NY Prototype Staff Pickup Instructor

[NukeLDO]

I wasn't a civilian there; I was the Senior Evaluation Officer with the PPEA and a served submarine Engineer.  Believe me, for many of the civilians it wasn't a question of growing a set.  Many, many times they did not have the latitude to make their own decisions or adopt recommendations from the deck plate.  I'm not making excuses, there's a lot more many of them could have done to improve standards and culture. Adopting more Navy practices would have been a great start. 

Agree.  Look around and see who is standing SSW.  Its not Navy.  You can give a college graduate, qualified EOOW, 2 year NPE all the training in the world, and he still won't stand SSW like a fleet served LT.

[JustinHEMI05]

Well that certainly explains a lot.

Justin

[HydroDave63]

Agree.  Look around and see who is standing SSW.  Its not Navy.  You can give a college graduate, qualified EOOW, 2 year NPE all the training in the world, and he still won't stand SSW like a fleet served LT.

I blame the parents....If the Navy changed the contract specs to where the civilians were required to have operated reactors at sea active duty, one might see a 'sea state change' in the academic rigor. Then again, we've discussed here the lack of rigor from A-school to the fleet, so who knows?

[War Eagle]

I blame the parents....If the Navy changed the contract specs to where the civilians were required to have operated reactors at sea active duty, one might see a 'sea state change' in the academic rigor. Then again, we've discussed here the lack of rigor from A-school to the fleet, so who knows?

I recommended that a few times while I was there.  Maybe not an entire sea tour, but long enough to qualify EOOW.

[JustinHEMI05]

I recommended that a few times while I was there.  Maybe not an entire sea tour, but long enough to qualify EOOW.

+1 but no one listened to me anyway, except for when they needed someone to stand that 100th EDO watch. 

[number41]

We'll see.  It sounds like Obama is planningon cutting ino a lot of wasteful military contracts.  He actually mentioned Lockheed Martin by name, so it may turn-out that the military starts running alot more there than they do now.  Which would probably be better for everyone.  The next best thing they could do would be get rid of the Unions, but I doubt that will happen.

[Preciousblue1965]

We'll see.  It sounds like Obama is planningon cutting ino a lot of wasteful military contracts.  He actually mentioned Lockheed Martin by name, so it may turn-out that the military starts running alot more there than they do now.  Which would probably be better for everyone.  The next best thing they could do would be get rid of the Unions, but I doubt that will happen.

Well you can forget the whole union thing ever going away under the Obama watch.  Unions esure that imcompetents hard workers get to keep their job even if they are a net drain on their employer.  Not to mention that bums union workers are only allowed to do exactly their job title and nothing more. 

I apologize to those union workers who are actually competent and hard working.  I got a really bad taste for some unions during numerous shipyard availabilities and the utter cluster@#$@ that was associated with it.  The fact that it takes 22 union workers to do what it would take 3 navy guys to do is completely stupid and wasts money.

[NukeLDO]

We'll see.  It sounds like Obama is planningon cutting ino a lot of wasteful military contracts.  He actually mentioned Lockheed Martin by name, so it may turn-out that the military starts running alot more there than they do now.  Which would probably be better for everyone.  The next best thing they could do would be get rid of the Unions, but I doubt that will happen.

Things were changing prior to the election....Bettis is now the sole prime contractor, and KAPL employees are being absorbed into the new organization with a new name.  Don't know if that's the way the Navy wanted it, or if Lockheed wanted out of the prime contractor business.
Let me guess PB, you spent some time at a private SY in VA?

I blame the parents....If the Navy changed the contract specs to where the civilians were required to have operated reactors at sea active duty, one might see a 'sea state change' in the academic rigor. Then again, we've discussed here the lack of rigor from A-school to the fleet, so who knows?

While sea time is good, it'd also be very costly...wanna guess how much a SY rider on sea trials makes?  And, just my opinion, the problem isn't academic rigor, its standards.  The Navy has to instill those standards in the contractor personnel because they've never heard of the SORM or EDM, the IC Manual, etc.  Once qualified and put in a position of authority within the crew structure, they need to fly under the wing of a Navy sea returnee for while.  Stand SSW with the sea returnee LTs and STG-O.  Learn the lingo and absorb the standards, learn what to look for, how to conduct a surveillance and grade an evolution, etc.

[Preciousblue1965]

NukeLDO,
I didn't spend any time in a SY in VA but I did have numerous interactions with a SY from the left coast up in a certain wet corner of the US.

I think the epitome of inefficiency of that particular organization was that we had to rebuild a particularly large valve that took suction from the bilge.  This valve was partially above and below the deckplate level.  It took 3 yard guys to write the tagout, 2 guys to remove the deckplates that were in the way, 2 guys to take off the bolts, 4 guys to rig the valve out, 3 more guys to rebuild the valve, 4 guys to rig the valve back down, 3 guys to install the valve, 2 guys to reinstall the deckplates, 1 guy to paint the deckplate stantions, 1 guy to clear the tags, and 2 guys to test the valve, and 1 guy to finish off the paperwork.

However, somewhere after the SY guys put the valve in and the guys who were supposed to reinstall the deckplates, the guy who was supposed to paint the stantions gets there.  Instead of saying "hey this isn't put back together yet, maybe I shouldn't paint it and let someone know that there is still something to be done" he instead puts on two thick coats of the two part bilge red paint, you know that really good hard stuff.  It wasn't until we did a post work inspection that we found the problem.  We asked the supervisor why his guys painted over something that clearly wasn't ready yet or why he didn't put the things back together(it was simply two bolts to put two pieces of metal together), he told us "He just does what he is told to do when he is told to do it.  He isn't allowed to put bolts together, he is just a painter.  The fastener guys are the ones who deal with bolts."

Same job, non-unionized work.  3-6 people total from start to finish, half the time. Most of the SY workers will tell you how they are scamming the system.  They will slack off until their job becomes "critical path" which then makes their pay "time and a half".  I have seen SY workers sleeping on the job.  And none of these guys will ever get fired because they are unionized. 

So that is why I have problems with unions.

[Nuclear NASCAR]

And the Union discussion is for the Gold Member section of the site.  Please keep this in mind and Thanks in advance.

[Preciousblue1965]

And the Union discussion is for the Gold Member section of the site.  Please keep this in mind and Thanks in advance.

Sorry I overshot the governor setting and fired off a salvo before I hit the overspeed trip.

[Nuclear NASCAR]

Normal for a Nuke.  How else do we know the edge unless we take a step over it?   

[kp88]

So that is why I have problems with unions.

Understood, but...
Using the shipyard's mandated place keeping instructions, the procedure was probably followed to the letter.  If a Union suggested this sort of thing, the Company would laugh it out of town

[number41]

because they've never heard of the SORM or EDM, the IC Manual, etc.

That hit the nail on the head as far as prototype is concerned.  It always annoyed me that the Navy has processes in place to govern a lot of things that get totally f'd up at prototype.  And guess where they're governed?  In the SORM, EDM, EDOM, etc.  But KAPL (and NAVSEA 08 especially) tended to use prototype as their own "prototype" for testing new ways of doing business.  The end result always ended up being a bunch of staff guys being forced to do business under a set of rules that was unfamiliar and ineffective, when they knew a completely acceptable set of rules that worked just fine.

[NukeLDO]

^^^^Ding Ding Ding! 

[Wirebiter]

^^^^Ding Ding Ding! 

We have a winner!?!?


ohhh-ohhh, pick door number three!

[deltarho]

Normal for a Nuke.  How else do we know the edge unless we take a step over it?  

My experience showed nukes always knew where "the line" was and normally raced to put all ten toes to the edges. This is what is commonly known as toeing the line.  Then they kinda squatted as they brought both arms high into the air behind them. Suddenly, arms swung forward at the same time both legs were straightened==>just to see how far the broad jump would have them land. They usually stuck the landing and waited in place for the "applause." This was commonly known as "act and ask for forgiveness later."

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