wow... denuked for medical issues

[Cycoticpenguin]

Just wanted some info here.

Upon reporting to the ship, I had some medical issues that had to be ironed out, and it turns out they are a bigger deal then I expected. Before I joined the Navy I actually was declined for service initially until I had a bunch of tests for medical stuff that happened when I was younger. Apparently the medical officer at the MEPS approved me after I was defered to her, yet she did not send my information to BUPERS. Since my waivers were never actually approved, I am de nuked for now. This was told to me by the senior medical officer on my ship, and he said it could take 3-4 months for them to get back to me with a waiver. that said, If i dont get my waivers passed, I will be de-"navied" .

So I have some questions

1)  has anyone heard of this happening before? If so, what occured of it
2) what happens if I get kicked out of the military???
3) any words of advice on how to go about this? Im not too keen on "pressuring" a commander every day like I am a first class.

thank you in advance for information and help.

[JsonD13]

1) I've heard of people developing disqualifying medical issues during their service but not a pre-existing medical condition that they over looked.

2)If you get kicked out, find a good job.  You passed the pipeline and you will be valuable anywhere.  Also get some education.  Start now if you can, while you are doing whatever they have you doing not being a nuke.  It never hurts to be prepared for the worst/best (depending how you look at it).

3)Wait the specified time frame, then start asking every day.  If you are polite, and try to make it seem like you are not pressuring them (like asking how you can check on it yourself) you wont get in trouble.  Remember, just because they have an oak leaf doesn't mean they are necessarily better than you.  Since this is YOUR medical care, no one is going to care 1/10th of what you do regarding the situation.  You have to be the one to fight for yourself.  If you want to stay navy, express that to whomever you can. 

[JustinHEMI05]

Wow! Good luck with your situation. I pray that it works out for you... either way.

Justin

[thenukeman]

As an Executive Officer of a Training Company I came across a few cases of Medical Problems. Most were given a waiver, especially since most had passed boot camp before they got to me.  I recall a few who were medically discharged.  A medical discharge is not bad and should not prevent you from doing most jobs.  The sad part was people waiting not knowing for weeks at a time.  I reccomend that if you are still thinking nuke and you think that a plant will not medically disqualify you then you should maybe study the NUF on line on Nuke worker. Print off the study guide maybe even study the DOE guide.  Why waste your time, be proactive, tell them you want to stay in , keep a good attitude, maybe this will help.  Still study to cover all your bases.  I wish I told my people this, but being about 24 at the time,  I did not think about it.

One Guy got out of the Army NBC school for medical reasons and decided he wanted to be a Russian translator.  He did very well on the Language appitude test.  ( Not Exactly sure what they call it.) He got this and studied until it was time to ship out, about 4 weeks.

[G-reg]

I'm not super heavy on all the medical disqual stuff, so bear with me on some of the (dumb) questions.

Did they pull your NEC?  I can see how a medical condition could prevent you from receiving occupational exposure (i.e. getting a TLD), but if you wish to remain a nuke, talk to your Dept Master Chief.  He may know of some way to keep your NEC for a while even if you can't draw a TLD, and he may be able to use you for maintaining Dept qual folders, training records, pubs, and other stuff on the admin side of the house to at least keep you involved with nuclear stuff.  And anyway, you don't really need an NEC to do nuclear admin, just a security clearance (which shouldn't get pulled for a non-psychiatric medical issue).  Just a thought.

Are you currently in the no-man's-land commonly called Med Hold?  If they won't let you play in the nuclear sandbox, I would recommend taking every CLEP test that you can get your hands on.  Even if there ends up being not enough time to take bona-fide college courses, you can still squeeze off a ton of CLEP tests in a few months.  Even if you aren't thinking of college right now, you may think of it later down the road.  And anyway, CLEP tests are free while you're Active Duty, so you've got nothing to lose (and personally I'd rather be out taking CLEP tests than sitting idle in Med Hold).  Do you have access to a Navy College Office where you're at?  Studying for the NUF like thenukeman mentioned is another terrific idea.

And usually if you ask somebody in Medical if there is anything that you could/should be doing in regard to your waiver, 99% of the time they'll tell you "No, we're just waiting on _____".  And you can usually ask "About how long does _____ usually take to turn around a waiver like mine?" without p---ing anyone off.  So in two simple questions, you've determined the current status of your waiver and 'pinged' on Medical about it (squeaky wheel, and all that) - all without giving the appearance that you're pressuring a commander.  Repeat every three days or so.

THIS PART I SAY VERY CAUTIOUSLY:  consider talking off-line with a Navy JAG.  Tell him everything about how you were brought into the Navy, and the situation you are in right now.  There may not be anything that can be done, and I would NOT encourage you to jump into any kind of legal action at this point, but you should at least go and determine what your possible options are.  Keep your cards very close on this issue, though; tell anybody that you are going to see Legal, and just guess what's gonna go through the back of their minds every time they see you from that point on.  But at the same time, you really oughta know what your rights & options are.

Best wishes, & good luck!

[thenukeman]

One of the most important things I got from the military is my VA Loan.  I looked this up but it seems vague, you may want to ask JAG to see if you are elgible for a home loan since it appears you will be in for more than 90 days,

been discharged with less than 90 days of service for a service-connected disability. Individuals may also be eligible if they were released from active duty due to an involuntary reduction in force, certain medical conditions, or, in some instances, for the convenience of the Government.

For more information, see the VA's Home Loan Guarantee Web site.

Also other benefits to include educational.

You could also email or write VA when you get out for your VA loan certificate, or whatever they call it.

Hopefully that will be awhile after they approve your waiver.  But if not, take care of yourself and checkout your benefits,  JAG may be able to list them all for you.   But I would not trust JAG all the way, check for yourself, some JAG are not the sharpest tools in the shed.  But thats another story, basically, I saved my but along with 2 NCO's buts that worked for me after I was told JAG could not do anything. I had to search regs prior to the internet and search tools which sucks, but I got it done.

[hamsamich]

Looking at it from a purely practical point of view:  if you get out, make sure you GO TO MASSACHUSSETTS and get your 600 bucks a week unenjoyment.  Actually, because of your low pay scale, Pennsylvania may be a better option as you can max out easier (18 grand or so for 2 quarters).  MASS is about 30 grand for 2 qtrs, which I don't think you qualify for.  I didn't do this when I got out, and I should of.  I know you are probably thinking about more big picture stuff right now, but make sure you use this valuable option to help transition into civ life.  You can take a break and use this time to plot your next course!  PA pays 528 a week.  Sweet.  Good luck.

[Cycoticpenguin]

Thank you guys for your advice.

My medical officer is attempting to get me a "temporary waiver" from BUMED, and he said that should be no problem. However, It was supposed to happen last week, and I'm still in the dark.

As well, my condition was disqaulifying for naval service, not for nuke field, so my NEC isnt pulled at this point. However, My tld was taken away, and I am unable to stand watch, nor am I going to be of much use to division for a few months at best. I was somewhat assured that my waiver will go through, so hopefully it does.

That said,  I have some medical issues that popped up AFTER joining the Navy. IF my waivers do get declined, who do I speak with about medical compensation pay? (disability?)

Thank you again.

[Fermi2]

I was all over the Naval Medical System after I broke my elbows.

1: If you end up having a service connected disability you go through the VA. You can't do this until after you get out, and until you do know what your disability rating is they won't talk with you.

2: Most cases the Max Disability you'll get is 5 to 10%. This is not 5 to 10% of your base pay. It's just a number the VA uses. It really doesn't matter what the USN rates you as the VA will examine you and give you their own rating. If you see any civilian doctors about your condition make sure you get copies of your records as they will help you with the VA.

3: If it is service connected don't be surprised if the VA gives you a lower percentage unless it's something that potentially cripples you.

4: Anything less than 30% will not get you education or retraining money from the VA. To give you an example of what 30% is I'll use me as an example. I snapped both my funny bones. The left split into 6 pieces and slowly ground my left elbow all to hell. The Navy finally surgically removed the pieces. The right stayed in one piece and did not heal. I was in the Medical Hold system for 18 months which is the maximum allowed at the time. Because of a paperwork error they were going to keep me 24 months in Med Hold but I pressed the issue, arranged for my own medical board and went home on terminal leave the day I started my real world job. I ended up being rated at 25%. At the time I could barely rotate either of my forearms. I cannot do a pushup and it I curl items too often my elbows lock up. One problem being rated at greater than 30% is the Navy can at their discretion call you back for a physical to prove you are still disabled. Note there is no such thing as medical retirement. ANY disability issues get handled through the VA. Another thing, I cut 6 months worth of Med Hold to less than 7 days. After this government lady told me why was I worried, I'd get to live off the government for 6 more months I decided the only way to get out was to take matters into my own hands. I called an Officer I knew in San Diego, he liked the pizza my wife makes. He agreed to arrange for my med board the next morning. He was quick too as I had the authorization to seek discharge in my hands by 8AM. I took it to personnel and they said from that point it would be 7 weeks. I called Washington myself and I talked a very nice E8 into checking their mail on a Saturday, this was Friday morning. I overnighted my medical authorization at my expense. By Tuesday I had my approval to be discharged. I took it to Personnel and they told me I'd be out of luck as they were only discharging head cases and fatboys the next 10 days. I then talked to a Captain who liked me because I saved his command almost 700,000 dollars the year I worked for him. He called Personnel, and told me to report to a Lieutenant within the next half hour, he then gave me the keys to his vehicle so I could get there on time. I was on terminal leave with a check for 18,000 K in my hand at noon Friday Morning. I started at DTE the next Monday.

5: I used my Med Hold time to take every course the Navy had on Electronics, Electricity, Naval and powerplant engineering. I also studied for my First Class Engineers exam for the state of Ohio. I also took some college courses. I obtained nuclear plant info for every utility in the country. Read their Standard and Poors Rating, learned who was who in their organizations and sent my resume to the big guns. It worked. 13 Interviews 14 Job offers. (SoCalEd offered me a job in Ops and in Chemistry).

6: Use the time wisely. If your condition was Pre Navy it'd be AWFULLY hard to prove anything after was caused by your service, trust me the paperwork trail is incredible.

7: Once you're out and have proof of disability it'll save you some steps if you contact your local VVA and see if they'll handle your VA stuff. In either case you'll be waiting awhile as cases like yours, where you're discharged for reasons other than your disability are way down on their priority list. I'm not 100% certain I would have posted you may have disability issues on a public website, the Navy can be very fickle and simply use that as addition reasons to pull your NEC.

Mike

[Cycoticpenguin]

thanks for the reply mike,

couple things - > 

1) the thing disqualifying me was  Viral Encephalitis. I had a grand mal seizure and was in a coma for over a month. Recovery was full, but left some "ticks" (nothing a normal person would notice). This is what caused my delay on DEP, and why I was denied service. the fact that the waivers were not given to me is nothing to do with me, nor was I told anything was wrong in my term of service so far.

2) the medical issue I have had for a while now (about a year coming) is severe upper back pain. I have a handful of doctors on it, all of whom wrote me off as a typical "back pain"'ed sailor (i.e. trying to get out of work).  Finallym after months, a doctor in saratoga could physically see my back problem and immediately sent me to physical therapy. HOWEVER due to rotating shift work, getting to physical therapy as I needed was virtually impossible. I actually had to speak with the CMC and XO at ballston spa because I wasnt able to go. Everything is fully documented and in my medical record.

3) Im not really looking to gouge the goverment for money, I just wanted to know how it goes.

4) last but not least, if my waivers get declined... what happens? (NPQ for service). Do I get severance pay? Do I just go on with my life? Who should I speak with at my command about this? My CoC doesnt really know what to tell me.

thanks again.       

[Fermi2]

You don't seem the type to gouge for anything. Back pain is not a disability by VA standards unless you can link it to an injury. If it's not the reason you got out you won't get disability.

There is no severance pay. The only people who get severance pay are those who are discharged due to disability and in truth it's not severance pay, it's a advance on your disability. You don't pay it back until you file for your disability. Then your disability goes to paying back your "advance" until it's entirely paid off. IIRC to get this type of advance you'd have to be in for over a regular enlistment period. I qualified because I was an E-6 over 6 years.

Mike

[Fermi2]

Thanks Jason, IIRC the final pay is based on your time in, your time in rate, and your actual rate.

I do hope everything turns out well in this case because he's obviously enthusiastic about being a nuke and seems to have worked his butt off.

Keep studying as any knowledge is good.

Mike

[thompson63]

I was a Navy nuke and medically discharged in February 1990 due to a service connected injury.  The process may have changed since 1990 but my process was fairly easy and occurred quickly.  The recommendation for medical discharge came in September 1989 and my discharge from the Navy was February 1990.  At the time of discharge I was an E-6 with seven years and two months of service.  My severance pay was calculated using my rank and time of service.  The calculation was around $18,000.00 and I received the check on day of discharge.  Once discharged, I applied to the VA and was rated at 10% for my left knee and lower back.  I was awarded a monthly payment from the VA, around $95.00 but did not draw a monthly check because the $18,000.00 had to be paid back in full.  If you do the math, it was going to take almost sixteen years after the date of discharge to receive a check from the VA.  In 2002, I applied for an increase in VA benefits and was awarded 20% (10% knee, 10% back).  With the increases in pay from 1990 and the increase to 20%, the original &18,000.00 was paid in full in 2005.  I now receive $235.00 from the VA that is direct deposited into my savings account. 

Please note there are some benefits that come with the 20% compared to the 10%.  Some state VA programs offer free education to your current (or future) children and spouse.  I was a resident of Alabama when I joined and moved back to Alabama in August 2000.  The state VA program offers a full four years to your biological children and two full years to your spouse.  The requirement was I had to be a resident of Alabama when I entered the military, a resident of Alabama when my children started college and they had to attend a state supported college in Alabama.  Both of my sons attended college through the Alabama VA program. 

Another benefit that has helped me is medical.  I was diagnosed as a type II diabetic in December 2006 after a routine company physical revealed by eye sight had deteriorated.  Currently, I go to the local VA office every three months for all my blood work, medication and diabetic supplies.  I have an eye exam once every six months with a civilian doctor and the VA pays for my eyeglasses. 

I hope this helps and God bless.

[Cycoticpenguin]

Hey guys, spoke with my CoC about the advice given. They completely agreed, and mentioned that I should take a "TAP" class (). Not sure what that is, but Im assuming its going to cover the stuff you guys said. As for my life... im going to be standing a LOT of reboiler and shaft alley patrol haha.

Oh well, could be worse I suppose. (least my elbows arent shattered!).

Thanks again for helping me be informative and on top of what needs to happen.

[mlslstephens]

Hey guys, spoke with my CoC about the advice given. They completely agreed, and mentioned that I should take a "TAP" class (). Not sure what that is, but Im assuming its going to cover the stuff you guys said. As for my life... im going to be standing a LOT of reboiler and shaft alley patrol haha.

Oh well, could be worse I suppose. (least my elbows arent shattered!).

Thanks again for helping me be informative and on top of what needs to happen.

TAP, transition assistance program.  Great class but some topics that don't apply seem boring.  However, the topic that seems boring to me may be of great use to the guy next to me and vice versa.

Here is a link to the online version.  http://www.taonline.com/TapOffice/

Read through the topics, go to class and learn about life after the Navy.  And you get to wear civilian clothes for the week.  Relax for a week, and absorb everything you can.   I recommend going twice because there is always something else to learn.  The VA portion will be crucial for you to listen to.

Cyco, I wish you nothing but the best.

[JustinHEMI05]

Hey guys, spoke with my CoC about the advice given. They completely agreed, and mentioned that I should take a "TAP" class (). Not sure what that is, but Im assuming its going to cover the stuff you guys said. As for my life... im going to be standing a LOT of reboiler and shaft alley patrol haha.

Oh well, could be worse I suppose. (least my elbows arent shattered!).

Thanks again for helping me be informative and on top of what needs to happen.

Imagine not HAVING any elbows. Mike probably experienced that torment for a while. I bet that sucks bad. So yeah, could be worse. At least you have something to work with if you do get discharged.

Justin

[Fermi2]

Go to TAP. IIRC when I got out it was called PRECAP School and if you were disabled you were required to go. Civilians taught it, and they had contacts literally EVERYWHERE. They were the ones who advised me to use the VVA as my negotiators with the VA. They also had some neat tricks about how to get extra disability if you were getting out due to disability. Their tips for getting a job were first rate. An example, I never once dealt with an HR department during my initial job hunt. I'd get the Corporate Structure from Standard And Poors (Available at the library, now I guess the net would make it even easier). I used that info to send my resume and cover letter to the CEO, Corporate President, Plant Manager if known, and all the Nuke VPs in the organization. The theory is even if he never reads it his office forwards it to HR, HR sees the forward from the big wigs and assumes you know him so you'll at least get a call. This approach actually got me hired at Davis Besse during a HIRING FREEZE!!!. Since I had already been at Fermi for a week I decided not to work at the Bess. I was interviewing right up till I got out of the Navy and most likely I missed interviews because when I left Vallejo I left no forwarding number or address since I started at Fermi that Monday.
That was just one trick.
Another: If they ask if you know any of the other applicants and you actually know one tell them so. If they ask if you'd hire that person inform them only after you are hired as you are the best candidate there. Confidence shows.

Living without good elbows has been rather a bitch but that's what life dealt me and my family so like any good nuke I adapted. The only annoying part is both my elbows feel like someone whacked the funny bone 24/7 and my left palm is numb about 3/4 of the way across and getting a bit worse. Also both arms get nerve fire if I sleep on one side too long so I have to get up about every 90 to 120 minutes and sort of make and unmake fists to stop it. Still it's been a darn good life! By the way, stuff I learned while I was de nuked served me in great stead, for example all the electrical stuff and electrical print reading had me off and running with knowledge that I've used every single day in the civilian world.

Mike

[Cycoticpenguin]

O.o what does IIRC mean?

Well I hate having a pity party, so Im just going to press on from now. I have a good rep on the ship already, so Im not going to let it go to waste   . the way I look at it, either a) im gonna get kicked out, and get a good job or b) these extra watchstations im learning will go towards watch supervisor, and ill eventaully get out and get a good job.

either way its win win, so whatever happens, happens. Thanks for the good advice guys. I appreciate it

[RDTroja]

O.o what does IIRC mean?

If I Recall Correctly it means... um, yeah, that's it.

[G-reg]

http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/

Awesome website for finding out what most acronyms stand for.  You'll get several hits when you look up an acronym, but the right one usually jumps out at you when taken in context (from the orignal post/message).



And by the way, this particular information could be useful whether you stay in or get out, so it's NOT off-topic.
Really, I swear...