What more can he do at "A" School

[navytwinmom]

Wow am I glad I found this site. Hoping someone out there can give us some advice. I have twin sons both at NNPTC right now. One is an EM and he is doing pretty good....he is a sub vol and as he puts it "fast attach tough". He has a 3.4 GPA.

The other is an ET and struggling just a bit. Both are smart kids good in school but the ET has always had to work just a little harder to get the same grades as his brother. The problem now is he fail the first digital test with a 2.34. His overall GPA is 2.8 but if I understand correctly he has to pass each section with a 2.5 or better and pass the whole school with 2.5 and get 2.5 on the comp. He is on 25-4 and in "breakfast club" studying before school and does 2 IA per day. I know he is giving it 110% he always does. Other than studding 24 hours a day what more can he do. Is there tutoring or study groups that he can partipate in. He does not seem to think so. The Navy is his dream and Nuke is in his blood. I know he would be crushed if he ended up in the Fleet undesignated. Any suggestions you can provide would be great, Thanks

[navytwinmom]

Thanks for the information. I will pass it along. As far as the husband thing goes....not!! Ran off 2 days after the pregnacy test came back positive....have not see hide nor hair in 17 years. Raised the boys by myself and with the help of a few good friends.

[Bighouz107501]

I currently just finished A school...comp'd on monday.....and I can tell you that both your kids will be fine...trust me a 2.8 is really by far all you need...if he does just decent on his test from here on out...then he will pass easily. The instructors there will do anything they can to help him...there is no worries...if he tries like you said then there is not a way in the world he can fail. The test and course can be very demanding for many people...I know personally I had a tough time relating my thoughts to paper....so I bought a dry erase board and kept rewriting my thought until the main points were clear....

Well you seem like a very concerned mother...much like how mine is, sometimes I felt best if she didnt know how school was going and asked her to not ask me about my grades and exam....it adds to the stress.

Good luck to your kids...also do you know what class numbers they are in?

hope I was of some help to you,
Dennis

[HydroDave63]

I learned something from a Dropped Navy Nuke one day though.  I must share this with you to pass along.  I was at chow.  A classmate that had failed out was across from me.  I had my head hung low.  It was this time frame I was discussing.  Week 13 ish.  The mid point.  He asked how I was doing.  I said fine if I could learn but I was having a hard time learning 100% of the material 100%.  He laughed at me.  I asked what was so funny.  He told me that was impossible.  You'd be lucky to learn 60% of the material 100%.  A light bulb went off in my head.  I was studing for material that was never going to be on the test.  Wasted time and effort.  I then remembered the items that was asked and then developed a plan to put emphasis on that material.  And learn the rest of course.  But, really learn the material I knew would be on the test.

Jason brings up a good (yet lengthy) point   I too was one of those students that scraped the guardrails in every class and part of the Nuclear program. Barely one step ahead of the Ac-boards. What helped me toward the end of both NPS and Prototype, when trying to rote memorizing everything (and failing at it) is to "study" no more than about an hour, walk around for a bit (not distracted by smoke breaks & chit chat, I mean a solitary walk to get blood flowing and NOT thinking about it, sometimes ideas and concepts gel better) and also, when I was studying, to keep asking myself "what does this formula/system/gizmo do? what is it good for?" An example being when high school kids say "why do I need 2nd year algebra, I'll never use it" yet when they are 30 they still don't understand why paying minimums won't pay down their credit cards. It is all good and useful knowledge, just have to get that grasp of 'what it means to ME'.

Hope this helps!

[navytwinmom]

Thank you all for your input it is helping me feel better about the whole thing. The boys in are class 0652. They should graduate March 9. The point is well taken about me asking about grades and causing more stress. I did not even think of that. My boys and I are pretty close and I have always been the one to encourge them in everthing so I guess I thought I was just helping but you are right he might be feeling more pressure thinking that he is disoipointing me, which he could never do. I am so proud of my boys and all the sailors out there protecing us....my eyes well up everytime I think about all the men and women of the military out there far from home doing a the work that needs to be done to keep us safe.

[DJM75]

I don't know if your sons are competitive or not but the ET school is the hardest of the three Nuke rates.  So he is going to have to work that much more than his brother but that could be good motivation if he's always that one step behind his brother.

[navytwinmom]

Just so you all know (if you even care) my ET got a 2.59 on his digial 2 test and has a 2.78 overall. he did not pass digital (2.47 overall) but since this is the first course not passed he says he does not have to go to a board. thank you all for your advice and suggestions. he is now using a white board and said it helped. thanks all

[shayne]

I think he will do fine if he continues to work hard and get the help he needs from his instructors and section advisors.  I remember my best students at prototype were the who struggled to pass but worked hard and asked for help.  I'm sure they did just fine out in the fleet.

[Nuke ET]

Tell him to get a white board and a nice fine tip marker.  Write every note 4.0 over and over, get a nice white board eraser too, he'll need it.  He should be in the NDI's office everynight for the maximum 3 hours getting pure run time.  Run time helps especially in I&CE.  He should go early in the morning around 5:30am so he has less study hours to do after school so he can hit the sack after a hard day of studying.  Sleep is VERY important. hope this helps, it helped me!

[navytwinmom]

First welcome to the site. Thanks for your service. And good luck in power school.

Done and Done....he got a white board a few weeks ago and he is doing breakfast club in the morning and IA every day now. I will keep you all updated.

[Fermi2]

Sorry this is late. I've been a bit ill and I'm trying to get my Senior Reactor License at my facility.


1: Thank you and thank you to your sons for their service. I admire you for raising two boys under what must have been trying circumstances at best.

2: Keep on him, the rewards of making it as a nuke MORE than pay for any extra hours one had to put in. How we act when most challenged is what helps define us.

3: I never had problems in either A or nuke school or any other nuke training. At nuke school I think I logged about 40 extra hours total. However things I've seen work: Get a buddy who understands concepts and have him explain it to you. This works because sometimes fellow students have good physical examples. Here's a story, I've always been good at Reactor Theory, in fact in 20 some years as a nuke I've never missed a Reactor Theory question. When I was getting my Reactor Operator License at my old utility this instructor came in and explained Doppler and Resonance Capture concepts I understand quite well. He provided an explanation that I use until this day.  I'm a mechanic by my Navy Training yet I understand Electrical theory very well because in my mind I reduce generators and motors to groups of Rubber Bands and how they react when under tension. I've used this explanation and in fact had an Electrical Engineer tell me once had she heard how I explain Motor and Generator theory when she was in College I would have saved her 2 years of confusion and at least two courses My point is sometimes sometimes SOMEONE has a piece of info that will REALLY help your son, and I'd place money on it being a peer. He might also find they're just dying to help. Out of the hours I spent in "study" in Nuke school most were spent tutoring. He needs to make sure he gets someone he trusts though.

4: I've seen this but cannot guarantee it'll happen. Lots of times there will be a point in Nuke school where the trainee has picked up enough knowledge that he/she isn't aware that they've even absorbed, then it just CLICKS. It happened to a guy named Werle in my nuke school class. We called him Whirly Bird because of his last name and at times he was rather a space case.  I think he carried about a 2.7 or so and was borderline on many of the courses. About the time we got taught everything it just clicked for him. The totally smoked the comps I think his lowest was a 3.9.  So there is hope. I've seen guys in the commercial world be the same way, they're about average until all of a sudden they see how it all integrates.

5: Tell him remember this, 2.5 gets you into prototype as a nuke and from there he should do fine. Again another guy in my nuke school class. The Anchorman ie the person who all who are after him failed. IIRC the school even gives an award for it. Ours was Robbie Schneider. He got a 2.5 even, I dount he ever got higher than a 3.0 on any test but I bet if you ask anyone in 8502 MM "F" They'll say they respected and admired Robbie more than ANYONE on the class. I believe Robbie averaged something like 65 hours study and after the Section Leader realized how  dedicated Robbie was he took him off Mando. They in fact finally had to order him to slow down a bit (This was when Robbie was putting in over 70 hours extra). One thing I remember about Robbie, he'd use every resource, instructors, other students or go to the Officer side of the school. If he heard an instructor explained a concept well Robbie would find him or her regardless of whether that person taught my section or not. He'd recopy his notes because he felt in doing so it would burn into his memory.  He white boarded, reread the texts, asked for extra problems. When we got our scores the guy openly cried because he was so happy he passed. My understanding is when he got to prototype he tore it up and qualified in some ungodly fast time. A guy I know said Robbie did well in the fleet.

So there is hope for your son. A LOT of good advice was given here by a lot of good people who survived and thrived in the program. My best advice, when he finds something that works he should just stick with it and not try to find something that works "better" What matters is does it work for him.

Mike

[navytwinmom]

Thanks for the feedback. I will pass it along to him. He seems to be feeling better about the whole thing. Trying to get him to relax is a chore sometimes. Plus all the study time tuckers him out but he knows it is the best thing for him.

Glad you are feeling better and good luck on your Senior Reactor License!!

Karma for all that have replyed....

[navytwinmom]

Just got the call....my ET passed his second ICE test with a 2.63!!!

He is feeling more confident and wanted me to pass on to all of you his thanks for all the advice. He said he is now the "white board master" guess all the guys in class have one now.

They are cutting back his study hours form 25-4's to 20-3's and now he has some time to do watch quals. He still has to meet with his chief after class each day but he say it is helping.

I will keep you all posted. March 9th grad date can not come fast enough 

PS the EM is doing well also....little s*** is on 10-2's and passing with a 3.4 somthing...says now that the seaman are not draging the firemen down the moral in class is high. nothing like a little friendly prodding at each other.

Karma to all 

[MM1 subnuke]

although I haven't spoken at all on this thread before, just wanted to let you in on a little secret.  No one cares what his gpa is once he graduates.  Once your a nuke, your a nuke.  Whether you barely made it, or you graduated with honors.  I was in the class with the guy who set the school record of 3.95 graduation of power school.  I had a 3.4 in a school and in power school.  I was # 2 in my entire class of 354 at charleston on the 635 to graduate. In other words, I finished all my quals the second fastest in my class.  I was done on week 16.  I had 10 weeks left to just do work around the plant.  Tell him to keep pushing forward and once its all through, the grades don't matter.

[navytwinmom]

Thank MM1 it is appricated. He atittude is much better. He and I thank everyone that have posted. I has easy my mind and his

I think his 2 biggest problems were...homesickness and that he was worried we would be dispointed in him if he did not finish. Now that he knows we are behind him 100% no matter what and that the home sickness is just part of being away for home he is able to put in more effort.

[Fermi2]

although I haven't spoken at all on this thread before, just wanted to let you in on a little secret.  No one cares what his gpa is once he graduates.  Once your a nuke, your a nuke.  Whether you barely made it, or you graduated with honors.  I was in the class with the guy who set the school record of 3.95 graduation of power school.  I had a 3.4 in a school and in power school.  I was # 2 in my entire class of 354 at charleston on the 635 to graduate. In other words, I finished all my quals the second fastest in my class.  I was done on week 16.  I had 10 weeks left to just do work around the plant.  Tell him to keep pushing forward and once its all through, the grades don't matter.

However given he still has to get to that point in his career your point is moot. Before he gets to step 100 he still has to finish step 1.

Not saying he won't, he seems to have accepted input from people who have succeeded and is taking measures to improve his performance. I think that's far more indicative of his future success than any grades. Still this thread is about how he can get past the baby steps, not how meaningless those steps are at a future date.

As I said many times the whole Navy thing is a very tiny and weak step into the real big leagues.


Mike

[navytwinmom]

Before he gets to step 100 he still has to finish step 1

Amen brother!!

When it is your kid that first step is always the hardest no matter how old they are.

[Sirveri]

I just came out of the pipeline 3 months ago. From what I hear it has changed a LOT. The system used to have filters, but the flow rate was too low, so they pulled most of them out. At this point you will pass the program if you satisfy three basic things.
1) You aren't completly retarded (ASVAB and pretest helps here)
2) You put in effort
3) You 'want' to complete the program.

as for 2) The effort you put in is proportional to how quickly you learn the material. I didn't require effort to pass powerschool with a 3.61 and could easily have spent less than 10 hours per week (after classes) there if I wasn't helping to tutor other students. The person I helped did better than some of the people I came to my boat with, which is pretty good considering he was a high school drop out with a GED and jail time under his belt (there are waivers for everything, even having too many waivers). If he needs help with the material then finding someone who gets it and can explain it definately helps.
3) In prototype we had a student who didn't want to complete the program, didn't want to be a nuke anymore, didn't want to be in the navy. The hours crushed him and his wife was preggo (nuke on nuke love should be banned). End result, he didn't go anywhere on quals, and was booted out of the program and is now a conventional nuke waste on a carrier (even though I know he was sub vol). He was one of two mechanics to be removed from the entire class of 230+ for academics in prototype. The other couldn't handle the stress and burned out, but otherwise was a good kid who wanted to go through.

Of the pipeline, I thought A school had the WORST classes, it's basically rote memorization with very little 'logic' behind it, at least for mechanics. Memorizing that a drill bit is called a twist bit or the definition for galling is somewhat pointless in my book. (If you find a mechanic who doesn't know the definition of galling I would be surprised). Power School is much more conceptual and is less strict on word for word verbatim memorization. If you understand the concept you generally do fine, or at least that's the theory I operated under while tutoring. Which worked since I got three students who were expected to fail chem 2 to pass while numerous ones who were thought to not be at risk failed. Prototype... I can't say anything nice about that place, but there were a staggering number of students augering for med discharges there if that gives you a hint as to how bad that 'place' is.

Point being, it's a pump, they'll probably get pushed through even if they don't want to go.

[Roll Tide]

Of the pipeline, I thought A school had the WORST classes, it's basically rote memorization with very little 'logic' behind it, at least for mechanics. Memorizing that a drill bit is called a twist bit or the definition for galling is somewhat pointless in my book. (If you find a mechanic who doesn't know the definition of galling I would be surprised). Power School is much more conceptual and is less strict on word for word verbatim memorization.

I must object here. The degree of professionalism accorded to an individual knowing and using the appropriate terms for components and faults is very high. Having worked with many non-nukes in the Navy, I can assure you the respect accorded to a FN who says, "The thingy won't move" is low.

All professions have a language, and the Navy Nukes learn both the OPS and Maintenance vocabularies. When everyone knows the language, it shortens the discussions. Vocabulary is a very important part of training. Even though it may seem trivial at the time. 

[hamsamich]

maybe it has changed, but at different points in the nuclear navy's history, the different parts of the pipeline's commands have had pressures put upon them to remove or replace filters as the needs of the navy changed.  this MAY be nothing new, and it may not last.  things like recruitment level, billets needed, billet changes, EAOS of ratings on horizon, new commands/programs/commisionings, decommisionings on the horizon, political views have made them change in the past.  I think this is especially true at Prototype, since this is the last phase, but not totally sure.

[Cycoticpenguin]

"formation and shearing o....." 


Anyway, tell your son to focus on his academics. From my understanding, NNPTC is a lot different now then some of the "more refined" (that means old  ) gentlemen here have gone through.

Thier advice is very sound, I just want to reassure you that your sons even BEING there means they have MORE then enough to pass the school. Id talk to your son about his focus level and desire to succeed. He can make it!

[navytwinmom]

my ET passed his final ICE test with a 3.01...passed the class too...

EM has final tomarrow but that is a nobrainer for him.....

Comp for both on monday......keep your fingers crossed.

Goose Creek here I come!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cycoticpenguin]

Your sons get to go through prevent now!
If they can suffer through that, they are ready to take over the world...

Did you old timers have to do prevent after a school??

[navytwinmom]

I am such a dork or is that dink......

anywho I totally forgot to thank everyone.....Roll Tide...HydroDave...BZ and all that others that posted. A special thanks to honeycomb 

You all have help my sons and I...keeping us all motivated and at times cool headed. You all are great people for doing what you do....and do so well.


Who says I am flying.....It is all I can do to keep from getting in the car right now....I should get there by the time they finsih COMP on Monday!!

What to give the whole class a big hug....

I will keep you all posted on power school progress and will turn to you if help is needed.

Take care all......(insert appropriate navy themed saying here!!)

[Fermi2]

Tell your boys Well Done

And BZ gives a big BZ!!!!

Mike