Question About Getting Denuked at Prototype?

[Punnett]

To be honest, I've been kind of struggling for a long while now but I've managed to not fail out the program. Really, the material isn't at all difficult but that ends up only being testament to how truly inept I am. There are people around me who pick up information so much faster than I and I find myself feeling relatively stupid quite often. It's like other people absorb more information per unit effort or something and, while I can definitely work harder than the rest to make up for the difference, I've found myself questioning as to whether or not the struggle is actually worth it or at all practical. The prospect of rerating or going conventional seems really nice simply because I don't really want to work in Nuclear power my entire life (or at all, really) so all this learning and training I'm going through isn't going to do me that much good. I mean, why make myself unhappy for no reason other than to masochistically pressure myself to not be a quitter and finish what I started?

To put things into perspective, I was putting in 20/25-0's in power school and barely passed comp with a 2.53 and I'm currently 2 points ahead of the curve in Prototype. I do try, at the very least, to be responsible and not a dirt-bag, but I really feel like I'm not cut out for this. Feels as though I'm trying to shove a square block in a circle hole or something. I'm sure all this whining will be met with much negativity but I was just hoping for some objective guidance as to what I should do.

Thanks.

[MMM]

Here's a secret: Just about every staff would rather have a student that busts their ass and barely passes than a student that coasts by. Why? Because the student that busts their ass will continue to do so in the fleet and will know how to work through failure, the one that coasts might just give up when things get rough. Just keep trying and don't be afraid to ask for help. If the instructors know you're trying, they will do everything they can to help you succeed.

[Tylor]

The thing you should be taking away from prototype is how to qualify. You're trying super hard and riding the curve, you're doing fine. Your work ethic is going to put you above others in the fleet. It's going to be stressful, and nukes have a way of making some of the smartest people feel like idiots. I have friends in the same boat as you who got down to about 25 percent behind the curve and they were still trying. If you're on the curve, you clearly don't have a lack of ability, and you don't seem to have a lack of effort issue.

You have plenty of options where you are. Get with your staff advisor (or staff member you're comfortable with) for a counseling session, they're job is to help you get through the program, and that doesn't only involve checkouts. They can work with you and tell you about all the options you have.

[spekkio]

Just remember: If the minimum wasn't good enough, it wouldn't be the minimum.

[GLW]

...........They can work with you and tell you about all the options you have.

Punnet's option is to succeed,...

Just remember: If the minimum wasn't good enough, it wouldn't be the minimum.

yup, pert much,...

...........I was putting in 20/25-0's in power school and barely passed comp with a 2.53 and I'm currently 2 points ahead of the curve in Prototype....

small hours compared to some, and I'm sure the NNPP has changed much since class 8102 but even then some pretty good folks found themselves on ordered hours, IIRC our #1 MM out of NPS was on ordered hours by Week 3, he was in my Section,.............and you passed, so there you go,...

........but I really feel like I'm not cut out for this.......

yeah, but we have long memories and you were warned about the rigors of the NNPP before you took the plunge,...

I just went and took the Nuke Test and passed it. The thing is, I don't know whether I should trust anything anyone is telling me because I don't know their agendas......................................

I guess my largest concern is: how much do Navy Nukes actually get paid?

I hear that a lot of people sort in the Navy sort of dislike Navy Nukes because they get "paid" more and stuff but do they really? I know there's a large re-enlistment bonus and there are things like BAH and other bonuses you get outside of your base pay. How much would I make as a Navy Nuke compared to other people who enlist over time? How much do Navy Nukes make after they re-enlist?

My recruiter is E-6 and he tells me that, in total, he makes like 6000-7000 a month including all the bonuses and stuff. Is he BS-ing me? 'Cause that feels like it's a lot of money for being in the military if you like.. multiply it by 12........

Thanks a lot for the advice. I've decided to switch over to Nuke from MC. Hopefully I can get that sorted out over the next few days or weeks or however long that process actually takes..........

soooooooooooooo,...

you took the advancement,...

you took the money,....

get your NEC and you can take even more money,...

and you if you can pass it (the NNPP), and you can, then you are cut out for it, you may not like it, but being cut out for something and liking it are not necessarily synonymous,...

so, do your duty and do your best,...

if you end up liking it after all, then good for you,...

if you end up not liking it I would recommend you do not re-enlist for the MONEY,...

do your 6, do them well, and move on, your NEC and your honourable discharge will serve you well in future endeavours outside the USN,...

but if THEY perceive you're gonna quit, or worse yet, you tell them you're gonna quit, then THEY have the option to make your existence a living hell with nothing to show for it on the other side,...

Here's a secret: Just about every staff would rather have a student that busts their ass and barely passes than a student that coasts by. Why? Because the student that busts their ass will continue to do so in the fleet and will know how to work through failure, the one that coasts might just give up when things get rough. Just keep trying and don't be afraid to ask for help. If the instructors know you're trying, they will do everything they can to help you succeed.

and THAT is/was very true (hopefully still is),...

except the secret part, AIRI, this paradigm preference was drilled into us from Week 1, Day 1 of NPS,....

[GLW]

as an aside, my colleagues and I have paraphrased a maxim that serves any and all well,...

"Never let the boss know you are good at something you do not like doing."

[HydroDave63]

The prospect of rerating or going conventional seems really nice

How about the prospect of a bus ticket home, and no GI Bill due to less than 36 months active service? All of the branches are cutting costs and people all over the place.



http://movie-sounds.org/download#L3F1b3Rlcy9zdGFyOTcvWW91LXNpZ24tZm9ybS0xMjQwQS15b3UtZ3JhYi15b3VyLWdlYXIteW91LXRha2UtYS1zdHJvbGwtZG93bi1XYXNob3V0LUxhbmUhLm1wMw==

[Tylor]

Punnet's option is to succeed,..

I'm not talking "options" as in how to get out, I'm talking about if he's feeling overloaded, or has things going on at home that he's not disclosing in this forum post, there are people he can talk to. For extreme cases you can be put on reduced hours if you're feeling extreme stress. He could also need some one on one to evaluate what he may be doing wrong with study habits. We all want this guy to succeed.

That being said, if you're riding the curve, you're doing alright. I'm not sure if I can post about the status of the plants, but depending on where you are, these scheduled shutdowns could be stressing you out. Get book tight, do a technical upgrading board, and get reduced hours. Those are some of the options he has beyond just "succeed". Though I'm not sure if I was counseling my student and told him to "just succeed/qualify" that he would take a lot of value out of it..

[GLW]

I'm not talking "options" as in how to get out, I'm talking about if he's feeling overloaded, or has things going on at home that he's not disclosing in this forum post, there are people he can talk to. For extreme cases you can be put on reduced hours if you're feeling extreme stress. He could also need some one on one to evaluate what he may be doing wrong with study habits. We all want this guy to succeed.

That being said, if you're riding the curve, you're doing alright. I'm not sure if I can post about the status of the plants, but depending on where you are, these scheduled shutdowns could be stressing you out. Get book tight, do a technical upgrading board, and get reduced hours. Those are some of the options he has beyond just "succeed". Though I'm not sure if I was counseling my student and told him to "just succeed/qualify" that he would take a lot of value out of it..

yup, but that's your job,...

how he succeeds is the OP's job,...

you see the Navy has the luxury of owning all your time, and that's a lot of time to come up with as many fuzzy bunny tactics as it takes to "help" someone succeed,...

or not so fuzzy bunny,...

but there's a much bigger world out there where "fuzzy, bunny", "unicorns and rainbows" are platitudes,...

you can fill in the blanks, in that bigger world your success is what you make it,...

and if you don't make it, nobody cares,...

I sum it up this way,....

sure, you can be that "great guy!",...

the one everybody talks about as being so swell and so missed, too bad he/she just couldn't get his/her job down and be successful at it,...

'cause they were a great person and they are very missed,...

yup, I've heard that conversation a dozen times or more over the last few decades,...

I have never seen all those folks talking about the great guy take up a weekly donation fund out of their own pockets so the great guy could keep on providing for his family the same as he did when the great guy was working where he no longer works,...

so, "just succeed" is the essential truth of it,...

just succeeding allows a nukeworker to make posts like this:

Actually 'the wife' liked the Magnum and so did I (and based on the fact that they are not easy to find used, so do most of the original owners.) I am not the least bit worried about perceptions of it being a station wagon (it is.) They are very versatile and drive very well, not to mention getting out of their own way in a big hurry.

As for the Crossfire, I am also not worried about owning a Mercedes SLK with a Chrysler badge on it because it still behaves like a MB and I paid about 2/3 of the cost of the SLK. If I wanted to drive what the crowd is driving I would buy a Ford... but that is not very likely unless I get a lobotomy.

as opposed to posts like this:

HELP! Trapped at NNPTC, I want out!

Hey,

Well I just got out of boot camp and I'm at NNPTC. While I was at boot camp I saw everybody else got to change their rate, except for the nukes. I was excited about this program, but then it hit me that no this isn't what I want. Well anyway my recruiter told me I could change my rate at boot camp, he didn't tell me that once a nuke always a nuke. But I chose to be an MM. So my idea was to finish A school and try and get as high of a GPA as possible and tell them that I don't want to be in the program anymore. I just want my MGIB benefits, do my 4 years as an MM in the fleet, and get a degree in Physical Therapy. As you can tell the career I want has nothing to do with nuclear propulsion. So could somebody please help me and tell me the route I need to go to accomplish this. I'm not a quitter, but it's just not for me. Thanks for the comments and I hope you guys can help.

[Punnett]

I think success is relative. Some people want to shoot magnums and drive Benz's and some people want to use their time in the Navy simply as a stepping stone towards other things. I don't think I have the moral authority to judge who's right and who's wrong.

Clearly, society frowns upon the weak willed quitter but, if you force someone who's 5 feet tall play in the NBA and he wants to quit because he's miserable and constantly getting dumpstered on, it's kind of hard to blame the guy. I mean, maybe he can put forth super-human effort and work on his assists or dribbling skills to make up for his deficits, but that's not exactly realistic.

It's a hyperbolic metaphor, but all I'm trying to say is that it's also not realistic for me to work harder and keep on chugging along without being really stressed out and miserable and, to me, that's not worth it even if I can get through the pipeline and collect the fat bonuses. See, I thought 60 hour work weeks were rough--try 84. Holy crap. Meanwhile, my friends who failed out of NNPTC work ~40 hours a week.

I don't want to live to work. I want to work to live. Am I being unreasonable here?

[Tylor]

You're not being unreasonable, but this is the training pipeline, you're almost at the finish line and you're calling it quits before you even experience your job. Prototype sucks at times, but you could also get ahead in a couple days, everything could click, and you can really start enjoying your job. I struggled on 25-4s through A-School, put in 30 hours a week in power school, and was near the top of my class in prototype. Things clicked for me early on, but as we approached the end of class, I got the chance to help my shipmates and see the light bulbs turn on. Now I'm a staff pickup, and I can tell you all good staff members want you to succeed. Talk to your staff advisor about what they did to get through. There's also no guarantee that there is an easy way out. You could just get separated without benefits.. or go to a job where you have just as much stress without the benefits of nuke.

[HydroDave63]

How things have slipped since the good old days of 8304, Lt. Root's HTFF... 0:52 onward

[GLW]

........I don't want to live to work. I want to work to live. Am I being unreasonable here?

nope, you're fine, most likely you shoulda stayed a MC, maybe you can go back or try for it on the civilian side,...

I think success is relative. Some people want to shoot magnums and drive Benz's and some people want to use their time in the Navy simply as a stepping stone towards other things. I don't think I have the moral authority to judge who's right and who's wrong.

Clearly, society frowns upon the weak willed quitter but, if you force someone who's 5 feet tall play in the NBA and he wants to quit because he's miserable and constantly getting dumpstered on, it's kind of hard to blame the guy. I mean, maybe he can put forth super-human effort and work on his assists or dribbling skills to make up for his deficits, but that's not exactly realistic.

It's a hyperbolic metaphor, but all I'm trying to say is that it's also not realistic for me to work harder and keep on chugging along without being really stressed out and miserable and, to me, that's not worth it even if I can get through the pipeline and collect the fat bonuses. See, I thought 60 hour work weeks were rough--try 84. Holy crap. Meanwhile, my friends who failed out of NNPTC work ~40 hours a week............

if you still want to be a mass communications specialist you need better metaphors,....

that 5 foot NBA player you held up as an example is looking at a minimum salary which is 10X greater than the USA average or median salary,...

10X greater,...

NBA Minimum Annual Salary Scale (it's a few years out of date, yet consistent with contemporary comparisons)

YOS    2011-2012   2012-2013   2013-2014   2014-2015   2015-2016   2016-2017   2017-2018   2018-2019   2019-2020   2020-2021
0    $473,604    $473,604    $490,180    $507,336    $525,093    $543,471    $562,493    $582,180    $602,557    $623,646
1     $762,195    $762,195    $788,872    $816,482    $845,059    $874,636    $905,249    $936,932    $969,725    $1,003,665
2    $854,389    $854,389    $884,293    $915,243    $947,276    $980,431    $1,014,746    $1,050,262    $1,087,021    $1,125,067
3    $885,120    $885,120    $916,099    $948,163    $981,348    $1,015,696    $1,051,245    $1,088,038    $1,126,120    $1,165,534
4    $915,852    $915,852    $947,907    $981,084    $1,015,421    $1,050,961    $1,087,745    $1,125,816    $1,165,220    $1,206,002
5    $992,680    $992,680    $1,027,424    $1,063,384    $1,100,602    $1,139,123    $1,178,992    $1,220,257    $1,262,966    $1,307,170
6    $1,069,509    $1,069,509    $1,106,942    $1,145,685    $1,185,784    $1,227,286    $1,270,241    $1,314,700    $1,360,714    $1,408,339
7    $1,146,337    $1,146,337    $1,186,459    $1,227,985    $1,270,964    $1,315,448    $1,361,489    $1,409,141    $1,458,461    $1,509,507
8    $1,223,166    $1,223,166    $1,265,977    $1,310,286    $1,356,146    $1,403,611    $1,452,738    $1,503,583    $1,556,209    $1,610,676
9    $1,229,255    $1,229,255    $1,272,279    $1,316,809    $1,362,897    $1,410,598    $1,459,969    $1,511,068    $1,563,956    $1,618,694
10+    $1,352,181    $1,352,181    $1,399,507    $1,448,490    $1,499,187    $1,551,659    $1,605,967    $1,662,176    $1,720,352    $1,780,564


the 5 foot player may garner deep respect for succeeding at what he strives to do, but he will never garner pity from the plight of only earning 10X what anybody else earns in spite of all his hard work,...

because A LOT of people work very hard just to earn that average/median wage, and ofttimes earn a lot less than that,...

so, if you want to make it good as a MC you will have to work harder, because your metaphors employed here on this forum do not represent that you have a natural, easily implemented proclivity to excel at mass communications either,...

you may be cutout for it, but you are still going to have to work at it,...

although you do have a knack for twisting a conversation from facts and assessments to feelings and hyperbole,...

perchance televangelism, politics or infomercial pitchman?!?!?!?  

PS - no one working at anything gets "forced", those days ended in 1865 hereabouts, no one forces the 5' NBA player and no one is forcing you, you volunteered, after seeking input for the pros and cons and after receiving objective, none candy coated feedback, you volunteered,...

and then you signed a contract,...

here's your metaphor:

you were all signed up for a Chevy Spark, but then somebody showed you the Z06,...

but you are not stupid, you went and asked about the pros and cons of owning a Z06,...

then you got the feedback, the highs and the lows, the rush and the drudgery,...

and then you had Ally Financial tear up that Chevy Spark contract and sign you up for the Z06,...

and the loan officer at Ally was only too happy to oblige,...

and now you have buyer's remorse, and you want out of that contract,...

and maybe Ally will let you out, I dunno,...

but perhaps you could read this one time and remember it,....

later in life, after you grow up, and you are selling your first home as a prerequisite to taking that vaunted anchor man's job in the big media market out on the coast,...

and then,....you get that phone call from the real estate agent that your prospective home buyer is backing out of the sale, everything is off,...

you're gonna have to dig deeper in your pocket to make the move for a host of reasons, mostly because the erstwhile home buyer is backing out of the contract,...

remember that the erstwhile home buyer may have come to the conclusion (like you are today) that they are that 5 foot point guard,...

for the buyer, completing the commitment to buy your house and meet those mortgage payments is akin to struggling in the NBA as a 5' point guard,...

the buyer wants to live in a home, not live for a house,...

be as kind, understanding, generous and magnanimous to that erstwhile house buyer as you expect the Navy to be to you today,...

because, just as you will have to personally suck it up due to that erstwhile home buyer tomorrow, the Navy is gonna have to suck it up for you today,...

that's why they have contracts,...

that's why they have karma,...

almost forgot [(sic) 4 beercort]

[HydroDave63]

but I want you to read this one time and remember it,....

later in life, after you grow up, and you are selling your first home as a prerequisite to taking that vaunted anchor man's job in the big media market out on the coast,...

and then you get that phone call from the real estate agent that your prospective home buyer is backing out of the sale, everything is off,...

Just ask the buyer "Do you know who I am...?" 

[Druid]

...all I'm trying to say is that it's also not realistic for me to work harder and keep on chugging along without being really stressed out and miserable and, to me, that's not worth it even if I can get through the pipeline and collect the fat bonuses. See, I thought 60 hour work weeks were rough--try 84. Holy crap. Meanwhile, my friends who failed out of NNPTC work ~40 hours a week.

Only you can determine the value of your hard work. The value of mine didn't become apparent until sometime later.

Skip the next part if you want to avoid some lame-a$$d story by an old phart.

I consider Prototype to be my opus magnum. Prior to joining and getting into the program by background was that of white trailer trash, sub-class Single Wide. I made it into the program with the minimum NFQT score which earned me the 6 week version of Pre-school. I completed NNPS and stood somewhere in the middle of my class, but got held back in Orlando for two classses post-graduation. I was fortunate and got assigned to Admin where I help to out-process academic drops, security drops, alcohol drops, and the like. I eventually made it to Idaho and struggled through prototype. I don't even know why I kept an apartment the last two months - I was living on-site in the bunkroom. Eventually, I got notice that I was on the list for an Ac Board. I knew ALL of the details involved in a Ac drop having been on the processing side. I knew this wasn't where I wanted to be. The odds were stacked unfavorably. I said "screw it" and took the bus back into IF. While moping on the back bench, an instructor from another shift came up to me and asked what the problem was and for the next hour I spilled my guts. It was cathartic. He gave me a little guidance, but mostly moral support. I got a good night sleep in my own bed and turned right back around the next day and went back out to the site.

The Ac Board took place in the middle of the night. I saw the morning sun and found that I was the only one of those who went before it to survive. With that in my pocket, I kept at it. I was the last person on my crew to qualify - but dammit, I did it.

Fast forward a dozen years to a few weeks before Christmas. I'm off active duty but still in the reserves while working on my Bachelors. I'm taking a full load while working a 40 hr/wk job. I have a wife and two lovely daughters- one a newborn. The week of finals our newborn girl dies suddenly of an undiagnosed heart defect. Oooof! My marriage, my school, my job, and life in general started sucking really bad. What got me through it was mentally going back to prototype and I knew I could keep going and make it thorough this rough time. The following Spring and Summer semesters I continued dealing with the loss, continued working full time, being a Dad while going through marriage counseling and personal counseling. Over the two semesters I took 34 credit hours so that I could graduate as quickly as possible. And I did that too. I got my degree and I'm still married to my wonderful wife.

What is your crappy Prototype time worth? It has one value today but may mean something completely different in one year, five, or twenty-five. Who knows....

I don't want to live to work. I want to work to live. Am I being unreasonable here?

That is asked like a question, but the underlying tone comes off as someone looking for justifications for their decisions.

Its your decision and so to should it be your justification. No one elses.

Best, D

[Marlin]

Only you can determine the value of your hard work. The value of mine didn't become apparent until sometime later.

Skip the next part if you want to avoid some lame-a$$d story by an old phart.

I consider Prototype to be my opus magnum. Prior to joining and getting into the program by background was that of white trailer trash, sub-class Single Wide. I made it into the program with the minimum NFQT score which earned me the 6 week version of Pre-school. I completed NNPS and stood somewhere in the middle of my class, but got held back in Orlando for two classses post-graduation. I was fortunate and got assigned to Admin where I help to out-process academic drops, security drops, alcohol drops, and the like. I eventually made it to Idaho and struggled through prototype. I don't even know why I kept an apartment the last two months - I was living on-site in the bunkroom. Eventually, I got notice that I was on the list for an Ac Board. I knew ALL of the details involved in a Ac drop having been on the processing side. I knew this wasn't where I wanted to be. The odds were stacked unfavorably. I said "screw it" and took the bus back into IF. While moping on the back bench, an instructor from another shift came up to me and asked what the problem was and for the next hour I spilled my guts. It was cathartic. He gave me a little guidance, but mostly moral support. I got a good night sleep in my own bed and turned right back around the next day and went back out to the site.

The Ac Board took place in the middle of the night. I saw the morning sun and found that I was the only one of those who went before it to survive. With that in my pocket, I kept at it. I was the last person on my crew to qualify - but dammit, I did it.

Fast forward a dozen years to a few weeks before Christmas. I'm off active duty but still in the reserves while working on my Bachelors. I'm taking a full load while working a 40 hr/wk job. I have a wife and two lovely daughters- one a newborn. The week of finals our newborn girl dies suddenly of an undiagnosed heart defect. Oooof! My marriage, my school, my job, and life in general started sucking really bad. What got me through it was mentally going back to prototype and I knew I could keep going and make it thorough this rough time. The following Spring and Summer semesters I continued dealing with the loss, continued working full time, being a Dad while going through marriage counseling and personal counseling. Over the two semesters I took 34 credit hours so that I could graduate as quickly as possible. And I did that too. I got my degree and I'm still married to my wonderful wife.

What is your crappy Prototype time worth? It has one value today but may mean something completely different in one year, five, or twenty-five. Who knows....


That is asked like a question, but the underlying tone comes off as someone looking for justifications for their decisions.

Its your decision and so to should it be your justification. No one elses.

Best, D

No need to chime in, your lame-a$$d story sounds just like one by us old pharts     

[spekkio]

I don't want to live to work. I want to work to live. Am I being unreasonable here?

No, you're not being unreasonable.

Unfortunately, to get to the point in your life where you get to work to live, you have to live to work first. The harder you work early in your career, the sooner you can work less later in your career.

As Judge Judy (my wife loves her for some reason) said: "The mark of success is being paid more to work less."
Or a more prominent Bill Gates if you prefer: "I never took a day off in my twenties."

Here's the rub: I checked back in the other thread and numerous people (including me) said that you will hate life if you chase nuke for the $$$$. Well here you are. My personal opinion is you should sack up, do the job you raised your right hand to do, and when the time comes you can go your merry way.

Keep in mind that your other option - failing - could result in 'separate member within 10 days' and you are working 0 hours a week... and broke. And if not, here's a little secret: there are very few jobs in the Navy that works 40 hours a week. You just happen to get paid a good salary to learn a skill that you will take with you when you leave and more rapid advancement. "Sailors belong on ships, and ships belong at sea."

[Fluffy Bunny]

you see the Navy has the luxury of owning all your time, and that's a lot of time to come up with as many fuzzy bunny tactics as it takes to "help" someone succeed,...
or not so fuzzy bunny,...
but there's a much bigger world out there where "fuzzy, bunny", "unicorns and rainbows" are platitudes,...

I feel like my IP has been violated.

[oldtimer]

I qualified at S3G in March of 1966 with a 3.25, midpoint of our class. , at that time they were sending more people through school than billets were available. They told us we would be very disappointed when orders came through, I went to a WW2 destroyer