NLO ---> SRO?

[cheme09]

I have done plenty of research on going into Ops after grad school (both working up from NLO and starting in Engineering and trying to get a Instant SRO spot), and as graduation nears, I have been looking a lot closer at job postings.

There is one thing that just came to my mind that I never thought of yet.  Is it possible to start as an NLO and instead of going into a RO licensing class, get picked up in an Instant SRO class?

I mean, I understand that ex-navy nukes have reactor operations experience which qualifies them to sit in an Instant SRO class.  But engineers who get picked up for Instant class don't have any operations experience - they just have experience on site, which an NLO would also have.  So would that make the NLO eligible to sit in an Instant SRO class?

[Higgs]

Yes, per ACAD 10-001 figure 2-3 for degreed personnel, you'll need 18 months as a qualified NLO and then you would be eligible for instant SRO.

Justin

[cheme09]

Thanks.  I've seen ACAD 10-001 thrown around and even quoted here and there but never found the actual document with the figures.  After a more thorough google search on my part, I now have the document.

Part two of original question:  Have any of you seen this situation?  Would a utility generally not want to jump an NLO ahead of his/her year group in favor of having the candidate rise through the ranks  (NLO-->RO-->SRO)?

[Higgs]

Here it is again, I put it on google docs.

http://tinyurl.com/acad10-001

Also, I've never witnessed it..., not so much because the utility doesn't want to do it, but because NLOs usually don't want to do it. There are a bunch of degreed NLOs in my current class and when polled, they collectively said "eff that." 

Justin

[Starkist]

Entergy pulls instant SRO's from engineering. my buddy is in class now and kicking butt. Dont sell yourself short. do what you want to do. You will get paid more as an engineer as well.

[Higgs]

No he won't, at least not with First energy or Exelon.

Justin

[Starkist]

No he won't, at least not with First energy or Exelon.

Justin

Except for outage years, bottom level engineers make about 10k a year + bonus MORE then top paid NLO's for entergy plants. Dude went through his SECOND time in fundamentals with us, been there for a year, salaried at around 70k and gets a nicer bonus AND got an outage bonus that NLO's didnt get.

You and I both know each plant is different though, which makes it all the more reason for him to check his options before hard nosing in one direction.

Shame we dont hire STA's any more, that sounds like a perfect job for him.

[thenuttyneutron]

I have done plenty of research on going into Ops after grad school (both working up from NLO and starting in Engineering and trying to get a Instant SRO spot), and as graduation nears, I have been looking a lot closer at job postings.

There is one thing that just came to my mind that I never thought of yet.  Is it possible to start as an NLO and instead of going into a RO licensing class, get picked up in an Instant SRO class?

I mean, I understand that ex-navy nukes have reactor operations experience which qualifies them to sit in an Instant SRO class.  But engineers who get picked up for Instant class don't have any operations experience - they just have experience on site, which an NLO would also have.  So would that make the NLO eligible to sit in an Instant SRO class?

My shift manager was a NLO that went the DSRO route.  I also went to class with 2 fellow NLOs that also went DSRO.  All three were successful.

You will get paid more as an engineer as well.

I highly doubt that he will make more as a starting engineer vs NLO.  A NLO is about the highest paying position that you can take when you have no experience and you add up the OT.  The NLO will however have to work the rotating shift work.

[Starkist]

My shift manager was a NLO that went the DSRO route.  I also went to class with 2 fellow NLOs that also went DSRO.  All three were successful.

I highly doubt that he will make more as a starting engineer vs NLO.  A NLO is about the highest paying position that you can take when you have no experience and you add up the OT.  The NLO will however have to work the rotating shift work.

Yeah, I felt I needed more clarification. During NON outage years (riverbend got higher enriched fuel, so its now a 24 month cycle instead of 18), engineers make more then NLO's down here in region 4.  Entergy is nixxing over time as much as possible as well (they went to a six section rotation on their region 4 plants), so that plays a factor too. But, as I said, the engineers got a fat bonus, and the NLO's didnt see a dime for the outage.  SRO's stay fat of course :p

Keep in mind this guy is working on grad school, and wont be hired in at "base rate" as well. He most certainly SHOULD make more then an NLO as an engineer.


edit: theres something to be said about working mon-thurs isntead of rotating shift

edit 2: I also dont think I was clear enough. My point was, he shouldnt turn down engineering (entergy is HURTING for engineers)  to "hold out" on NLO just to get SRO, when its entirely feasible to go engineering to SRO.

[thenuttyneutron]

Yeah, I felt I needed more clarification. During NON outage years (riverbend got higher enriched fuel, so its now a 24 month cycle instead of 18), engineers make more then NLO's down here in region 4.  Entergy is nixxing over time as much as possible as well (they went to a six section rotation on their region 4 plants), so that plays a factor too. But, as I said, the engineers got a fat bonus, and the NLO's didnt see a dime for the outage.  SRO's stay fat of course :p

Keep in mind this guy is working on grad school, and wont be hired in at "base rate" as well. He most certainly SHOULD make more then an NLO as an engineer.


edit: theres something to be said about working mon-thurs isntead of rotating shift

edit 2: I also dont think I was clear enough. My point was, he shouldnt turn down engineering (entergy is HURTING for engineers)  to "hold out" on NLO just to get SRO, when its entirely feasible to go engineering to SRO.

NLOs are often hired in big classes.  You could be competing for one of many slots as a NLO vs 1 opening as an engineer.  I also know that a masters degree does not always mean a lot more money.

I can tell you my experience with the OT this year is that I have been fatigued out for almost the entire summer.  I have actually had to work OT and take my regular shifts off with pay because I would violate the fatigue rules if I worked my normal hours.

[Starkist]

NLOs are often hired in big classes.  You could be competing for one of many slots as a NLO vs 1 opening as an engineer.  I also know that a masters degree does not always mean a lot more money.

Im sure that may be the case at your plant, but at riverbend and waterford, engineers make more money then NLO's, Im NOT guessing or speculating. Its case by case for sure. Again, Im just trying to get the OP to have a look at everything before getting sold on one thing or another.

NLO's here start a 31.05 an hour at riverbend with very little overtime. Engineer 3's (bottom level engineer)  start at 68k + bonus. Do the math.

[cheme09]

Great discussion guys!  Thanks everyone for all the info; I have found this forum to be extremely helpful.

There's definitely a lot for me to evaluate about what I want.  It's good to know that starting as an NLO doesn't pigeon hole you into going the traditional route.  I think the highest priority for me is to minimize the amount of time between graduation and starting a job.  Location is a close second.

I've established my long term goals (which include an getting an SRO license) so I guess it really doesn't matter where I start out - either way I'll be working towards the same thing.  It seems the best thing for me right now is to submit applications to all positions, engineering and ops, that fit my geographic preferences.  Ideally I'd like to not move after graduation and hope that my utility offers me a job at the end of my internship, but I definitely need to have at least one contingency plan.

My take on salary is that as a single guy newly entering the working world, making 62k-65k is just fine.  Beats all those other entry level Corporate America jobs that average 35-40k.  Also, I know that at my current utility, Ops is union and topped out NLO pay is in the low 30s/hr.  So to hear NLOs start at 31 is already an improvement over what I'm  familiar with.

[Starkist]

Great discussion guys!  Thanks everyone for all the info; I have found this forum to be extremely helpful.

There's definitely a lot for me to evaluate about what I want.  It's good to know that starting as an NLO doesn't pigeon hole you into going the traditional route.  I think the highest priority for me is to minimize the amount of time between graduation and starting a job.  Location is a close second.

I've established my long term goals (which include an getting an SRO license) so I guess it really doesn't matter where I start out - either way I'll be working towards the same thing.  It seems the best thing for me right now is to submit applications to all positions, engineering and ops, that fit my geographic preferences.  Ideally I'd like to not move after graduation and hope that my utility offers me a job at the end of my internship, but I definitely need to have at least one contingency plan.

My take on salary is that as a single guy newly entering the working world, making 62k-65k is just fine.  Beats all those other entry level Corporate America jobs that average 35-40k.  Also, I know that at my current utility, Ops is union and topped out NLO pay is in the low 30s/hr.  So to hear NLOs start at 31 is already an improvement over what I'm  familiar with.

NLO's top out at 38 + yearly bonus. Engineers top out at 150k + bonus + retention bonus + outage bonus. Its also a monday - thursday/friday gig (4x10's, then 5x8's, rotates like that). 

As stated  NLO's get over time, but wont touch engineer salary down here.

[Higgs]

I think know you are mistaken. There is no staff engineer in the world making 150K. Manager or director maybe, not some joe blow working a desk. 99% of engineers at a nuke plant aren't making over 100K. And they certainly aren't getting paid "retention."

You are also mistaken that every place varies wildly. The utilities stay competative with each other and no utility is going to pay an engineer 150K when everyone else is paying them 70K.

In reality, he will make more as an NLO on shift than 99% of engineers at a nuke plant. I think know that is the case at your former plant as well.

[retired nuke]

Im sure that may be the case at your plant, but at riverbend and waterford, engineers make more money then NLO's, Im NOT guessing or speculating. Its case by case for sure. Again, Im just trying to get the OP to have a look at everything before getting sold on one thing or another.

NLO's here start a 31.05 an hour at riverbend with very little overtime. Engineer 3's (bottom level engineer)  start at 68k + bonus. Do the math.

Engineers in Entergy do start in the low 60s, and can top out in the 120k range. A posting (current) for RBS specifies the range as 55k - 121k.
Engineers in Entergy are eligible for a 7% performance bonus (+/- 2%). Craft (AO) bonus is per their contract if union (@ VY - 5%) and all bonuses are based upon station milestones.
AO here - starts at ~ $30/hr. Some OT built into shift schedule.
Ops is on shift for about forever. Engineer is off on weekends as long as the work is done. Engineers are salary - you have as much time as you need to get your work done, but the money is the same.... 
Specialists (Safety, ALARA, Respiratory, OE, CA, etc) are in similar pay band to Eng...

YMMV   

[Higgs]

Engineers in Entergy do start in the low 60s, and can top out in the 120k range. A posting (current) for RBS specifies the range as 55k - 121k.
Engineers in Entergy are eligible for a 7% performance bonus (+/- 2%). Craft (AO) bonus is per their contract if union (@ VY - 5%) and all bonuses are based upon station milestones.
AO here - starts at ~ $30/hr. Some OT built into shift schedule.
Ops is on shift for about forever. Engineer is off on weekends as long as the work is done. Engineers are salary - you have as much time as you need to get your work done, but the money is the same....  
Specialists (Safety, ALARA, Respiratory, OE, CA, etc) are in similar pay band to Eng...

YMMV  

Thanks for the facts of Entergy.

Now Starkist should go poll his engineering group and see how many are anywhere near the top of their range.

[cheme09]

NLO's top out at 38 + yearly bonus. Engineers top out at 150k + bonus + retention bonus + outage bonus. Its also a monday - thursday/friday gig (4x10's, then 5x8's, rotates like that). 

As stated  NLO's get over time, but wont touch engineer salary down here.

Having interned at my utility for over a year, I have a pretty good grasp of the engineering pay and lifestyle is here and it pretty much reflects what has been posted.  Our ops don't pay as well, so it's good to see that info.  In fact that was a personal debate I was having with myself for a while - the pros and cons of an engineering grad applying to ops, taking into account pay and perceived "status".  I found that the "status" part was just my own ego.  The starting pay can be, and is in some cases, comparable.  The working hours I can appreciate since I'm young and willing to put in the work to learn the plant. 

As I stated before my ideal situation would be to stay at my utility, but my main concern is minimizing the time between graduation and starting a job in an area of my geographic preference.  Therefore I will try to stay open to all (engineering and ops) job postings that fit the bill.  I have goals, and while getting an SRO and ops experience is part of it, I don't intend on being on shift (read: in ops) for my 30 or so years in the industry.  Not saying I'm going for NLO right out of the gates and ignoring other engineering positions.  Just going to add that option to the bag and see how the job search goes.

[Starkist]

Engineers in Entergy do start in the low 60s, and can top out in the 120k range. A posting (current) for RBS specifies the range as 55k - 121k.
Engineers in Entergy are eligible for a 7% performance bonus (+/- 2%). Craft (AO) bonus is per their contract if union (@ VY - 5%) and all bonuses are based upon station milestones.
AO here - starts at ~ $30/hr. Some OT built into shift schedule.
Ops is on shift for about forever. Engineer is off on weekends as long as the work is done. Engineers are salary - you have as much time as you need to get your work done, but the money is the same.... 
Specialists (Safety, ALARA, Respiratory, OE, CA, etc) are in similar pay band to Eng...

YMMV   

Youre correct. However, engineers  are management at riverbend. not union. they get a set bonus in their contract. not a performance bonus.

I think know you are mistaken. There is no staff engineer in the world making 150K. Manager or director maybe, not some joe blow working a desk. 99% of engineers at a nuke plant aren't making over 100K. And they certainly aren't getting paid "retention."

You are also mistaken that every place varies wildly. The utilities stay competative with each other and no utility is going to pay an engineer 150K when everyone else is paying them 70K.

In reality, he will make more as an NLO on shift than 99% of engineers at a nuke plant. I think know that is the case at your former plant as well.

Sorry justin, but no. 6 section at riverbend. thats a whopping four hours of overtime a month. Lets assume a topped out NLO at 38 an hour (was 36, but changed last month). Thats 6270 a month, and 75k a year. As far as bonuses go, its 5% +/-2% if you get it at all, but I've heard the average is around 3000. That bumps you to 78k. A BRAND NEW engineer in my fundamentals class got hired in at around 70k. His bonus is higher, and YES they do get retention bonuses when they become sr engineers here. thats his STARTING salary as well. Starting pay for NLO is 64k. Thats already bumping 6000$ over top, which isnt insignificant. Im not guessing or speculating. Im talking about riverbend. OF course, during an outage year an NLO WILL make more.

Again, we're splitting hairs here. The whole point I was trying to make is the guy will get experience AND make decent money either route he chooses, not a pissing contest for "Ops is the best and makes the most money".

[Higgs]

Removed irrelevant personal debate.

Starkist, I disagree with everything you've said, as described below. I also doubt the retention bonus for senior engineers, but that is irrelevant.

I have experience at two utilities and two plants and I have a vast network of ops and engineering personnel to safely say that if his goal is SRO;

NLO---RO---- SRO or NLO----SRO is the preferred path vs engineering to SRO. One is a guaranteed path, the other isn't. And in general, when comparing apples to apples, ops makes more than engineering. He knows this already, which is why he ONLY asked if he could do NLO---SRO, which of course the answer is YES.

Stating "senior" salaries and what not is irrelevant in regards to a person that is entry level.

Also, "either path" as you say, will NOT give him good experience. Engineering will not give him any good experience towards SRO what so ever.

Justin

[retired nuke]

Youre correct. However, engineers  are management at riverbend. not union. they get a set bonus in their contract. not a performance bonus.

Engineers are not union here - you must be thinking of Pilgrim...

Part of the bonus is based upon plant performance, part ispersonal performance. That's Entergy..... better performers get more than marginal ones. That's how non-union works.
Union has the same bonus for everyone. And Entergy bases all the bonuses on plant and fleet performance, profit, etc.

[Starkist]

Taking a step back, you guys are absolutely right, Im speaking from a narrow mind and short experience here. Id just hate to see this guy pass up a "sure thing" without knowing all the in's and out's first is all.

Riverbend is certainly a "strange" place. They are SUPER short on engineers and that may account for the higher then average pay. 65% of their SRO's and shift managers are eligable for retirement in the next FIVE years as well. They really need people down there.

[Benwah033]

Entergy pulls instant SRO's from engineering. my buddy is in class now and kicking butt. Dont sell yourself short. do what you want to do. You will get paid more as an engineer as well.

False - At my plant, NLO's A) all make the same pay rate - union job, and B) make more than SRO's when you include their OT.  Its not even close, so there is no way engineers make more than NLOs. 

PS - I was an engineer at the plant I'm talking about, so I know first hand... 

[cheme09]

At your plant, how long does it usually take a NLO to get fully qualified?

[Starkist]

False - At my plant, NLO's A) all make the same pay rate - union job, and B) make more than SRO's when you include their OT.  Its not even close, so there is no way engineers make more than NLOs. 

PS - I was an engineer at the plant I'm talking about, so I know first hand... 

Bolded the applicable. If nlos made more then sros why the hell would anyone become an sro , that makes zero sense.

[bradley535]

Bolded the applicable. If nlos made more then sros why the hell would anyone become an sro , that makes zero sense.

Most NLOs and COs don't become SROs. Not here, at least. Here, we make SROs from Engineers, Navy vets, and the occasional Chemistry Manager. It's pretty rare to see a CO/NLO decide to step up for the SRO position.

I can't speak for NLO pay, but the COs make more $/hr than I do (and that's straight time). Things to keep in mind:
1) I'm a very newly licensed SRO.
2) That doesn't take incentive bonuses into consideration.
3) License bonus is factored into CO hourly rate; whereas, for SROs it's separated as a specific amount per pay period (regardless of number of hours worked).
4) SRO pay raises tend to be higher => seniority means higher pay.

Please keep in mind that this is only specific information from the plant I work at. I hope the information is useful.