SRO questions

[Ragnar]

Hello again, it's the nervous wife! 

You all had such good advice beforehand, so I figured you'd give me the straight story on SRO. 

Husband is being looked at by a few companies for SRO (he's got the watch something qual, I don't know).  Being the Navy wife that I am, the salary range looks really good and the bonuses that the companies are dangling in front of him could get our child through college.  However, he's leery to go that way because of rotating shift work, long work weeks, and just a general lack of family time.  Now, before you blast either one of us, please know that I honestly want him to have a job that he's happy with (especially since this command has been a soul killer), and his information is " a friend of a friend told his cousin..."

So, tell me--is SRO as bad as we've heard?  Don't get me wrong, he's not averse to working hard and long hours if that's what it takes, but he had hoped to go into a Training position.  My line of thinking is that if he did 5 years SRO (depending on if he qualified), he could use that SRO to move into Training.  He thinks that once you become a SRO, the companies like to keep you there because of SRO shortages.  Right now he's willing to take SRO with a certain company because it gets us in the area we'd like to be, so I guess I'm looking for some reassurance that it won't be so bad.

As for the money, I was kind of joking about it; I know that bonuses are never a given and that the high range is not what you start with.  If he were to be offered a mid five figure Training position, I would support him taking it, but honestly, that higher SRO salary would really help us make this transition from Navy to civilian life.

Any and all feedback is appreciated; I've got fairly thick skin -and some good meds  

[Fermi2]

In 5 years he won't be in training. He'll still be too stupid to be in training. His initial training program is at least 2 years after which he can count on being on shift for about 7 to 10 years. If he's good at that point he might become a shift manager. If he's awesome like me he'll do it in 15 months but I doubt being a T Baller he'd be capable of that.

So count on at least 10 years of Shift Work. He might get to training at that point unless there's a Shift Manager ready to go there.

SRO is like any position, it's what you make of it. All I can say is he better have a thick skin because it's the minimum required equipment. Also keep in mind the failure rate for a TBaller coming into the Big Leagues is over 50%.

Mike

[HydroDave63]

He'll still be too stupid to be in training.

Decoded as "not enough civilian nuclear power industry experience to give instruction in an INPO-accredited program, but with a few short years of experience as mentioned could apply"

[LT Dan]

In 5 years he won't be in training. He'll still be too stupid to be in training.

JackA$$

If 50% of the people you hire from a given source fail out, then perhaps you guys are the stupid ones for continuing to hire them.

[Gamecock]

JackA$$

If 50% of the people you hire from a given source fail out, then perhaps you guys are the stupid ones for continuing to hire them.

Actually, he told me in a pm it was 77%.

He needs to hear it straight up, statistics show 77% of the Naval Officers who try commercial power as an Operator fail out of the training program because it's too fast paced.

BZ needs to get his facts straight, IMHO.

[thenuttyneutron]

My class had 6 guys from the Navy going DSRO.  The only two that made it were hired in to be training instructors and had more than a year on site before going to class.  They also had gone through the EO training pipeline.

The 4 ex navy DSRO guys hired for Unit Sup all failed to get a license.  That 77% number is probably not too far from the truth.  Tell your husband to become an EO first and then decide if they want to try and earn a license.  The money is good and the EO job is probably harder to lose.

[Ragnar]

Appreciate the responses!

Broad--we've had friends go directly from Navy to civilian Ops Training as recent as this year.  I don't know if that's what you're talking about, or maybe something else?  According to job listing/hiring managers/plant contacts, husband is well-qualified to be Training Supervisor; maybe they are just blowing smoke?  Asking honestly, really don't know.

[Fermi2]

Appreciate the responses!

Broad--we've had friends go directly from Navy to civilian Ops Training as recent as this year.  I don't know if that's what you're talking about, or maybe something else?  According to job listing/hiring managers/plant contacts, husband is well-qualified to be Training Supervisor; maybe they are just blowing smoke?  Asking honestly, really don't know.

Maybe I've only been working as a commercial nuke for the past 20 years with 15 as a manager. So I probably don't know anything...
Tell your husband to earn his keep and not to try milking the system. His career in the big leagues will be a LOT better.

[B.PRESGROVE]

In 5 years he won't be in training. He'll still be too stupid to be in training. His initial training program is at least 2 years after which he can count on being on shift for about 7 to 10 years. If he's good at that point he might become a shift manager. If he's awesome like me he'll do it in 15 months but I doubt being a T Baller he'd be capable of that.

LOL, I have to admire the bluntness and frankness of mikes statement.  No BS, or politics, or sunshine feel good, or sugar to help the medicine go down.  I truely do love it.

It would help Ragnar out if maybe more senior managers (and mike is one of them) could chime in here.  I dont know enough to be of any help, but there is so much talent on this site I know your answer is not far off.  I learn more everyday.

[Harley Rider]

So, tell me--is SRO as bad as we've heard? 

No it's not as bad it's worse. Regardless of what people here say about Mike's bluntness he is absolutely correct. It is exceptionally difficult to transition from the Navy to commercial nuclear power operations. I am in my 8th week of license class (I know haven't scratched the surface)and I will tell you it is unlike anything I have ever done. I spend 30 hours a week (my own time / not paid) at the plant studying, reviewing technical documentation and tracing systems just to stay on par with experienced operators in my class that have the foundation I do not. I work 7 days a week and for the first time this year actually took time off because we have no class or test during the holidays. Funny, I actually feel guilty about taking time off. I see my family in the morning when I leave and an hour after I get home. One reason they pay you well in this job is they know the sacrifices that you need to make in order to do what they hired you to do. Looking back if I could do it all over again I would have started as an equipment operator and worked my way up at least then I would have known the plant much better prior to going into license class. Mike has always said that those leaving the nuclear Navy have the qualifications to be a janitor at a commercial nuclear power facility,,,,,he is 100% correct. Be carefull what you wish for you might just get it,,,,Peace

[JustinHEMI05]

I just completed an SRO training program, and it was the hardest training program I have ever completed. To echo Harley Rider, you literally have to turn off your life for 18 months to get through it as, Mike would say, a t-baller. But, it is doable. Just take what Harley said to heart, and really think about what is best for your family. Long term, it may be worth it to "suffer" for 18 months.

Don't sweat the shift work too much. With the new NRC rules, he will actually have quite a bit of time off with the family. In fact, it will be about a half a month each month, depending on the type of shift schedule they have. Like has been stated, the worry here should be simply on completing the training. It will take away from your family, count on it. So have a heart to heart, and I am sure you will come to the correct decision.

If you have any specific questions about what to expect, please feel free to PM and wouldn't mind having a chat with your husband on the phone.

Good luck and keep us posted!

[caleb133]

No it's not as bad it's worse. Regardless of what people here say about Mike's bluntness he is absolutely correct. It is exceptionally difficult to transition from the Navy to commercial nuclear power operations. I am in my 8th week of license class (I know haven't scratched the surface)and I will tell you it is unlike anything I have ever done. I spend 30 hours a week (my own time / not paid) at the plant studying, reviewing technical documentation and tracing systems just to stay on par with experienced operators in my class that have the foundation I do not. I work 7 days a week and for the first time this year actually took time off because we have no class or test during the holidays. Funny, I actually feel guilty about taking time off. I see my family in the morning when I leave and an hour after I get home. One reason they pay you well in this job is they know the sacrifices that you need to make in order to do what they hired you to do. Looking back if I could do it all over again I would have started as an equipment operator and worked my way up at least then I would have known the plant much better prior to going into license class. Mike has always said that those leaving the nuclear Navy have the qualifications to be a janitor at a commercial nuclear power facility,,,,,he is 100% correct. Be carefull what you wish for you might just get it,,,,Peace

What is your background? Civ or Navy? Enlisted or Officer? If enlisted what was your rate and what your highest qual? How many years were you in?  Just trying to compare my background with yours.

[Fermi2]

I feel the love! To tell the truth my mind is virtually banged right now. I'm in requal this week and the other day I was asked if I could validate an exam being given to some SRO embryos. 100 questions from memory. I think in the last 5 years I can safely say I've taken more tests and answered more test questions than any SRO in the industry. We have 3 classes in progress plus two more that just completed and I've validated nearly 85% of their exams.

I echo everyone's statements here and I want to tell Harley, never feel guilty about taking a break from your studies. You cannot study for 30 hours extra a week at the level of a License and hope to come out of it sane. Saying that, you're on the right path. I believe I studied and worked harder for my 3rd license than any of the others. I wasn't about to have anyone at SQN say I didn't know the plant, I walked down systems, reviewed procedures, studied my butt off, and bugged the Operators till my face turned blue. It was worth it.

One bit of advice to the Instants here. As part of your studies make sure you review major Surveillance instructions, particularly those that have auto starts and interlock testing. They're GOLDMINES of knowledge.

Mike

[thenuttyneutron]

I feel the love! To tell the truth my mind is virtually banged right now. I'm in requal this week and the other day I was asked if I could validate an exam being given to some SRO embryos. 100 questions from memory. I think in the last 5 years I can safely say I've taken more tests and answered more test questions than any SRO in the industry. We have 3 classes in progress plus two more that just completed and I've validated nearly 85% of their exams.

I echo everyone's statements here and I want to tell Harley, never feel guilty about taking a break from your studies. You cannot study for 30 hours extra a week at the level of a License and hope to come out of it sane. Saying that, you're on the right path. I believe I studied and worked harder for my 3rd license than any of the others. I wasn't about to have anyone at SQN say I didn't know the plant, I walked down systems, reviewed procedures, studied my butt off, and bugged the Operators till my face turned blue. It was worth it.

One bit of advice to the Instants here. As part of your studies make sure you review major Surveillance instructions, particularly those that have auto starts and interlock testing. They're GOLDMINES of knowledge.

Mike

I am surprised that Broadzilla did not mention the NLO route in addition to his high opinion of Instant SRO candidates.  Your first license will probably be the most difficult to earn.  The alternative to the just add water, shake & bake DSRO path is to hire in as a NLO.  Learn the plant by actually using the procedures and learning the plant hands on.  Go to RO class when you can and earn the license.  Watch and see what the job of SRO is like and then go back to class for the SRO license once you have a good understanding of the job.  

The one thing I do like about the RO position is how I am the one that manipulates the plant equipment.  There is still tons of admin stuff with the RO job, but I can do the job of a NLO when I am not in the Control Room on watch.  The night goes by so much faster when you are busy with jobs the whole time.  

[ragnar]

Maybe I've only been working as a commercial nuke for the past 20 years with 15 as a manager. So I probably don't know anything...
Tell your husband to earn his keep and not to try milking the system. His career in the big leagues will be a LOT better.

Just following up on this.  Husband was hired as Senior Ops Trainer w/very good salary & relocation.  Guess he's going to milking the system, huh?

Thanks to everyone that was helpful. 

[Fermi2]

SEnior Ops Trainer means Any Ops Trainer. Dead end career with no respect from the facility staff.

[ragnar]

Thanks Broad, I knew you just wouldn't be able to resist getting in another dig 

[Smooth Operator]

I will say congrats to your husband for getting a job. I will echo Broad's opinion of an OPs instructor. In order to teach a License Class he will need to have an SRO cert first, at least. I think that takes almost as long as a hot license class without the big evaluated exam at the end, but I could be mistaken. If he just needs a job to have income for awhile and regular hours, then this is a good job, however there is not a whole lot of upward mobility in training. The only way up to the big leagues of management at a nuke plant is via Operations and having an SRO license.

YMMV, but seems to be the way it goes.

[Fermi2]

Thanks Broad, I knew you just wouldn't be able to resist getting in another dig 

BTW, I wish him the best of luck. I know it's an exciting time for y'all. If he needs any help just let me know!

[ragnar]

So I had this big long vitriolic reply typed out...and then I went and killed some more lung tissue, drank a beer and chilled out

I can't begin to tell you how grateful we are for this opportunity.  This is a job in his home state, and our daughter will be able to actually stay in one school for longer than a year or two.  He was lucky enough to have friends at the facility, but he also worked his ass off preparing for interviews/site visit/lectures.  As a matter of fact, he's got a lecture about power generation on the Death Star if you ever wanted to know about that     And no, that's not the one he used during his presentation!

There's no way in hell that he's going to go into this job waving his service record around like some tranny's favorite feather boa.  In fact, he is excited to learn and realizes that he's got a lot of that to do in the next few years.  He's respectful and appreciative of any and all knowledge given to him, so the last thing I want to do is leave you with the impression that he thinks he's all that.

In fact, if you have any advice for him (constructive or not, Mike!), feel free to pass it on.  This is his career for the next twenty something years, so he wants to start it right, you know?

[Fermi2]

Best advice I can give is :

No matter how bad the day is to just close your eyes and say I'm making a lot of money and for the most part not working as hard as many who make less, then say "This too shall pass" followed by, Heck I get to see my family in a few hours!!! It's worked for me and kept me as sane a sort of am for the last 20 years.

I went from being voted the Most likely to be thrown in jail for a long time in my HS Senior Class Vote to being the guy in charge of two multi billion dollar machines and all I can say is even after 20 years it's been like having my father hand me the keys to his multi billion dollar Lincoln and saying have fun on your date with the Doublemint Twins

JUst remind him of paragraph 1. The second he starts taking work frustration from his job home to his family is the second the job isn't worth the loss of perspective and to get out. Always, and I repeat always "This too shall pass"

Mike

[retired nuke]

There's no way in hell that he's going to go into this job waving his service record around like some tranny's favorite feather boa. 

This line alone is worth ....

Good luck- I echo Mike's sentiments regarding priorities / family. No matter how much money, it's just a job. 

[ragnar]

Thank you gentlemen 

I guess he plans on getting his SRO (cert or license, I don't know) asap.  He was given the impression that he would be allowed/encouraged to do so as soon as possible.

As for the trials and tribulations of work, at least he's not going to have to be a "meat gazer" in the civilian world (his words).  So pretty much anything else that's thrown his way is going to be cake, at least for the first few years.  He's got this incredible work ethic--actually, it's likely no different from anyone else on this forum, as far as I can tell--and is looking forward to be doing actual work rather than trying to untangle pay issues or early return of dependents. 

The ability to help his mother out, to watch his nephew play hockey, and to plant some actual roots is more important than anything else right now.  But that's age talking, too; the older we get the more we want to be back with family and give our daughter (an only) the chance to grow up surrounded by people who love her.

[Smooth Operator]

"at least he's not going to have to be a "meat gazer" in the civilian world (his words)."

Between that and your tranny comment, methinks you are the perfect Navy wife.

[HousePuke]

Please understand, if he chooses commercial nuke he'll be at least as "married" to his job than he is to you or was in the navy (other than sea duty).  The commercial nuke world is like an addiction to a bad drug in that the money is pretty good, but the demands on your personal life are completely out of control.
If you (or he) think commercial nuke will be a great life, please consider what constitutes "great".