Rent a tech Union debate

[klsas]

For Sale: 1 horse. Well fed but extremely beaten.

JJ - As the spring season starts, what is your proposal to get cards distributed? It is probably time to get the cards out and by the end of the season, you will know where the idea stands. The IBEW or whoever needs to determine the class that would be represented. Commercial techs? DOE techs? some of each? two separate groups? Until it is decided who would be eligible for what, there is no way of knowing when a majority is reached. The longer the talk goes on with no action, you stand the chance of alienating those people on the fence. Kind of like the head-on commercial, it makes you sick after a while. Just a suggestion.

Keith

[thenukeman]

I got this from a web site, How things work.
One of the most notorious Mafia schemes was the infiltration of labor unions. For several decades, it is believed that every major construction project in New York City was controlled by the Mafia. Mobsters paid off or threatened union leaders to get a piece of the action whenever a union group got a construction job, and they sometimes made their way into the ranks of leadership themselves. And once the Mafia had its grip firmly on a union, it could control an entire industry. Mafioso could get workers to slow or halt construction if contractors or developers didn't make the right payoffs, and they had access to huge union pension funds. At one point, the Mafia could have brought nearly all construction and shipping in the United States to a halt. But the last 20 years have seen the federal government crack down on Mafia-union connections to a great extent.

Maybe I am 20 years behind and the Mafia does not control as much , I doubt it.
like I said before, No union , forget About it. No chance that my pension or my vote controled by anyone.

[jjordan]

For Sale: 1 horse. Well fed but extremely beaten.

JJ - As the spring season starts, what is your proposal to get cards distributed? It is probably time to get the cards out and by the end of the season, you will know where the idea stands. The IBEW or whoever needs to determine the class that would be represented. Commercial techs? DOE techs? some of each? two separate groups? Until it is decided who would be eligible for what, there is no way of knowing when a majority is reached. The longer the talk goes on with no action, you stand the chance of alienating those people on the fence. Kind of like the head-on commercial, it makes you sick after a while. Just a suggestion.

Keith

Keith,
I know that now is the time to get this started, and have been trying to convey this to the powers that be. Once again you mention DOE, forget the DOE! They will have a different venue. Lots are already uninon. The DOE sites are permenant and will be handled differently, just like house techs at commercial sites. I'll let everyone know what's going on when I'm informed. I'm a little out of the loop omn this, since I don't have a dog in this fight, but I do know who to call to find out what's going on.
Thanks,
JJ

[jjordan]

I got this from a web site, How things work.
One of the most notorious Mafia schemes was the infiltration of labor unions. For several decades, it is believed that every major construction project in New York City was controlled by the Mafia. Mobsters paid off or threatened union leaders to get a piece of the action whenever a union group got a construction job, and they sometimes made their way into the ranks of leadership themselves. And once the Mafia had its grip firmly on a union, it could control an entire industry. Mafioso could get workers to slow or halt construction if contractors or developers didn't make the right payoffs, and they had access to huge union pension funds. At one point, the Mafia could have brought nearly all construction and shipping in the United States to a halt. But the last 20 years have seen the federal government crack down on Mafia-union connections to a great extent.

Maybe I am 20 years behind and the Mafia does not control as much , I doubt it.
like I said before, No union , forget About it. No chance that my pension or my vote controled by anyone.

Maybe the mafia controls the locals in NY, this would be because of a majority of the union voters belong to that brotherhood too. Hey I like pizza too, and can buy a lot more with extra toppings too with the extra money they get me.The IBEW international is in DC, and I didn't notice a lot of names ending with vowels. whatever you want to believe, no problem. If you're a road tech, I just have 1 question for you. What pension are you refering to?
JJ

[thenukeman]

I have 401 K's that have been matched by my employer. I also have a state employees pension.  No one tells me how to invest or controls MY Money. The state controls my state pension. This is better than crumbs you may get if you retire and if you do not die first.  If I croak my wife will have access to alot more money than I believe a union would give her. If a union goes bankrupt or misappropriates your money by giving it to politicians, Mafia or other people who think they are entitled to your money, or just ripping it off you have 0.  Also if people wise up and vote out the union then what? Unionforgetaboutit. invest your own money if you are a roadie. Just my opinion.  Why worry about having yourpension ripped off.  I also see that the poll is showing against union. So maybe the roadies have the message already.

I hope the Mafia does not sendout anybody to break Renhacks knees for my posts. He is a good guy!!! 

[jjordan]

I have 401 K's that have been matched by my employer. I also have a state employees pension.  No one tells me how to invest or controls MY Money. The state controls my state pension. This is better than crumbs you may get if you retire and if you do not die first.  If I croak my wife will have access to alot more money than I believe a union would give her. If a union goes bankrupt or misappropriates your money by giving it to politicians, Mafia or other people who think they are entitled to your money, or just ripping it off you have 0.  Also if people wise up and vote out the union then what? Unionforgetaboutit. invest your own money if you are a roadie. Just my opinion.  Why worry about having yourpension ripped off.  I also see that the poll is showing against union. So maybe the roadies have the message already.

I hope the Mafia does not sendout anybody to break Renhacks knees for my posts. He is a good guy!!! 

OK, you said pension, not 401K. There is a difference. Now back 8 yrs ago, when I was a rent a tech, I had a 401K too. Bartlett had a good 401K through Fidelity, but as for company match, they only contributed $100 per year. Now back then Bartlett was the only one to offere a 401K at all. Now maybe there are more with a better match, some people will post and tell me what is currently offered. Now your pension from the state, that was real nice now wasn't it? I have a pension from a previous life, but wish I had one from the current one. You don't even have to worry about someone missapropriating or stealing the funds, because there aint any! There are a lot of new federal laws to prevent a lot of this. pension money is your money. if you withdraw from the union, whatever the reason, you will get the money you have comming to rollover into another apprpriate retirement fund. One thing you are correct on is the votes show that the few that voted, are against a union. Geuss what? Maybe some people other than management are watching this thread too. They may decide to save both their time and money. (yes they invest heavily in a campaign) if the poll shows way below 50%. Remember I said they like 65% or better. If you want a chance to vote, I'd reccomend heavily that you vote yes here. if you aren't a member, sign up and do this one thing to help yourself to a better life. This may be the last opportunity for representation. BTW no one tells me how to invest my money either. Except now Progress has told me that it would be better to put my money in a 401K instead of paying union dues. I'll pay the dues, thank you! My mother said I never listened very well. I guess mom is always right!
JJ

[RAD-GHOST]

I keep hearing Banjo's?  

[klsas]

For the record, the poll shows 75 total votes. That is less than 10% of the commercial road techs. You can't even make a guess which way it would go based on the few votes. That leaves about 800 that haven't voiced an opinion.

[jjordan]

For the record, the poll shows 75 total votes. That is less than 10% of the commercial road techs. You can't even make a guess which way it would go based on the few votes. That leaves about 800 that haven't voiced an opinion.

Keith,
My point exactly. If you look at the stats on this thread, there are a whole lot of views and only a few votes. I realize that the entire industry doesn't come here, but the one that do need to speak up.
Thanks,
JJ

[Imaginos]

For the record, the poll shows 75 total votes. That is less than 10% of the commercial road techs. You can't even make a guess which way it would go based on the few votes. That leaves about 800 that haven't voiced an opinion.

We probably should not assume that all voters are road techs, either...   

[SloGlo]

I have 401 K's that have been matched by my employer. I also have a state employees pension.  No one tells me how to invest or controls MY Money. The state controls my state pension. This is better than crumbs you may get if you retire and if you do not die first. 

state pension?  hmmmm, was that a union state job ya had?

[jjordan]

We probably should not assume that all voters are road techs, either...   

You are probably correct in that assumption, and some are probably supervision also.
JJ

[jjordan]

state pension?  hmmmm, was that a union state job ya had?

SloGlo,
Funny you should mention that. My mother was a State Employee, and had a real good pension. Sheis living on it now. She was union BTW. Oh poor dad didn't have one, so mom and her union have to keep him!
JJ

[thenukeman]

State Job not union, but still the same communistic agenda that unions have.  Did not give merit raises because someone may sue. Also those with more time were protected. Had one manager tell us that all he expected was the minimum. He told about 50 of us that in a meeting.  Unions encourage mediocrity, laziness, I do not care attitude, Even worse, It does not matter if you a a good worker if you were hired last you will be fired first attitude.  Then people see this and just give up. Iseen this with my own eyes.  They had one union operator complain about just filling out tags, She did not move equipment or do the work like the others.  She went to the respirator shack to hand out respirators while others worked hard.  This was also known as the sleep shack where all the loser scum union workers went who could not or would not work. Which made the others even madder.  Eventually union was pushed off site.  Why would anyone want a union is beyond me.

[Already Gone]

I've read about all the misinformed, uninformed, insipid, vacuous bulls**t that I can stand on this topic.
Before I begin, I feel it necessary to state that I am not currently an active member of any union.  I work with union craftpersons all the time, and I have spent most of my life since leaving the Navy in non-union jobs.

The supposed correlation between union membership and laziness and incompetence is - as politely as I can put it - the biggest load of crap ever hauled over land or sea. 

If you have EVER worked as a contract HP tech for Bartlett or Numanco (union or non-union) you have undoubtedly worked with very many of the same people as I have.  If you were not so heavily medicated that you couldn't recognize your own mother, you HAD to have noticed the several strata of employees among the HP/decon staff at those jobs.

There are the so-called "heavy-hitters" - a title earned by any tech who shows up for all his or her scheduled days of work, does his or her share of the work, does not need to be held by the hand to do a survey or cover a job, leaves the work area as good or better than he or she found it, relieves on time or early, stays until relieved ... etc.

There are the "junior seniors" who have been around long enough to be ANSI 3.1, but have refused to learn anything not necessary to pass the NEU exam or to remember it any longer than the day of the exam.  They can't calculate an air sample, or figure out how long it will take a worker to get a dose alarm in a high rad area, but you can't tell them anything because they figure that they have nothing to learn.

There are the "slugs" who may be as technically proficient as the heavy hitter, or as clueless as the junior-senior, but it doesn't matter because they are rarely around to prove it.  They relieve late, leave early, call in sick whem they aren't sick, claim some kind of physical ailment that prevents them from climbing ladders, wearing respirators, wearing plastics, lifting anything heavier than an RO-2, being in containment for more than 6 hours out of any 12 hour shift, ... etc.

If it is unions who protect the lazy and incompetent, then we've all been union members all this time without knowing it.

The craftpersons with whom I have been working for the past 3 years, are all union members.  They come to work on time, work until dismissed by their foremen, take only authorized breaks and meals, and hit it as hard as it takes during work hours.  They get tired and filthy and don't complain.

The superintendents who hire them know who the useless ones are and let them go first.  They are able to hire by name in a lot of cases to get the better workers - leaving the slugs on the bench.

I have seen people come over from working for another contractor to working for us on the same site.  They go from foot-draggers to hard workers within the space of a day.  The difference is in the way their employers treat them - period.
When you give your employees the respect they deserve, treat them as you would want to be treated, and pay them a fair wage, you'll get the best out of them.  If you expect the minimum, pay the minimum, and treat people like children, you will get no better than you deserve.

If you don't want to join a union - don't join a union.  That is your right as an American.  But all this talk about the Mafia, and protecting the jobs of the lazy and incompetent being your reasons to dislike unions is all coming straight out of your a$$.  Don't talk about things you don't know about, and you won't have this problem.

[retired nuke]

I've read about all the misinformed, uninformed, insipid, vacuous bullshit that I can stand on this topic.

-

The supposed correlation between union membership and laziness and incompetence is - as politely as I can put it - the biggest load of crap ever hauled over land or sea. 

-

If you don't want to join a union - don't join a union.  That is your right as an American.  But all this talk about the Mafia, and protecting the jobs of the lazy and incompetent being your reasons to dislike unions is all coming straight out of your a$$.  Don't talk about things you don't know about, and you won't have this problem.

Absolutely awsome rant - 1000% right
Karma to ya

[Marlin]

I've read about all the misinformed, uninformed, insipid, vacuous bullshit that I can stand on this topic.
Before I begin, I feel it necessary to state that I am not currently an active member of any union.  I work with union craftpersons all the time, and I have spent most of my life since leaving the Navy in non-union jobs.

The supposed correlation between union membership and laziness and incompetence is - as politely as I can put it - the biggest load of crap ever hauled over land or sea. 

If you have EVER worked as a contract HP tech for Bartlett or Numanco (union or non-union) you have undoubtedly worked with very many of the same people as I have.  If you were not so heavily medicated that you couldn't recognize your own mother, you HAD to have noticed the several strata of employees among the HP/decon staff at those jobs.

There are the so-called "heavy-hitters" - a title earned by any tech who shows up for all his or her scheduled days of work, does his or her share of the work, does not need to be held by the hand to do a survey or cover a job, leaves the work area as good or better than he or she found it, relieves on time or early, stays until relieved ... etc.

There are the "junior seniors" who have been around long enough to be ANSI 3.1, but have refused to learn anything not necessary to pass the NEU exam or to remember it any longer than the day of the exam.  They can't calculate an air sample, or figure out how long it will take a worker to get a dose alarm in a high rad area, but you can't tell them anything because they figure that they have nothing to learn.

There are the "slugs" who may be as technically proficient as the heavy hitter, or as clueless as the junior-senior, but it doesn't matter because they are rarely around to prove it.  They relieve late, leave early, call in sick whem they aren't sick, claim some kind of physical ailment that prevents them from climbing ladders, wearing respirators, wearing plastics, lifting anything heavier than an RO-2, being in containment for more than 6 hours out of any 12 hour shift, ... etc.

If it is unions who protect the lazy and incompetent, then we've all been union members all this time without knowing it.

The craftpersons with whom I have been working for the past 3 years, are all union members.  They come to work on time, work until dismissed by their foremen, take only authorized breaks and meals, and hit it as hard as it takes during work hours.  They get tired and filthy and don't complain.

The superintendents who hire them know who the useless ones are and let them go first.  They are able to hire by name in a lot of cases to get the better workers - leaving the slugs on the bench.

I have seen people come over from working for another contractor to working for us on the same site.  They go from foot-draggers to hard workers within the space of a day.  The difference is in the way their employers treat them - period.
When you give your employees the respect they deserve, treat them as you would want to be treated, and pay them a fair wage, you'll get the best out of them.  If you expect the minimum, pay the minimum, and treat people like children, you will get no better than you deserve.

If you don't want to join a union - don't join a union.  That is your right as an American.  But all this talk about the Mafia, and protecting the jobs of the lazy and incompetent being your reasons to dislike unions is all coming straight out of your a$$.  Don't talk about things you don't know about, and you won't have this problem.

Dennis Miller would be proud  .

[Dave Warren]

No, actually, I was gonna go pro-union on this thing, until beer court started spewing all this venom and hate......

Beer, you must have too much time on your hands to read all these posts and let them penetrate your nervous system, like they obviously have.

When the uninformed have questions to ask and statements to make, telling them that their fears are coming straight out of their ass is a wonderful intimidation tactic, but probably won't warm them up to the new ideas that JJordan is trying to share with everyone.

Intimidation tactics are a staple of unions also, whether you want to hear it or not. Example: Outage at Com-Exelon in Illinois.

Take a break, Brother. Its not worth your time to try and do it that way. I lost all my karma when i tried to do that .....

[Marlin]

No, actually, I was gonna go pro-union on this thing, until beer court started spewing all this venom and hate......

Beer, you must have too much time on your hands to read all these posts and let them penetrate your nervous system, like they obviously have.

When the uninformed have questions to ask and statements to make, telling them that their fears are coming straight out of their ass is a wonderful intimidation tactic, but probably won't warm them up to the new ideas that JJordan is trying to share with everyone.

Intimidation tactics are a staple of unions also, whether you want to hear it or not. Example: Outage at Com-Exelon in Illinois.

Take a break, Brother. Its not worth your time to try and do it that way. I lost all my karma when i tried to do that .....

So far BeerCourt has been fairly balanced. His diatribe seems to be aimed at those who are not. His posts on this topic have restricted to his experiences and other valid information. Carte Blanche statements that unions are this and that in "black and white" terms seem more venomous and hateful than his rant on his perception of the current state of technicians. I don't always agree with him but I do respect his opinions especially when thay are as entertaining as this one.

[alphadude]

don't hate the game .. hate the players

[Dave Warren]

Marlin, did you say he was fairly balanced or "fair and balanced"?

There is a difference.......

[Marlin]

One being a Circus performer and the other a Fox News commentator? 

Fair and Balanced for this topic would be to allow periodic venting on both sides of the issue. This topic has stayed on topic and civil, for the most part, keeping it out of PolySci and it is still one of the fastest growing threads in the Forum.

[alphadude]

Poy sci = the study of hawaiian food?

[Marlin]

Poy sci = the study of hawaiian food?

With all of our unemployed comics, you figure they need a union? (Thanx its fixed)

[jjordan]

One being a Circus performer and the other a Fox News commentator? 

Fair and Balanced for this topic would be to allow periodic venting on both sides of the issue. This topic has stayed on topic and civil, for the most part, keeping it out of PoySci and it is still one of the fastest growing threads in the Forum.

This is a good thread, and everyone should have an opinion and be allowed to express it.For or against, it shouldn't matter! BeerCourt didn't attack anyone personally, like some are doing to him. I've gotten it too, but hey load up, I'll take all you've got. Beer is correct, you can't equivicate lazy with union. It's not right, and it's not fair.The IBEW doesn't promote lazy. On the contrary.They believe in a honest days work for an honest days pay.The lazy people are there, they're everywhere, union, and non union.They learn the system, and hide behind the protection that the union provides for everyone. The problem goes right back to lazy again.Some, not all of supervision are lazy! They acuse the union of protecting the slugs, instead of doing the work required to get rid of them. Because it's easier! Lets take it a little bit further. The reporters that cover stories on the union put out a good bit of erroneus information, because it's easier than doing research and digging to find the real story or culprit. Call it like ya see it! I see it the same way. There are lazy people all over, union and non union period. I worked as a union construction worker, and busted my tail. They told me "if you want big pay, you've gotta do big work" and by god we did! If they worked the HP's that hard, not many would make it to coffee break. I remember back a few years when things were bad where I came from, and a lot of my union brothers were out of unemployment. Some knew I had friends with Bartlett. I called for them and got them decon jobs at Peach Bottom. I got a call from the office shortly thereafter. They said where did you get these guys? I thought Oh boy. They said do you know any more? These are the hardest working, best deconners they ever saw. All of them were union, so don't even think about lableing union with lazy. It doesn't even apply.
JJ