NPUA

[SoCal]

Split contract? --- WHO CARES?!?!
We all deserve the pay raise we've needed for the past 10-20 years right?!?!
Other union craft have been getting their due for years, haven't they?
How many outages have we all been to that have the union trades making more than us - PLUS the bennies?
Too many for me to count, that's for sure.
Which job are you going to take?  The higher paying one of course!
And what happens when EVERYONE wants to work ONLY for the higher paying union/company?  That's right, the competitors must follow or go quietly into the night.  And we all start getting what we have deserved for a very long time.
Though this will only last as long as we all support the people/union/company that will consistently fight for giving us our fair share.  Falter in this and things will go back to the old ways (pay and standard practices in general) - YOU CAN GAURANTEE IT.
Sometime ago the thinking in the nuke world changed to, "You all are lucky to have jobs in the first place - you all need us."  This is WRONG.  truth is "They need us."  Without us my fellow RadPro's, they cannot do what they need to do every 18-24 months.  They must be reminded of it now.
Christ, we are not being greedy are we?  I think we all just want what is fair as far as skilled trades go.  Because we ARE A SKILLED TRADE - aren't we?!?!  Go ahead and fire away everyone, I appreciate ALL feedback.  God bless and good night....

[Already Gone]

Anybody want to guess which techs will be laid off first?
Split contract with one paying higher than the other means don't pay for your hotel by the week.  Of course, if both contracts pay the same....  there will be non-union techs making the same $40 and thumbing their noses at the members.  Always happens that way. 

Will the NPUA take punitive action against members who work non-union?  This is a long-standing practice of unions that is just about necessary to maintain the solidarity of the membership.  So, my question still stands -- if you work this contract for Spectrum, and they don't get another contract for the rest of the year, will the NPUA members be allowed to work for Bartlett and damage the union, or will they be banned from non-union work at the risk of losing their membership?

It is a tough question to answer, but only ONE answer is going to come out of a REAL union.  Are they willing to say it out loud?  Of course, a REAL union would also be trying to organize the Bartlett and Atlantic employees instead of steering them to other companies.  That is what real unions do.  Getting into bed with one company to help them drive down the competition.... real unions don't do that.

So, let's see which this one is.  Has anyone out there been approached by them to organize Bartlett or Atlantic employees?   HMMMMM??

[Buddy Sorrell]

I'm already making +$40/hr as a Sr. HP this fall, all without a stinking union.

[HenryBlack]

I was just reading all these posts again and was thinking whether or not I could afford to work 4 weeks every two years and still maintain my lifestyle. I doubt if I could. I myself was wondering why the NPUA hasn't tried to get contracts with Bartlett and Atlantic along with Spectrum and organize all the Techs in the industry. I have recieved only one e-mail from NPUA and when I didn't answer it they never sent anything else. I personally have been a member of a Union ( retail clerks international) when I was younger. I know a little bit about how unions run, Usually the union would try to get workers(Techs) to sign a card agreeing to join and then they would go to the company, that the techs work for ,and present to them. Now with that being said it seems to me that Spectrum and the NPUA has a contract or agreement of some type. Which is good but only if Spectrum can bid on every job out there and get enough work to keep people working at least as much as Bartlett or Atlantic is now. It will take months or maybe even years for that to happen because a lot of contracts are already signed with the other companies for the spring and fall seasons next year. It seems to me that the NPUA should be approaching all Techs and letting us know what is in this for us in the future. I haven't seen anything about the "contract" with Spectrum except pay rates and start and stop dates. That isn't enough for me to jump on the bandwagon. I don't make as much maybe as a Spectrum Tech does but at least I have only collected 5 weeks of unemployment since 1995. Work hard, be on time and don't lay out and you will keep working too if you want to.

[SoCal]

Well said Frank!  I know you wanted to type that all out in caps - didn't you!  C'mon, admit it :O)
Beer & Frank - in a nutshell:
1.  The reason that the NPUA went with Spectrum is not to try to run somebody else out of business or to drive up wages.  It is because
     Bartlett/Atlantic did NOT want anything to do with the NPUA.  Hell, the only division of Atlantic that is not union right now
     is the RP one!  Pull your heads out of the sand.
2.  Yes, bart/atl has contracts beyond this year with some of the other utilities.  Wolf Creek was one of them.  Remember?!?!  As I said in
     my last post, as long as we support the union/company that gives us what we deserve, the only ones left standing will be the ones
     that give us what we deserve.
3.  I'm sure that if you ask any of the union members or its management if they care who/how/where they get their fair wages from (be it the
     NPUA, Spectrum, Bartlett, Atlantic), they couldn't give a rat's a--.  Just as long as they get them (this includes insurance, pension, etc...).
4.  The isn't really a even question of pro or anti union really & there is no vendetta against bart or atl either.  It's a question of getting what
     we deserve.  If bart/atl had started doing that in the first place, the NPUA would have never been formed.

     I'll tell everyone this though; the NPUA and Spectrum stepped up to the plate first though.  And I didn't see bart/atl do anything to participate, negotiate, contact, or reply in any way, shape, or form to say, "Hey guys your right, it's time for a change so let's talk".  Best regards all... (BTW, Frank was right you know.  Read his posts again only more slowly this time).

[ruth13]

Will the NPUA take punitive action against members who work non-union?  This is a long-standing practice of unions that is just about necessary to maintain the solidarity of the membership.  So, my question still stands -- if you work this contract for Spectrum, and they don't get another contract for the rest of the year, will the NPUA members be allowed to work for Bartlett and damage the union, or will they be banned from non-union work at the risk of losing their membership?

My guess is that it will be the other way around - the techs who work with Spectrum are most likely to be "banned" by Bartlett/Atlantic.....
I hope not...

[thenukeman]

You can hire who you want for outages.  I would hire my most loyal techs then give crumbs to the rest if I had them.  I would not blame Bartlett or Atlantic for doing this.  Just smart business, not antiunion.

[Camella Black]

First let me say, I am pro Union and always have been. Now to my questions...

1. For those of you who will be fortunate enough to work this outage with Spectrum/NPUA what are your plans for afterwards? Are you going to go elsewhere for the lower wages paid by the majority of the companies or are you going to sit at home and wait until they all come around and pay what Spectrum does?

2. I'd like to see Beercourts question answered:

"Will the NPUA take punitive action against members who work non-union?  This is a long-standing practice of unions that is just about necessary to maintain the solidarity of the membership.  So, my question still stands -- if you work this contract for Spectrum, and they don't get another contract for the rest of the year, will the NPUA members be allowed to work for Bartlett and damage the union, or will they be banned from non-union work at the risk of losing their membership?"

[SoCal]

Three minutes of self-initiated research would have answered that question.

If it looks like a bear, acts like a bear, & sounds like a bear - well, you know...

that has yet to be seen, after filling out info requests at the NPUA website, the focus of dialogue was what, when and how to pay my dues,...not my credentials,...

Like you said, "Three minutes of self-initiated research...".  There's also the telephone if you can't seem to find your answer.

not a balanced comparison, Diablo seriously scrutinizes which techs work Diablo, not anybody is accepted to fill those slots, 40/month is no guarantee that Diablo will accept your resume when proferred via the NPUA, but if you have seniority, Diablo should be guaranteed to you, otherwise the union fails one of it's fundamental precepts,.....

First, there will be scrutiny, rest assured.  Second, remember the union is brand new.  Seniority comes into play after each initial contract thereby succeeding at one of its fundamental precepts.

[SoCal]

still seems a bit skewed to pay union RP techs 40/hr and union Reactor Operators 28/hour

Has anyone ever heard of the saying that went something like, "There are a few things in life you should not go cheap on such as heart surgery, brakes for your car, etc..."?  Sounds like those RO's are dealing with some of same things we are right now.  Unless of course it's somewhere where the cost of living is phenomenally low.

Camella, if Spectrum does not have another contract, we all must do what we have to to support ourselves and families.  Take a job if you need to but TRY to support those who will treat you FAIRLY first.  There are plenty of jobs other jobs out there until the NPUA gets more work.  Understand that change is always painful and some sacrifices have to be made.  Believe me that it's partly because of some people's personal sacrifices that we are seeing the some of pay increases across the board.  As for your other Q, you won't be punished for working for nonunion jobs.  As I said you should try to support those with your best interests in mind first.  Understand that you can't just join and refuse EVERY job and not work for the union at all either.  Just paying dues will not cut it.  You have to support what you believe in and believe what you support.  If you talk the talk, then walk the walk and stand up for yourself (that was for everyone in general, not just you Camella).  :O)

[SoCal]

I'd like an answer to a few of my question now (with answers and not excuses).
Again, this is not pro union but more like pro what's best for all of us in general.

1.  Why do techs continue to accept substandard wages and benefits across the board when there ARE other options out there to increase their quality of life (something that has not happened in the past 15-20 years)?
2.  Why won't techs stand up for themselves and support change that is better for them in every facet and gives them what some have NEVER had (pensions, insurance, better quality of life, etc...) - at least as individuals?
3.  Why don't techs reach for that brass ring that's right in front of them right now when all the answers to these questions are being answered or are at least available to them?
4.  Why would anyone who is a proponent for change go back to work for someone who is not for that change?  Why would you do that if you can have it good, wether it be with the union or not?

I bet if you could ask some of the techs who have some of these better paying jobs right now (non union), if they would go back to work for someone who treats them unfairly again, they would unanimously answer no way.

Why don't we all stand up for ourselves right now and only go to work for employers who are ready to make that change(union or non union)?
God Bless and good luck to everyone...  :O)

[Already Gone]

This is very good discussion.  Certainly, there will be a lot of questions that will be answered as time progresses, and not before that.

There is also going to be a lot of pain and sacrifice on the part of the members.  You don't get anything for free.  The cost of a strong union is paid by the members.  It remains to be seen if they will continue to be willing to pay it.

If you signed on to Wolf Creek just to get that one hit at $40/hr and go right to work for the non-union companies after that, your union will not survive.  Maybe there will be a small niche for the few who stick it out.  They will continue to make the big bucks on the few jobs as backup contracts.  The end-of-year total compensation may be no better than they are getting now, but will come from fewer weeks of work at fewer places.

For the individual tech, this is a small opportunity.  Thirty-four people will, for a short while, get what they have been seeking for a long time.  But, for the profession as a whole, this is small potatoes at this point.  One employer, with half of a contract, is a good start and nothing more.  To keep it going and growing, the individual techs will have to make a commitment.  They will have to face the prospect of no work for a while.  Standing firm often means standing in a lonely, exposed place.  Standing firm together makes a big difference, but you have to rely on others to join you in your resolve.  Can you?  Will your brothers and sisters be willing to stand with you, or will they all look out for themselves?  If your union allows them to remain in good standing while they work for the non-union shops, it is only breaking its own back.

If the NPUA is a good thing -- and I am not denying that it could be -- you have to commit to it wholly or it won't last.  It is too early at this point to know who will do that.  It is too soon to know if it is all true.  The proof of the pudding, as they say, is in the eating.

Let's have this talk again in December.  Lets see how many of the 34 are still on the team and how many have joined them.

Of course Bartlett and Atlantic have wanted nothing to do with this.  That is no news.  They haven't had a reason to engage the NPUA in discussions.  First of all, because their employees have not signed the cards to begin the process, and secondly because they don't have much to fear at this point from a startup outfit.  Give them a reason to want to be involved.  If they start losing work because they have no employees to staff their contracts, they have a few options to fix that.  One of which will be to negotiate the return of their best techs.  But if this is only a temporary setback they will not enter into a permanent solution.  Only the techs decide whether this is temporary or permanent.  If you want to get Bartlett and Atlantic to take you seriously, you need to take away their other options.  Right now, they have plenty of those.  They can sit and wait for their people to return.  They can grow their employee database by hiring and training new people.  They can offer a better product than their unionized competition.  They can negotiate with NPUA.  Or, they can do any and all of the above.  

If you have a lock on the most, best-trained, best-performing technicians, you take away all other options and they have to play at your level or quit.  On the other hand, if you have a tenuous hold on a few techs who are only in it for the money, they'll eat your lunch for you.

All this is why I have been so skeptical about this venture.  Right now, the ENTIRE discussion is about numbers of people and the price that it will take to get those numbers.  It has to be about quality.  A premium product demands a premium price.  Bulk quantities are always sold at a discount.  Decide once and for all which you are offering and stand on that.

If you are a member of this union, give the best you have to offer and demand it from your co-workers.  They represent you, and you represent them.  Make yourself worth the higher price and you will continue to get what you are willing to earn.

But, if you think for a minute that you "deserve" the better pay and treatment while you continue to perform at the level of the current tech population, get a clue.

[SoCal]

Marssim, it was not meant to be ANY kind of insult.
I don't operate that way.
I apologize for any misunderstanding.

[HenryBlack]

I'd like an answer to a few of my question now (with answers and not excuses).
Again, this is not pro union but more like pro what's best for all of us in general.

1.  Why do techs continue to accept substandard wages and benefits across the board when there ARE other options out there to increase their quality of life (something that has not happened in the past 15-20 years)?
2.  Why won't techs stand up for themselves and support change that is better for them in every facet and gives them what some have NEVER had (pensions, insurance, better quality of life, etc...) - at least as individuals?
3.  Why don't techs reach for that brass ring that's right in front of them right now when all the answers to these questions are being answered or are at least available to them?
4.  Why would anyone who is a proponent for change go back to work for someone who is not for that change?  Why would you do that if you can have it good, wether it be with the union or not?

1. Techs accept jobs wherever they can get them because they have bills to pay and need more than Minimum wage to pay them. Up until this week there were fewer choices  and even with the Spectrum contract there are still few choices. It's good that Spectrum has a high paying contract with the NPUA backing; however with 59 slots that are pretty much filled already that leaves about 99% of the techs out in the cold with no other choice. Work where you can or be homeless.
2. Same as answer to 1.
3. Same as answer to 1.
4. Same as answer to 1.
I was part of the walkout that was held in 1990 while working at Plant Hatch. I know that was a different type deal but the bottom line is still the same. Techs have to pay bills and eat to live. People couldn't hold out then and they can't hold out now and the Big Companies know this. If Spectrum can somehow get most of the back-ups, then more and more folks would be able to hold out a few weeks waiting for the back-up to bring them in. I don't think 59 positions for 900(just a guess) techs is all that great. I would love to be union and work where I wanted to and make millions of dollars but to me it just seems like it is going to take a long time for that to happen. I hope we all last long enough to see it.

  by the way henry have you ever been on the npua website?just curious:)

Yes, I visit the website on a regular basis and as a matter of fact I posed a question on Tuesday of this week through the sites e-mail link. I did this because someone here recommended that I go straight to the Horses mouth for an answer. So I did. The site said I would have and answer within 2 to 3 days. This is day 3 and I am still waiting.

[Brett LaVigne]

still seems a bit skewed to pay union RP techs 40/hr and union Reactor Operators 28/hour

lemme see; skin contamination prevention versus core meltdown prevention,...hmmmmmmm   

(sic)

Excellent point on behalf of the Reactor Operators. They should be fighting too!

Frank and Socal, right on, thanks for posting.

[SoCal]

1. Techs accept jobs wherever they can get them because they have bills to pay and need more than Minimum wage to pay them. Up until this week there were fewer choices  and even with the Spectrum contract there are still few choices. It's good that Spectrum has a high paying contract with the NPUA backing; however with 59 slots that are pretty much filled already that leaves about 99% of the techs out in the cold with no other choice. Work where you can or be homeless.

  This is ABSOLUTELTY NOT TRUE.  There have been PLENTY of choices this summer and there still are.  There are OTHER choices & techs do not have to be left out in the cold or be homeless neither.
  Remember all out there who read this.  Like I've REPEATEDLY said before; this is not so much about the union as it is to NOT SUPPORT employers who will support change and start treating us all as skilled or professional workers.  Just like any other skilled trade.  The NPUA & Spectrum just happen to be the first to step up to the plate and bat for us.  So WHY NOT support them first?
  There are a ton of jobs out there right now paying seniors anywhere from 30.00-38.00/hr and 80-180/day with benefits!  And these are not with either bartlett nor atlantic.  I know because I have been contacted by almost all of them and I've networked for the rest starting back in May.  There are too many examples to list here & I'm sure ANY true road tech worth his/her salt know about these also because even while gainfully employed, you ALWAYS have your ear to the ground prospecting for your next job (if you want/need one that is).
  So with these other options in the front of your mind, I'm still waiting for decent answers to my questions...
  Take care all...

[SoCal]

  Like you Marssim, I'm not picking a fight either .  But it does sound like you are whining a lot though.
  You know, if you spent half as much time supporting ANY entity that will benefit your quality of life as you do complaining about issues (deconner & jr pay), that will probably never affect you for the rest of your life, you would be a great benefit to your fellow RP techs.
  As it is, you sound like (and yes, I could be wrong), one of the reasons ALL RP techs do NOT enjoy the quality of life enjoyed by other professionals/skilled workers in similar lines of work.
  So why don't you just stop worrying, complaining, & commenting on it?  I mean if you are against an increase in all of your fellow techs' way of life, why don't you just say so?
  I'll be the first to admit that the NPUA/Spectrum deal may not be perfect, but NOTHING IS - is it?  Can you name me any union or company (related to our field of course), that is?  I'd like to hear about it.  Just like this isn't the perfect country on Earth, but damn sure if it isn't the best one there is.  So if your looking for perfection, that's fine.  Just go somewhere else and find it because I admit that it isn't here.
  With due respect...
P.S.  I'm still waiting for anyone to answer my questions  :O)

[HydroDave63]

  Like you Marssim, I'm not picking a fight either .  But it does sound like you are whining a lot though.
  You know, if you spent half as much time

1. Yes, that is picking a fight

2. Marssim has more time on the crapper in the RCA than you do on this forum.... why not simply take a deep breath, and see that the questions being raised by BC, Marssim and others are questions that other all-star techs (that you NEED to attract to make this work) have been asking. Instead of making it your personal deal, why not look at it as free batting practice from people whose kung-fu is stronger than yours?

BTW, I'll spare you the ad-hominem reply, I'm a shop steward where I work, and your "props" are pretty much fitting the mold of why people inherently dislike union organizers.

[Nuclear NASCAR]

An equal percentage for increases in pay compensation would be an analogous nod of respect to the juniors and deconners that are either working their way up or are happy where they are at.

At least that's my take on part of what a union should be. It appears I would be a lousy union executive, steward or negotiator.

Marssim you would make a great steward, executive, or negotiator.  If you sacrifice the lower paid workers for the sake of those making more you not only slap them in the face but you run the likelihood of losing their support and eventually your Union. 

On-topic; I'd like to believe that this is the start of something good.  In this case I'm going to defer to hindsight rather than make predictions. 

[Rennhack]

Maybe there would be less contractors if some of the house techs would get off their ass's and cover a job once in awhile?

How does that message help anything?  It's just argumentative.

AND you are off topic, there was nothing in there about NPUA.

All off topics will be deleted.

[Already Gone]

    You know, if you spent half as much time supporting ANY entity that will benefit your quality of life as you do complaining about issues (deconner & jr pay), that will probably never affect you for the rest of your life, you would be a great benefit to your fellow RP techs....

  ...As it is, you sound like (and yes, I could be wrong), one of the reasons ALL RP techs do NOT enjoy the quality of life enjoyed by other professionals/skilled workers in similar lines of work.
 

I find that to be a contradiction.  The "I got the deal I wanted, so screw you" mentality of the contract RP workforce is the real reason.  The lack of solidarity and unwillingness to make a short-term personal sacrifice for the benefit of the group as a whole is the best tool that the other side has in keeping the compensation package as cheap as they have for all this time.

Believe it or not, what you are proposing here on this topic is as divisive as it can get when it comes to organizing a profession or trade into a union.  You are scolding Marssim for looking to the welfare of those outside his own paygrade when you really need the support of all those people in the lower classifications.  After all, they are the future members of the top tier.  If you don't support them now, you won't have them later.

But, I don't think you really mean to do that.  If you were in it just for yourself, why would you be here arguing for this union when you could just take your good deal and relax?  You wouldn't be trying to sell this idea unless you realized the obvious fact that you need to garner a large base of support from the tech population.

This is a process.  It is not static by any means.  NPUA has a foot in the door.  That is all.  For it to work, there needs to be widespread support for it at every level.  If you don't get, hold, and grow that support you will one day be reminiscing about that one outage at Wolf Creek when you got a good check every week for a month and calling it "the good old days."

I've had my misgivings about this arrangement from the start, and I won't repeat them here.  You can scroll back to read them.  But, I will repeat that it is not a good idea to align the union with one company - any one company.  The very fact that anyone on this forum refers to Spectrum/NPUA as a single entity sends warning signals through my brain as if I had touched a hot stove.

[Chimera]

Dang, Marrsimm . . . yeah . . . what you said!!!!!

I tend to be skeptical of unions and their activities.  This comes from many decades of observing their organizing and striking tactics - and SEIU's current shannigans don't help my perceptions of union activities at all.

An effective brotherhood that all the "body shops" and utilities would respect is something worth considering.  I'm still not seeing that.  What I'm seeing is an opportunistic outfit using the current tech shortage to jump in.  How many of those techs that jumped onto Spectrum's band wagon had already agreed to work for a different company and are only following the money now?  This doesn't appear to be significantly different than what happened a few years ago when a few utilities upped their billing rates to get techs to jump their current contracts to go and support their outages.

I'm not looking for an outfit who's victory cry is based on a temporary situation.  But I like Marrsimm ideas a whole lot.  Let me hear more of that and I just might change my mind.

[Longtime Nuke]

What a sad thread.

Five years and you all either have house jobs, or are greeting at Walmart. 

"Remember when Kevin promised $40/hr, 3 in - 3 out, travel pay, govt diem, meals, women...?  And we jerked each other on Nukeworker about how important we all thought we were?  What happened?  Now they do 20 day outages with all house resources and electronic coverage."

Supersize that, sir?

[MeterSwangin]

I find that to be a contradiction.  The "I got the deal I wanted, so screw you" mentality of the contract RP workforce is the real reason.  The lack of solidarity and unwillingness to make a short-term personal sacrifice for the benefit of the group as a whole is the best tool that the other side has in keeping the compensation package as cheap as they have for all this time.

Well said, but off the mark.

First of all, the compensation package is not presently "cheap."  With diem, wages, and markup utilities pay more for semi-skilled RP travelers
than is paid for skilled teachers, cops, or nurses.

There is absolutely no solidarity...true enough.  But the die cast in deeper respects.  The industry is changing.  Maturing.  Adapting.  The guys running the show are not stupid.  Doing without expensive RP travelers won't be hard.  The current "crisis" will just accelerate the inevitable.

[Old HP]

It is nice to see the pay go up, although at this time it is more a result of basic economics (supply & demand) than union or if one company has better workers than the other.
It is also a time when those techs( that end up at a job which is only half staffed ) really have to be carefull not to be pushed by management expectations that the work will go as scheduled with or without proper coverage. Try not to get pushed into covering 2 or 3 constant coverage jobs at one time as it will happen.
Remember what Clint Eastwood said " A tech has got to know his (or her) limitations"

Be carefull out there this fall season..

                                                        Old HP