand corrected. Not counting WRPS 475 announced layoffs and proposed further reductions being considered by DOE of allegedly 600-1000 in December 2011 - January 2012 time frame, here are the oldest estimated site seniority dates of the trades facing actual layoff:

NCO- 2001
RCT/HPT- 2009

Most of the rest are start dates from 2008-2010, with some trades facing as much as 70% reduction in force.

And, the RCT trade is still a solid 100+ layoffs away from reaching the 2003 date stated above. What's that? Wait, oh WRPS is estimating 40 RCT layoffs as part of their 475, now at least 60+ RCTs away from 2003 start date... It was 204 away not counting as many as 105 contractors at one point. Even those that planned on changes at Hanford didn't realistically expect 309 RCTs to be unemployed at the end of fiscal 2011.

OK, granted I am not counting the Temp/Contract Techs.  The best Number we have as of today is 154 from CHPRC, 40 from WRPS, and 1 head count from MSA.  Currently we have 8 self selects that effect the bottom line number ( this may change by the end of the day ) giving us approx 187 from the 54A list. CH has been pulling folks off the layoff list pretty consistently these last weeks. I  would like to think WRPS is tweaking their numbers and we will see the original 40 come down.  My original best guess would been about 160..I was not counting the WRPS reduction due to congress not approving a budget..Should have expected that though.   Today is the deadline for the self selects over at WRPS to submit paperwork, so we should know something next week, but I really think we will see the number continue to evolve even after the Sept. 19 date.


105KW

[pringles can]

"Just to clarify here... NO RCT with a hire date before May of 2009 will be involuntarily laid off so far."


That is part of the problem, no?

[Rennhack]

"Just to clarify here... NO RCT with a hire date before May of 2009 will be involuntarily laid off so far."
That is part of the problem, no?

It's called seniority.  That's how unions work.

[pringles can]

"It's called seniority.  That's how unions work."


That is part of the problem, no?

[tagline]

I know that I will be hammered for saying this...but....The whole Hanford site could be run by about 100 techs. Like I said in my previous post, 5 techs to do a job 1 or 2 could do. Granted I am an Obama tech here but come on, there have been times that I would have nothing to do all day. There are some days that we would work all day but the vast majority of time it was 2 or 3 hours per day.  Come to think of it maybe 100 techs is a bit heavy for the whole site. Once again just my opinion. I do not want to see anyone loss their job, but lets be objective here. Can that be blamed on the union? Can this be blamed on management or the DOE? Rant over. Peace to all.

[105KW]

I know that I will be hammered for saying this...but....The whole Hanford site could be run by about 100 techs. Like I said in my previous post, 5 techs to do a job 1 or 2 could do. Granted I am an Obama tech here but come on, there have been times that I would have nothing to do all day. There are some days that we would work all day but the vast majority of time it was 2 or 3 hours per day.  Come to think of it maybe 100 techs is a bit heavy for the whole site. Once again just my opinion. I do not want to see anyone loss their job, but lets be objective here. Can that be blamed on the union? Can this be blamed on management or the DOE? Rant over. Peace to all.

Not going to get hammered here :-) Just like remind those who don't know that the techs here are not hired/fired by any union, job assignments are not done by any union, nor does the union have anything to do with the allocation of resources.  When the "system" works correctly RCT's are flying fast and furious from one job to another. RCT's available at the morning staff meeting are hard to come by..Like I said when the system works correctly.  RCT's at Hanford are a service organization..That is we respond with support for a given work package. Work Packages are generated up the line and  RCTs have very limited input, we wait until called upon to provide support. You really can't blame the RCT for that.   Honestly, I think alot of the blame goes to having way to many chiefs and not ENOUGH Indians. EVERY group wants and gets a say in the simplest evolution at Hanford including the DOE, DNSFB, multiple state agencies, multiple site contractors, independent work groups, WDOH, EPA,then you have the WAC codes and lets not forget the current buzz words of ISMS,VPP etc etc..And this is for the simplest of work packages.  In the contractors ( Management ) defense they are walking on egg shells.  None of the Managers wants to be the one to say " they can't get it done "..They only acceptable answer ( especially in times of excess ) is "yes sir, I'll do it " 

[Soul Merchant]

I will be the first to agree government is part of the problem, not part of the solution. So the question is, what do I get for my union dues and the answer is seniority. It would make more sense if you could buy your spot like politicans do. I learned something here today. Working in a union position is the best possible job you can have, as long as you like your dues going to politics, as long as you like the politicians being bribed, as long as you don't care how bad their ideas are for government, as long as you don't like being judged on your merits, as long as you like getting paid exactly the same as everyone else regardless of how much effort/skill/knowledge is put forth, as long as you don't like to be held accountable, as long as you don't like to show up to work on time, be in your assigned location, perform actual tasks, act responsibly, and as long as you keep your job regardless of any of the above because... because... you were first?!?!?! What, is this kindergarten and the snot nosed kids who can't tie their shoes and count from one to ten are the only ones who get cookies because they were first...?

Wow I used to think there were a few bitter people out there, and maybe some posters here just had a bad experience. Now I wonder, if all unions are like this how is it possible companies don't fold faster and create much more of a mess- well the government is an exception I guess because they can't possibly do it slower or for more money. I for one would not have been open to working at this government site for this union if I had known the mentality and that work may have been overstaffed by about 50%.

[tagline]

Not going to get hammered here :-) Just like remind those who don't know that the techs here are not hired/fired by any union, job assignments are not done by any union, nor does the union have anything to do with the allocation of resources.  When the "system" works correctly RCT's are flying fast and furious from one job to another. RCT's available at the morning staff meeting are hard to come by..Like I said when the system works correctly.  RCT's at Hanford are a service organization..That is we respond with support for a given work package. Work Packages are generated up the line and  RCTs have very limited input, we wait until called upon to provide support. You really can't blame the RCT for that.   Honestly, I think alot of the blame goes to having way to many chiefs and not ENOUGH Indians. EVERY group wants and gets a say in the simplest evolution at Hanford including the DOE, DNSFB, multiple state agencies, multiple site contractors, independent work groups, WDOH, EPA,then you have the WAC codes and lets not forget the current buzz words of ISMS,VPP etc etc..And this is for the simplest of work packages.  In the contractors ( Management ) defense they are walking on egg shells.  None of the Managers wants to be the one to say " they can't get it done "..They only acceptable answer ( especially in times of excess ) is "yes sir, I'll do it "  




Thats funny. We had a manager tell us that during a managers meeting the discussion was.."what are we going to do when the contractors leave, they get things done properly". I stayed and worked over one night with fellow contractors and the manager could not belive we finished the job. He tould us that if his house techs did the job it would take them a week.

[105KW]

Thats funny. We had a manager tell us that during a managers meeting the discussion was.."what are we going to do when the contractors leave, they get things done properly". I stayed and worked over one night with fellow contractors and the manager could not belive we finished the job. He tould us that if his house techs did the job it would take them a week.

[/quote]

  It's nice always to get a compliment  Oh course sometimes there might be another reason they had the contractors stay complete the work. 

Have great holiday weekend all !

105kw

[105KW]

I will be the first to agree government is part of the problem, not part of the solution. So the question is, what do I get for my union dues and the answer is seniority. It would make more sense if you could buy your spot like politicans do. I learned something here today. Working in a union position is the best possible job you can have, as long as you like your dues going to politics, as long as you like the politicians being bribed, as long as you don't care how bad their ideas are for government, as long as you don't like being judged on your merits, as long as you like getting paid exactly the same as everyone else regardless of how much effort/skill/knowledge is put forth, as long as you don't like to be held accountable, as long as you don't like to show up to work on time, be in your assigned location, perform actual tasks, act responsibly, and as long as you keep your job regardless of any of the above because... because... you were first?!?!?! What, is this kindergarten and the snot nosed kids who can't tie their shoes and count from one to ten are the only ones who get cookies because they were first...?

Wow I used to think there were a few bitter people out there, and maybe some posters here just had a bad experience. Now I wonder, if all unions are like this how is it possible companies don't fold faster and create much more of a mess- well the government is an exception I guess because they can't possibly do it slower or for more money. I for one would not have been open to working at this government site for this union if I had known the mentality and that work may have been overstaffed by about 50%.

Soul Merchant,

I'm not going to try and get in a debate about the virtues or corruption of "unions" . Not enough time or space  and this very subject has already beat to death. But for the ones reading this and don't know I will point out a couple things as it pertains to Hanford.

1.  The union does not hire you.
2. The union does not fire you.
3. The union does not write the procedures.
4.  The union does not make Job assignments
5.  The Contractor can fire ANYONE they choose for whatever reason they choose. The only thing a union member ( non member for that matter ) has is to    file a grievance.
6. Termination cases almost always take 12 to 16 months to get a answer back from arbitration ( your dues pay for that. Not just seniority )
7. To work on the Hanford site you DO NOT have to join the union.  Check out agency fee if you have a real aversion to "unions"

While I will not defend any particular element of the union here, I will give my impression of what the goal is..

1. Provide a safe working conditions for ALL the workers on site..Including you.
2. To provide a stable work force for the site. This where seniority and the work stabilization agreements come in.
3  To provide fair and equal treatment under the contracts that all the parties have agreed to.
4.  The "union" strives to provide a living benefit accrual after sometimes 40 years service to the government.
5. Provide a living wage and benefits for all the site workers. Remember what the bargaining unit gets the management gets ( if not better ) in terms of  benefits.

Seems you believe that Union is responsible for the company having to put up with people you feel who do not do their jobs.  I would ask how is that the unions fault ?  Only management can  reprimand, terminate or other wise punish a worker.   What has the Union done to specially that you feel so upset ? Is it your paying dues and not getting to stay ? Would you expect to stay after an outage at Comanche Peak ?  Where you wronged somehow on Overtime ?  It seems that most of these  rants are on the "union" in general, but I fell to see any specifics. I will be the first to agree there are a lot things that need fixing. The rants would be better served if we had some specifics. Believe it or not there  are some who would do their best to try and fix a wrong done to you.  After all we all are RCT/'HPT here, temps or not.


105kw

[roadhp]

105 KW:  Yes, the Union doesn't hire or fire you, but you are in the union and the company hires anyone, it has to be you if you are on the recall list.  The union doesn't write the procedures, but has input and most times will block a procedure unless it benefits the union.  The union doesn't make job assignments, but when a worker is a poor performer, the union will pretty much force the company to make concessions so that worker can sit and collect a paycheck, because like you said, it takes 12 - 16 months for someone to go through the arbitration process, during which the worker is collecting a paycheck, normally while sitting at home.  As far as agency fees, they are as much as the dues, and go to the same kitty paying for the same things, such as the union bosses large salaries and bene's, political payouts, etc.
    What I would have wanted from that union is to police its own.  No, the union cannot "reprimand, terminate or other wise punish a worker", but when a worker is not working or is causing trouble through neglect or malicious intent, then the union after quick investigation shouldn't back said worker, but should do the right thing and back the decision of the company.  Never saw it at Hanford.  Tell me if you have or if anyone has ever seen an action by the company against a worker that hasn't been fought vigorously by the union, except for the case where said worker had been put in jail for a violent crime.  As far as overtime was concerned, the subcontractors got overtime only after the prime contractors refused it, and then there was even a time when the overtime was offered to the RCT's of another company first.  That was another agreement between the union and the company which the union insisted and the company had to comply.
    The worst thing I have to say about the time we spent at Hanford was the infighting between the different groups at the tank farms.  East area and Projects were always at odds, with East area techs even taking the time to try and find things wrong with the Projects techs job coverage so they could write them up.  I'm not talking about noticing, because that is everyone's job, I'm talking about going out to a farm across site for no other purpose than to try and find something.
    For everyone we left there at projects who helped us and were our friends, we wish you the best, and if you have to come work commercial, come to Mississippi in the spring and visit. We would love to have you.

[105KW]

105 KW:  Yes, the Union doesn't hire or fire you, but you are in the union and the company hires anyone, it has to be you if you are on the recall list.  The union doesn't write the procedures, but has input and most times will block a procedure unless it benefits the union.  The union doesn't make job assignments, but when a worker is a poor performer, the union will pretty much force the company to make concessions so that worker can sit and collect a paycheck, because like you said, it takes 12 - 16 months for someone to go through the arbitration process, during which the worker is collecting a paycheck, normally while sitting at home.  As far as agency fees, they are as much as the dues, and go to the same kitty paying for the same things, such as the union bosses large salaries and bene's, political payouts, etc.
   What I would have wanted from that union is to police its own.  No, the union cannot "reprimand, terminate or other wise punish a worker", but when a worker is not working or is causing trouble through neglect or malicious intent, then the union after quick investigation shouldn't back said worker, but should do the right thing and back the decision of the company.  Never saw it at Hanford.  Tell me if you have or if anyone has ever seen an action by the company against a worker that hasn't been fought vigorously by the union, except for the case where said worker had been put in jail for a violent crime.  As far as overtime was concerned, the subcontractors got overtime only after the prime contractors refused it, and then there was even a time when the overtime was offered to the RCT's of another company first.  That was another agreement between the union and the company which the union insisted and the company had to comply.
   The worst thing I have to say about the time we spent at Hanford was the infighting between the different groups at the tank farms.  East area and Projects were always at odds, with East area techs even taking the time to try and find things wrong with the Projects techs job coverage so they could write them up.  I'm not talking about noticing, because that is everyone's job, I'm talking about going out to a farm across site for no other purpose than to try and find something.
   For everyone we left there at projects who helped us and were our friends, we wish you the best, and if you have to come work commercial, come to Mississippi in the spring and visit. We would love to have you.

I am not adressing the national or even the state level of the "Union". Please take my comments as they apply only to to our work here at Hanford. I say "union" because I'm not sure if we are talking about IBEW or HAMTC itself.  But in either case the statements still apply.

1.The  "union" at Hanford has No power to block any procedure. None. The worker ( union, non union, exempt )  can comment on a procedure, but the company has final say and almost never does the leadership ever see the thousands of procedures generated on site.

2. How does the "union" FORCE the company to anything ?  It is far easier for the company to fire a "poor "performer and wait 14 months for an arbitration than to tolerate the worker.  Remember the company pays nothing ( Zippo) for their cost of an arbitration. The company cost is picked up by DOE. The "union" on the other hand pays 50% of the arbitration.

3. When a worker is fired that is exactly what it is.  Nobody sits at home being paid. They either go out and find a job somewhere, They draw unemployment ( if approved by the state ), or they go unpaid. Period.

4. Agency fee's don't go into same Kitty. Agency fee payers are generally charged the same dues and initiation fees uniformly required of IBEW members. However, agency fee payers who object to supporting certain union activities may pay a reduced fee to ensure that none of their money is used to support those activities. In particular, objectors are charged only for activities or projects that are reasonably related to collective bargaining. Examples of such "chargeable" activities are negotiating collective bargaining agreements; meeting with employer representatives; meeting with employees on employment-related issues; participating in proceedings on behalf of workers under the grievance procedure, including arbitration; and managing internal union affairs.

Among activities considered "nonchargeable," which objectors are not required to support, are support of political candidates, general community service, legislative activities, certain costs of affiliation with non-IBEW organizations, and members-only benefits.



5.  The union At Hanford has No power to discipline ANYONE. So I fell to see the point of your comment about "policing your own". The "union" frequently withdraws grievances at the step 2 level if the evidence so dictates.  
 
Tell me if you have or if anyone has ever seen an action by the company against a worker that hasn't been fought vigorously by the union, except for the case where said worker had been put in jail for a violent crime

6. Answer to your above question.  First Please understand a Union steward is like a defense attorney and is required  by law to represent the member interest. So frequently the first response of the steward  is to file a grievance. This accomplishes a couple of things. 1. It starts the clock were the company has provide a reason for the discipline.  2. It allows the steward to investigate the reasoning for the company action.  Now if that is what you consider fighting vigorously for the member then the "union" has to plead guilty.  Many cases of discipline never even make to the first step, because they are resolved in the pre-grievance meeting.

As far as overtime was concerned, the subcontractors got overtime only after the prime contractors refused it, and then there was even a time when the overtime was offered to the RCT's of another company first.  That was another agreement between the union and the company which the union insisted and the company had to comply.


7. Overtime is offered to the house folks first. That is correct. It is part of the Contract and the MOU that you agreed to when you came to work at Hanford. I would be REAL interested in where Overtime was given to another company ? That would be contractual violation and I guarantee that would have been fought. Are you  saying work in tank farms was given to  CHPRC or MSA or ESHI ?   Please give me some specifics. You can PM I would appreciate it.

I did do some inquiring this morning regarding the overtime issue. It seems you might be refering to an issue in the project group of base ops.  I am told there was some dicussion whether contract techs would be offered overtime before the backup overtime group was offered the overtime. The union stance of offering overtime to the backup overtime group is supported by the contract language. It is important to note that no overtime was offered to another company, but was offered inside WRPS to the backup overtime group prior to offering to the contractors.  It would be almost impossible today to give overtime to another 'company" due to access restrictions of working in Tank Farms. Just wanted to let you know I did chase this down for you.


Hope this clears up some misconceptions...

While the working environment at Hanford is far from perfect, there are mechanisms that can make it better. It is up to us to try and use those mechanisms to ensure a safe, and reasonable working environment. And yes the "union" is one of those mechanisms

105KW

[105KW]

More good news Today..WRPS just pulled 13 more off the layoff list.  

105 KW

[Radiationman85]

More good news Today..WRPS just pulled 13 more pulled off the layoff list. 

105 KW

And they have 8 self selects to help out. So i guess the number is about 471.

[105KW]

I think that is close...I need to break it down by company..the list changes almost daily right now.

105KW

[105KW]

September 8, 2011
Late yesterday, the U.S. Senate Appropriations Committee took another step toward finalizing the FY-12 budget for tank farm operations when it sent a $467 million tank farms budget allocation to the full Senate for approval.  The tank farms budget number was part of an overall $25.5 billion allocated to the Department of Energy.
What does yesterday's Senate action mean in terms of our workforce restructuring currently under way?
1.)    The committee action is a positive sign that Congress ultimately may approve a tank farms budget higher than the $408 million approved earlier this year by the House.  But, the $467 million budget number is still significantly below the President's FY-12 tank farms budget request of $521 million, and a reduction in the WRPS workforce is still necessary in late September and early October.
2.)    Some steps remain before a final budget number is known.  The Senate and House must resolve the difference between their respective tank farm allocations.  Final House and Senate approval is then necessary before it goes to the President for signature.
3.)    With these steps to go and just weeks remaining before the new fiscal year begins on Oct. 1, we may still be required to begin the year under a Continuing Resolution and at funding levels based on tank farms' FY-11 base budget of $397 million.  Yesterday's Senate action does offer hope for some additional funding later in the fiscal year, if a final FY-12 budget is approved.
4.)    As the budget process continues to evolve, we will work with DOE to adjust, and I hope reduce, impacts to staffing and scope.
As to the status of our workforce restructuring process, those employees approved for the voluntary self-select option will be notified by tomorrow, September 9, and we will communicate the number of "self-selects" early next week.
Thank you for your continued focus on safety during this unsettling time.  


Chuck

WRPS  had 8 self selects with 7 above the layoff line

105kw

[Radiationman85]

SO the excess letter from WRPS this morning shows 33 to be excessed.... where does that leave us? and does that account for the 8 self selects before, after or inside that 33 number.

[105KW]

 The number is the same.  33 is the gross.  It's 33-8 with 7 above the layoff line..same as last week.  The letter just didn't clarify it very well.


105Kw

[Terranear]

105KW   what's your estimation for seniority number on the layoff?  still around 471?

[105KW]

105KW   what's your estimation for seniority number on the layoff?  still around 471?

Close--You have PM. I tried to  explain my best guess. Most here probaly don't care, so I took it PM.

105KW

[Radiationman85]

I'm still hearing 472. Any news?

Some more questions:

Let's say number 480 today with the -8 from wrps will that make him 472 on the final day making him able to stay.
Or is that -8 already figured in and he will be the 8th called back?

And what about severance pay to involuntary? Do we have to pay that back if we are called back?

[pringles can]

Either way, this layoff has been the biggest cluster I have ever seen.  Who ever is incharge should be held accountable for this.

[105KW]

I'm still hearing 472. Any news?

Some more questions:

Let's say number 480 today with the -8 from wrps will that make him 472 on the final day making him able to stay.
Or is that -8 already figured in and he will be the 8th called back?

And what about severance pay to involuntary? Do we have to pay that back if we are called back?

 Good day,
The count at this moment is about at the 471 mark give or take 3.  call back will be in reverse order of layoff..meaning the highest senior will be called back first.
Severance pay might have to be repaid if called back within 6 months.  Ask see to article 22 section 4 (d) of the CBA. Remember call backs goes by seniority across site, so If you get laid off at CHPRC and the opening is at ESHI and your next up the offer is for that spot.  Never give up hope. The word is both CH and WRPS were working late last night still tweaking numbers. Don't know  if it will change the RCT numbers  or not. keep your fingers crossed 



Have a great rest of the week.

105KW

[snowman]

Either way, this layoff has been the biggest cluster I have ever seen.  Who ever is incharge should be held accountable for this.

And just how many layoffs involving over 3,000 people with 500-700 additional workers being transferred to new departments have you seen, Kris Pringle? What would you have management do next time... just give folks the old today notice instead of the 3-4 months they gave workers to prepare for the workforce reductions?