Which is better?

[Bfjohnson]

Hello All!

I am new to the site, and thought I'd start with a post on something I'm looking forward to in a couple of years.

I'm a nuke ET, and at my EAOS I'll have roughly 12 years in. I'm on a tour of recruiting duty at the moment, and am detaching from that in about a month. At my first command I qualified RO/SRO and RT (surface guy). My contract is up in late 2008.

As I contemplate my future options, there are a few variables that come to mind that could effect those plans. One, I still need to finish my degree, and am leaning towards the Thomas Edison route. Second, I need to finish my Watch Supervisor quals at my new command. Neither of these should pose much of a problem. Third, while en route to my new command, I'm being sent to "Planner School", supposedly to learn the intricacies of preparing and writing maintenance plans and procedures.

The one thing that makes me most nervous, is committing to civilian life, and finding the job market not what I'm hoping it could, or should be. Because of this, I'm looking at being very flexible in the type of job I'd be looking for down the road, as well as the location of that job.

For those "in the know", am I better off using the training to get into "planner" type jobs, or go with my experience base, and go "operator"? Since my family's livelihood is my highest priority; moreso than my work preference or work location, I would like advice on job direction as it pertains to job security and pay.

What do you think? Thanks for putting on a GREAT site guys, I really enjoy it.

[Roll Tide]

For those "in the know", am I better off using the training to get into "planner" type jobs, or go with my experience base, and go "operator"? Since my family's livelihood is my highest priority; moreso than my work preference or work location, I would like advice on job direction as it pertains to job security and pay.

OPS, without a doubt.
There are many more jobs out there for OPS, and good operators can choose to move up. When you are an SRO (Senior Reactor Operator), you could then go over to planning or scheduling.

There is no higher job security than as an operator inside a bargaining unit; only a plant closure would take your job (unless you commit acts which would land you in the brig today). Non-bargaining operator positions are secure in comparison to positions anywhere else in the plant.

As an ET, you could also take the I&C route. I still prefer OPS.

(NEXT!)

[Bfjohnson]

Thanks for the reply Roll!

Your comments brought another question to mind. I've read through many posts within this site, and there seems to be a lot of debate over the NO/NLO/instant SRO requirements.

Is there a definite answer to this? There was also discussion of waivers from NRC. It sounds like that is an "on again-off again" proposition.

Is there a benefit to trying for an "instant SRO" job? Or is it better to get in the door as a NLO and work your way up to SRO? Or is that even possible?

[Roll Tide]

The normal way is NLO to RO to SRO. It is the best way to learn a plant.

Depending on your degree, you MAY find an opportunity for instant SRO. The planetary alignment must be perfect for that scenario, but it has happened before.

The advantage is quicker advancement.

[M1Ark]

My plant just hired a 9 year navy ETC into our SRO instant class with Thomas Edison BSAST and an MBA.  It is definately possible to be an SRO with your background.  Try looking for SRO or NLO/Aux Operator in Monster.com, hotjobs.com as well as the employment websites of the major nuke utilities (TVA, Exelon, Entergy, Constellation, FPL).  NLO to SRO is a very good idea to really learn the plant but NLO  on it's own is a very good job.  If you're goal is to be an SRO then try to find a plant that has non-union licensed operators.  It'll make for quicker promotion to the licensed ranks since they promote based on performance and not union seniority.   Most union plants takes anywhere from 7 to 15 years to go to RO class from the NLO ranks let alone SRO.

I&C is also a good route for you.  Pay and responsibilities are in line with an NLO but you'll work dayshift more often but career advancement is more limited.

Job prospects for you in 2008 looks very bright as long as you're not picky as to where you want to go when initially getting out of the navy.

Go to the planner school,  finish watch sup quals and get that TESC degree and learn as much as you can about the commercial industry and hit the ground running in 2008.

Good luck,

MM1

[Roll Tide]

Most union plants takes anywhere from 7 to 15 years to go to RO class from the NLO ranks let alone SRO.

....

Job prospects for you in 2008 looks very bright as long as you're not picky as to where you want to go when initially getting out of the navy.

The figures above are subject to change based on attrition. Given the age of the nuclear plants, there are tons of people getting ready to retire between now and 10 years from now. Almost every plant will have advancement faster than this in 2008-2010; it will be even faster if new construction plants start hiring experienced people in that time frame as well.

A plant with high attrition will have half that time for advancement; some even less.

[Bighouz107501]

Rolltide, I love the words you just spoke of...I really hope that attrition is in my favor when I'm finished with my active duty...It seems liek it will be around 2012-2013.

[Roll Tide]

Many utilities are developing construction programs which will each build at least one nuclear plant to go online 2013-2015.

They will be staffed up by 2012 if going online in 2013; much manning would be 2013 for 2015 plants, if the time frames are similar to the previous generation construction.

Getting out 2013! Do those words hurt when they come out? 

[WIFEY26525]

INSTANT SRO IS A JOKE. EVERYBODY WHO WORKS AT THE PLANT WILL LAUGH AT YOUR ASS AND MAKE JOKES. YOU DIDN'T EARN THE TITLE, YOU DIDN'T LEARN THE PLANT, YOU DIDN'T PAY YOUR DUES.

THAT'S LIKE AN OFFICER IN THE NUKE NAVY THAT WAS A MUSIC MAJOR IN COLLEGE ,BEING IN CHARGE OF THE ENLISTED MEN IN THE PLANT. SOMEBODY GAVE YOU THE TITLE "WATCH OFFICER". YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING AND YOU DON'T HAVE THE RESPECT OF THE MEN.

[Bfjohnson]

Ouch! My ears!

Anyway, I truly see your point in that RHW. I've dealt with enough Watch Officers in my time to understand exactly where you are coming from.

It really is good to see that future prospects look really good. It gives me a very positive attitude towards the future and what might be...

This site has certainly proved to be an asset that I will continue to monitor and use. I think I'll head off to the "getting in" section and see if I can be of assistance there!

One thing I have noticed in looking at the sites that were recommended, is that I didn't get a whole lot of hits on NLO jobs. Is it just my timing, or is that normal?

[PWHoppe]

RHW,

Please try to be respectful in your comments, even if you don't think to highly of their ideas. The guy was just asking about a program he had heard of and apparently knows nothing about. Nobody will accuse you of candy coating it at least

BTW typing in all caps is the internet version of yelling at someone, please try to refrain from that. I'm sure you don't mean to yell at them. Thanks.

[Fermi2]

INSTANT SRO IS A JOKE. EVERYBODY WHO WORKS AT THE PLANT WILL LAUGH AT YOUR ASS AND MAKE JOKES. YOU DIDN'T EARN THE TITLE, YOU DIDN'T LEARN THE PLANT, YOU DIDN'T PAY YOUR DUES.

THAT'S LIKE AN OFFICER IN THE NUKE NAVY THAT WAS A MUSIC MAJOR IN COLLEGE ,BEING IN CHARGE OF THE ENLISTED MEN IN THE PLANT. SOMEBODY GAVE YOU THE TITLE "WATCH OFFICER". YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING AND YOU DON'T HAVE THE RESPECT OF THE MEN.

That's not true at all. You earn respect by how you treat people and how you know your limitations and not by your title. Some of the people I've respected most are Instant SROs. The knoweledge they get depends on how much they apply themselves to learning the plant. In todays day and age an SRO doesn't necessarily need the in depth technical knowledge as in the old days because most utulities want a different skill set. One of the very best SROs I ever knew was an Instant SRO.

As for officers in the Navy, most enlisted guys had no idea what their officers majored in or what their degrees were in. The very best officer I ever worked for, and who had the most respect on my boat was a Shakespearean Literature major. He knew how to treat people and knew the plant very well.

Heck by your theory any enlisted guy who shouldn't get respect because many of them had no technical background before enlisting.

BfJohnson, If you get the chance to get asn Instant SRO Job take it. The training program will give you the basic skills you need, the rest all depends on how you apply those skills and how you deal with your fellow operators. I'm not saying it won't be tough and you won't be starting behind the curve, but I assure you, as an Operator for 16 years in this industry RHW has no idea what he's talking about. Yes in my view starting at NLO and working up is the best way to go, however if offered an SRO job I certainly wouldn't turn it down. If you have a good attitude you'll be ok.

Mike

[Roll Tide]

One thing I have noticed in looking at the sites that were recommended, is that I didn't get a whole lot of hits on NLO jobs. Is it just my timing, or is that normal?

Glad you like the site. If you look at the jobs posted, the vast majority are contract positions. There are probably as many permanent utility NLO jobs posted here as other permanent positions. But, as I found out for a few years, there aren't many opportunities for contract operator.

[shayne]

It goes the other way also.  I have worked with some officers with Engineering Degrees that were just as clueless about operating or understand the plant.

Usually NLO jobs are posted and filled every fuel cycle.  So most companies hire about every 18 or 24 months.  So if you are looking at one facility, it could be a while before jobs are posted.  Being flexible will give you the most opportunities for employment.

As far as operator jobs, have you considered fossil plants or hydro?  Many other plants pay just as well without the stress and other headaches as Nuclear.

[WIFEY26525]

all i'm saying is that "instant sro" is mostly a mistake unless they are assigned to some other job besides the control room.

as a navy nuke MM1 and then a RO and HP in commercial power plants, i can definitely say i would be "miffed" if some college boy with a liberal arts degree gets six months OJT and then is my boss, when i've been doing the job for 25 years ! they would get no respect from me unless they realized they needed us worker bees to train them alot more.

they can be in charge as long as they admit their ignorance.

[Roll Tide]

I have to agree with RHW that I have seen people unsuccessful in this format. Of course, I have seen engineers get their heads handed to them as well.

Still, if a former enlisted Navy Nuke gets a creditable (not credible, I know the difference) degree and then gets into an Instant SRO program he should be in good shape. He will have to work harder than the NLO getting an upgrade, but he will have the tools to be successful.

If I may let my biases show for a moment, I would prefer to work for that person over a former Navy Officer, especially if he was not a Sub Nuke!

[Bfjohnson]

Looking back at my first tour on the USS Nimitz, I can definately agree that the best watch officers were those that we "trained in", as well as one that was an LDO and former Chief. Our best "shutdown" watch officers were Enlisted as well. I had the good fortune of having a young lieutenant as a watch officer that I got along with very well. I had been operating the plant for just over four years when he came on board as my new watch officer. He and I had an understanding, and this is what I told him.

"My job is to tell you everything I am going to do to the panel before I do it. Your job is to say 'very well' to everything I tell you I am going to do. If we do it this way, we will be the best watch section in the department."

Wouldn't you know, we had the highest scores on our ORSE of any watch section in Reactor Department. Even commissioned officers can be serviceable if taught properly! 

I like the idea of hooking up with an NLO position, and working my way up. That is how I've done it in the Navy, and I look forward to the opportunity to prove myself once again. I appreciate the advice in regards to Union vs. Non-Union. I would hate to come into a position, ready and motivated to be the very best at what I do, only to be held back from moving up the ladder, due to seniority issues. Especially with the kind of time frame that has been mentioned. (7 to 15 years) I expect a lot from myself, and would want to be in a position to be rewarded for my efforts.