ET vs. ELT

[latenuke]

Hi, Im going to boot camp in February and was wondering which people on here think is better, being an ET or being an ELT. I scored well on the ASVAB and the NAPT (nuke test) and have alot of college behind me, so I think they will let me be an ET if that is what I request. But is it better to be an MM, study real hard, do real well and then hope to get picked up as an ELT?

By better I mean more challenging, more interesting or varied shipboard duties, better job oppurtunities if/when I decide to leave the Navy?

Thanks in advance for any input anyone here has.

[Chelios]

The answer to this really depends on what you would rather do. If you like electronics, electrical theory, vector analysis, etc, then go for ET. If you like working with wrenches, valves, pumps, welding, etc., then go with MM. Of course, it may ot matter, the Navy is going to fill their needs first. I applied for ET and got EM. There is no guarantee that you will be picked for ELT school. If they don't perceive a need, they might not even have an ELT class when you graduate. Once you get out though, if you have been nuke trained, you can get a job as an HP no matter whether you're an ELT or not. It'll just take a little longer to make senior tech. If you want a job as a control room operator, being an ET/RO will probably open the door a little easier. Another thing they look at when you get out is whether you served in a supervisory position while in the Navy - LPO, ERS, EWS, EOOW, etc. Good Luck

[LaFeet]

Hope for the choice, but be ready to do your best with your assignment.  I elected for Mao Mao when I went in, and "trician" as my second choice.  I retired as a Reactor Operator.

If you chose RO (ET) then I suggest you try to secure a billet at a RADCON tour in your later years-  preferably at a TRF (Bangor or Kings Bay).  This will give you the extra RADCON experience to round out your HP skills before you hit the streets.

Good advice about qualifying those Senioor Supervisory Watches.  They help and allow you to demonstrate leadership skills.

I have been out for only 5 years now.. and the RADCON market is only gettng better... I may even try a few outages this year too boot...  Good luck - Fair Winds and all that naval stuff

[Already Gone]

Y'know what?   Just do what you want to do.  Okay?  Just do the thing that looks like more fun.  Being an ELT is not the be all and end all of nuclear power.  My time as an ELT got me nothing more than a ton of duties that I was "allowed" to complete after finishing all my work for Machinery Division.  It got me on the Preventive Maintenance Schedule for two divisions, rather than one.  It got the AEF to wake me up with section one regardless of the fact that I was not in that watch section.

Did I hear someone say that it got me a job as an HP?  I can't stop laughing.  EVERY Navy nuke, and everyone else whom the Navy qualified to use a frisker, can get a job as an HP.  Don't know why you'd want one - it pays $6 per hour less than a laborer and $12 an hour less than a Boilermaker.  Operators START at more money than HP's make after ten years.

Anyone who is willing to admit to the truth will tell you that getting picked up for ELT school had one major determining factor - if you are a Machinist's Mate who displays no aptitude for handling tools, you will get into ELT school.  ELT school is the Navy's way of correcting the mistake of letting people become MM's when they should have been ET's

[Chimera]

Speaking (okay, writing . . . okay, key punching) as an ex ET/RO who is now a roadie HP Tech, I would reccommend both equally.  You get more reactor theory and operational theory as an RO.  You get more chemistry and radcon as an ELT.  When I first started in civilian life as a road Tech, I was envious of the ex-ELT's scope of knowledge at HP Techs.  It seemed that nothing I learned as an RO really prepared me for the type of work I was doing or the tests I had to take as an HP Tech.  The only "advantage" I had was the ability to learn and learn quickly.

If your future goals are to go into Operations and Plant Management, stick with the ET/RO choice.  That will help you the most in future civilian License Training classes.  Use your Navy time to finish that degree . . . it gets harder the longer you put it off (too many other claims on your time).

Good luck and remember to always have fun with what you are doing . . . even when you don't feel like it's very much fun.

Michael

[rc41]

I think Beer Court flunked out of ELT school.  Personally, I get paid as an HP a little better than a Laborer or Boilermaker.

[Already Gone]

I think you're dreaming.  The Contract HP's here get $23/hr, with time and a half for all overtime.  Journeyman Boilermakers earn $35/hr, with double time on Sundays, Health insurance, and Pensions.  Laborers run at about $29.
Any HP who thinks he's well paid compared to other plant workers would be really heartbroken if they started asking around.  House HP's are paid much better, but not nearly what house operators are.  They're about equal to Instrument techs, and a little lower than QC/QA/QI type people.

[latenuke]

Thanks for your points of view. Im decided, I am going to ask for ET and then give 110% to whichever rating Im assigned to.

[dav8]

It got the AEF to wake me up with section one regardless of the fact that I was not in that watch section.

I think that has to be the best quote I've heard in awhile, one that only ex-underway ELT's would understand.

[scruffy]

I think Beer Court flunked out of ELT school.  Personally, I get paid as an HP a little better than a Laborer or Boilermaker.

I agree with Beer Court about this but I turn wrenches just fine (built 2 cars as a hobby) and it got me lots of extra work in the engineroom when I didn't have samples to do.

[Harshman]

Beer Court may not have made thru ELT school, may have. His descriptor is the clue..."crumudgeon at large..."

Each of the rates has pluses and minuses. ELT was a collateral duty. However, duty ELT on a Boomer was the end all if you wanted rack or movie time. More than a human could handle.

IMHO, latenuke, you have chosen the correct path.

[Already Gone]

I otta schmack ya fer that.  ELT was absolutely not a collateral duty.  Only the lazy non-ELT's in M-Div. thought so.  They expected us to carry the same share of M Div. watches, PM's and training as they did.  But, my PRIMARY NEC was 3366.  (ELT)  It was my primary duty, and I was lucky if the MLPO gave me half a day a week to do it.

[scruffy]

Hey back in the old days (1988) I passed my last chiefs exam in 30 mins. and my Personnel officer on Swordfish told me that their were at least 22 MM's going to be promoted to E-7 because LELT was made a chiefs billet to separate M and RL divs. so I guess that tells me that ELT was not a collateral duty but ELT's that did M div. work were doing a collateral duty. I stood sonar operator and ERS watches as underway ELT and also had to change demin resin cause that nasty old M-div chief told me that the demin were my gear.

[mattrev]

I otta schmack ya fer that.  ELT was absolutely not a collateral duty.  Only the lazy non-ELT's in M-Div. thought so.  They expected us to carry the same share of M Div. watches, PM's and training as they did.  But, my PRIMARY NEC was 3366.  (ELT)  It was my primary duty, and I was lucky if the MLPO gave me half a day a week to do it.

I hope he meant  from an M-divver point of view. I know that's how mine thought (being an ELT was a collateral duty). My ELT's were also 3 of the 5 M-Div QAPO's and, at one time, 4 of 6 were E-6 (M-div had 2).

I don't know what boomer he was on, but our ELT was busy (usually the junior guy had it). Expected to be up at midnight, drills on the morning watch, training/maintenance on the afternoon. Mix in a few MO watchstation quals. He also got most all the pm's. The rest of us only had a very few. I was only the ELT for 1 of 6 patrols (the first). After that, it was all M-Div watchstanding.

T'was nice though. I was the LELT after 3 patrols and qual'd EWS. Got to spend the last 2 patrols as mid EWS/Ships Drill Coordinator. (i.e. no rubber suckin'  )

[Marlin]

   I experienced all of the above as an ELT. On a typical patrol (SSN) I was continuously busy during transit with operational plant chemistry and the ever present drills. On a number of occasions I went a day or more without seeing my bunk. When we arrived on station the reverse was true I had about one hour of work each day as there were no drills, no maintenance, and NO NOISE. This was a boon to the junior man on board as you are probably a Non-qual at this point and it gave you an opportunity to work on the myriad of qualifications that you must complete on schedule (Basic Engineering Quals, Ships Quals, Watch station quals). Non-quals where a burden to your division or department which meant giving up your seat at movies to those wearing thier Dolphins and the periodic checks of your ever present qual cards by your "Sea Daddy" assigned to monitor your qualification status (Can you say Dink?). Being delinquent on your quals made you lower than whale manure.
   My M-division work tended to be linked to being an ELT. We performed more of the primary plant work for maintenance and stood watches on mechanical watch stations that had collateral chemistry functions. When I qualified EWS I still was required to perform a minimum of ELT watchstanding functions to maintain my ELT qualifications.
   As far as becoming an ELT the selection was made from MM volunteers. It was made clear that if requesting one of the instructor billets from the graduating class it looked better if you also volunteered for ELT.
   As with any military job the needs of the service will always prevail. Three months prior to a ship yard overhaul all of the ELTs on board were handed the ship yards version of our Rad Con manual and were told to qualify. The next 10 months we took control of the ship, drydock, and supporting barge radiologically ever weekend (I still dread the thought of bottle checks).
   As for the choice of MM and ET, I had the highest electronic scores of the nukes in my bootcamp company and was still selected for the MM rating (alas higher mechanical scores too). Once you enlist they own you. With that said I do not regret having enlisted. Go in with your eyes open, fight for what you want and accept what happens. I believe that most got what they requested, but not every one will. Poor morale is not in the Navy's interest but the needs of the service will prevail.

[scruffy]

Marlin is correct, once on station the non qual has plenty of time to get quals done I was underway ELT my first deployment and got my Ships qual done in time to drink my dolphins in Yokosuka as we did 3 spec ops that deployment

[Already Gone]

Most of my time underway was ELT, Engineroom Forward, or ERS.  (ERF had the secondary sample sink , and the ERS was free to go to it if there was no ELT there)  The way that worked out was that I did almost no secondary chem when ELT, and all of it when not.

At one point, ELT's followed by M-Div. were the first Silver Dolphin divisions on board.  We could sign about a third of the SS qual card, which meant we never had to wait long for someone to bring us coffee on watch.  It also made the ELT duty about as lazy ass as it gets.
Here is my schedule as underway ELT after I got my quals:

1700  Wake up, shower eat dinner.

1800  Do routine rad surveys or pm's

2000  Watch movie

2200  Close out day's logs, finish any surveys already started, start new logs for next day, goof off or work on other quals ( I was the only MM on my boat to qualify as throttleman.)

2300  Eat midrats

0000  Start background check on one scaler, sign out of old day's log.do daily turbidity and conductivity analyses, buffer check sec. pH meter

0020  Switch to other scaler, start background check, buffer pri. pH meter, do daily contam survey of valve op areas.

0030  do source check on scaler, set up lab for primary sample, source check all friskers, count smears from daily survey

0100 watch SS movie.

0300  start primary sample

0400  clean up nuc lab, graph everything for the day, get graphs reviewed, do pm's on that day's schedule

0500  eat breakfast, put wake up call in COW's book.

0600  Read a book until I fall asleep
SLEEPZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ until 1700 or until that $%#%^#$% AEF wakes up section one - whichever comes first.

I never had to qualify EWS.  By the time I was ready to, I got transferred to another boat and the same thing happened again.  Then I got out and joined the human race.

[Already Gone]

I stood sonar operator and ERS watches as underway ELT and also had to change demin resin cause that nasty old M-div chief told me that the demin were my gear.

According to the Enginnering Department Orgainization Manual, "...(the ELT) shall have no other duties."  Standing Sonar or Planesman watches for the fun of it was OK, but being ERS was not.

[moodusjack]

When I was on the Long Beach in the 70's the only thing ELTs did was ELT.  They did scoop a couple of us for throttle watch.  But that was it.

Hey, hell on board this ship was defined as the color of purple in a white little bowl.  Master-o-arms ccollecting all the shower valve.  And talk about hideout...and hideout return and rapid blowdown following a scram.  Yowsar.

[Flooznie]

Who your M-div chief played heavily on how the elt's got screwed on the boat.  Esp if your LELT was a 1st.  We had this bad M div chief for a long time that said that "being an ELT was a collateral duty", and all elts worked for m-div.  If you had a M-div chief that was an ELT, you really didn't have to worry about much.

ET1 (SS)

[LaFeet]

Come On Beer Court.....

Either you were flogged daily, or your boat was one of the unusual ones.

I RETIRED as a RO....EWS...BCE...RCSS....etc,etc.. and the "Duty ELT" was only second to the ship's Corpsman with regards to "Rack Burn" severity.

If you had it that hard.. I feel sorry for you... on my first boat we ALL pitched in.  I rigged out many a MSW or ASW pump underway as well as replaced MG bearings at PD.  And yeah... I qualified as secondary chemist to help out the beleagured ELT Division personnel.  i  guess it all came down to which boat and which crew you managed to draw....it sounds like you were on the troubled Greenling crew....

Any how -  it seems you have done well and are happy with where you are at. 
Me too -

BTW   they did not come up with the term SMAG for no reason....

[Already Gone]

You need to go back and redo the math.  I got all my work done every day with enough time for two movies, three meals, and thirteen hours in the rack.  I read hundreds of books while underway.

It was in port that they stuck it to us.  Since the MLPO was an EWS, and in SIX SECTION rotation, he was never out of the goat locker long enough to bother us at sea.  Besides, stuff rarely broke on the newer boats.  But, put a mooring line one turn around a cleat, and they had us standing 12 hours on watch and doing maintenance all night every duty day.  I never used the rack in port for over five years.  Only coners, RO's and officers got to sleep on their duty day.  Then they kept us the next day until 5 or 6 p.m. to do training, PM's, loading oil and water, or just waiting for them to let us go.  Only the LELT and one other ELT were cut loose on weekdays to do all the RL Div. stuff.

I always preferred being on land, but needed to get out to sea just to get some rest.

[Roll Tide]

If you had it that hard.. I feel sorry for you... on my first boat we ALL pitched in.  I rigged out many a MSW or ASW pump underway as well as replaced MG bearings at PD.  And yeah... I qualified as secondary chemist to help out the beleagured ELT Division personnel.  i  guess it all came down to which boat and which crew you managed to draw....it sounds like you were on the troubled Greenling crew....

What Navy was this? I never saw (nor would I have wanted to see) a white stripe snipe rigging a pump.

On second thought, we did all pitch in together when it was time to replace the SCRAM breakers at PD on mod alert (whoda thunkit? We got the first polarity sensitive scram breakers in the sub fleet, and they were wired in backwards!) I guess we all pitched in when the rubber REALLY met the road.

[scruffy]

According to the Enginnering Department Orgainization Manual, "...(the ELT) shall have no other duties."  Standing Sonar or Planesman watches for the fun of it was OK, but being ERS was not.

 

What year was this, cause in the early 80s that was the way it was and the engineering dept. org. man. got thrown out the window if your chem radcon asst. was a kiss ass from the academy and wanted to make points I didnt stand sonar for my health and once I qualed ships my MLPO thought I had way to much time on my hands to just do my ELT routine. I did alot of maint. and other watchstanding when underway as the ELT.

[Already Gone]

You just got screwed by a spineless LELT, among others.  The Eng. on my first boat could quote any procedure or regulation from memory.  Nobody was going to violate one and get away with it.  As far as the CRA goes, they were always the most green officer on board.  The day they got promoted to a "real" division officer job, we got them into the nuc lab and pantsed 'em.  We'd let tham keep the belt to wear the TLD on, but they had to go to maneuvering and retrieve their trousers from the EOOW.  Ssome of those boys were big and it took about five or six of us to do it, but we always got the pants.  Whether they were tough or tiny, every one of them put up a good fight, and they were all good sports about it.
I came to believe that the CO put them with the ELT's just so we could toughen them up a little.  Nobody was as bad as ELT's for irreverence.  We made them earn our respect, and let them know when they were screwing up.   Most of them came aboard looking like deer in the headlights, but by the time they got away from us, they were pretty well broken in.

WARNING!!!!!  All you baby nukes out there better not try to repeat this.  It is punishable by court martial to assault a commissioned officer.  You may not get ones as easy going as we did.  You aren't supposed to address them by their first names, and it is also not advisable to acknowledge an order by saying "blow me", but I've seen that happen too.  You really really really have to be sure about the officer to whom you are speaking before you attempt such familiarity.