How would you fix the NNPP

[withroaj]

Skim these forums..., how many 6 and out Navy nukes post about struggling to find a job?

If they're struggling, I'd be willing to bet they had unreasonable expectations of their actual levels of training and qualifications; OR they're trying to break into unrelated fields; OR they're location dependent; or...

If a Navy nuke is willing to start work for roughly the same paycheck (maybe a little bit less to begin with until promotable qualities are demonstrated) and isn't fixated on a specific location, the jobs are there and are hiring eagerly.

[GLW]

The general thinking of the selection board in the past, since at least 2000, is that as a Chief the watch you will be standing is.....

I could be wrong but, the NRC does not adhere to that sentiment when it comes to granting operating licenses,...

You're correct. The success rate of Navy nukes was never that great to begin with, but has been worsening. In my 5 short years in the biz, I've seen officers, chiefs and first classes go down in flames. BZ might be have a better feel for the numbers,...

If they're struggling, I'd be willing to bet they had unreasonable expectations,...

Once the ELT's jump into the room, a cyber party is bound to ensue,.....

[Higgs]

If they're struggling, I'd be willing to bet they had unreasonable expectations of their actual levels of training and qualifications; OR they're trying to break into unrelated fields; OR they're location dependent; or...

If a Navy nuke is willing to start work for roughly the same paycheck (maybe a little bit less to begin with until promotable qualities are demonstrated) and isn't fixated on a specific location, the jobs are there and are hiring eagerly.

I agree, they often have unreasonable expectations, but many simply aren't making it past the trash container with their resumes. At least not at my last 2 locations.

Justin

[Higgs]

I talked to a recruiter from Palo Verde just last month and he told me that his utility is no longer hiring instant SRO.

I think I know why. When I was there for a short time, they had a whole bunch of instants in class..., quite a few were KAPL engineers that stood shift supervisor (or whatever they called the civilian lead of a shift at NY prototype)..., from what I hear, that class wasn't very successful. It's hard to justify hiring "instants" when you invest so much capital in them and get no return on that investment.

Justin

[DontGoToNPTU]

Besides licensing, I've seen fewer Navy nukes being hired into the NLO ranks at my places of employment. The utility has been opting for people out of college with engineering degrees and other relevant experience instead of a 6 and out Navy nuke.

Skim these forums..., how many 6 and out Navy nukes post about struggling to find a job?

Justin

I was at TAP class a few weeks ago and a guy from Entergy was there at the jobs panel. He said flat out if you're a 6 and out Navy Nuke you better have something more than just your 4 years of experience to bring to the table such as a degree or EWS, otherwise finding work in the industry is gonna be difficult.

[GLW]

I was at TAP class a few weeks ago and a guy from Entergy was there at the jobs panel. He said flat out if you're a 6 and out Navy Nuke you better have something more than just your 4 years of experience to bring to the table such as a degree or EWS, otherwise finding work in the industry is gonna be difficult.

The sharp point of that spear was reflected on years ago,...

I don't need the Navy to provide me with experienced people for NLO Jobs. I can get what I need from the Junior Colleges, factories and such. We train from the ground up and we have much higher standards for performance so it doesn't matter where I get them from. All I need is someone with High Standards, a willingness to work and some intelligence. 15 years ago I knew I could get the first qualification I mentioned by hiring from the Navy. Now it's simply not true. I've seen some of the rocks the Navy puts out these days so now many don't meet qualification number 3 and so far as two, one doesn't need Navy experience to be a hard worker.

One of the very best ROs I know we snagged from Burger King and in my mind so far as work ethic, standards and plain ability to understand and operate a nuke plant this guy has very few peer, I learned a lot about my current facility from them.

It's my view someone without commercial experience shouldn't be commenting on what type of experience is applicable to the real world.

If you wanna fix Nuke school, put me in charge

Mike

I would have to agree about standards going down in the Navy Nuclear Program--I was in 1985-2005 and about midway I noticed a lot of "rocks" in the fleet--The saying for Prototype previously was "We are a filter" and around midway of my time in changed to "We are a Pump" --a septic tank pump obviously. The Navy didn't teach me a thing about being a hard worker, but instead demotivated any attempts at such with their asinine wasting of time with petty crap.  I think they need to look at what thay have changed in the last 20 years in the nuclear pipeline and change it back to the way it used to be--that may entail spending more money on the program and cease trying to squeeze water out of a brick--or a rock in this case.

When it comes to encouraging Navy nukes to stay in the Navy perhaps Bowman got it right,...

From the old Navy perspective anyways,...

The old Navy never did like Rickover's radical notions much anyhow,...

[drayer54]

I was at TAP class a few weeks ago and a guy from Entergy was there at the jobs panel. He said flat out if you're a 6 and out Navy Nuke you better have something more than just your 4 years of experience to bring to the table such as a degree or EWS, otherwise finding work in the industry is gonna be difficult.

If the company can be picky because it offers great location, pay, and promising futures.... why not be picky?

If the company is located in Where?, MS.... or about 2 and a half hours outside of civilization, GA or uses a dated pay scale...... you may have an easier time.

It's not the job of the Navy to prep its sailors for fine paying civilian careers, just to maintain the standards of the Navy (wherever they may be) and keep ships afloat.

[GLW]

...It's not the job of the Navy to prep its sailors for fine paying civilian careers, just to maintain the standards of the Navy (wherever they may be) and keep ships afloat.

[Marlin]

If the company can be picky because it offers great location, pay, and promising futures.... why not be picky?

If the company is located in Where?, MS.... or about 2 and a half hours outside of civilization, GA or uses a dated pay scale...... you may have an easier time.

It's not the job of the Navy to prep its sailors for fine paying civilian careers, just to maintain the standards of the Navy (wherever they may be) and keep ships afloat.

   Very true, but then perhaps recruiters should tell them that up front, recruiters fill Nuke wanna be's head's with thoughts of sugar plum fairies, commands tell them that more quals will get them good jobs outside and last time I checked recruitment and retention is part of the Navy.

[GLW]

   Very true, but then perhaps recruiters should tell them that up front, recruiters fill Nuke wanna be's head's with thoughts of sugar plum fairies, commands tell them that more quals will get them good jobs outside and last time I checked recruitment and retention is part of the Navy.

I disagree,...

No one who comes to these boards and reviews the typical perception of a recruiter can come away with the sugar plum and fairy visual,...

That same warning is found on dozens of websites related to recruiting and enlistment,...

It was the same warning I gave my own son before he enlisted 14 years ago,...

It is the same warning my son and all my children were given by their high school guidance counselors, I suspect it is the default warning of the NEA,...

It is the same warning (or informed decision advice if you prefer) that pretty much every ex-military parent I have ever spoke with about this topic gives to their children considering enlistment,...

and yet,...

they still choose to smoke cigarettes,...

they still choose to have sex, unprotected or otherwise,...

they still choose to drive without a seatbelt,...

they still choose to experiment with controlled substances,...

and they still choose to let the recruiter play to their ego and become 6YO's in the face of all "informed decision" advice to the contrary,...

I've seen two broad category types of ex-nukes here and elsewhere;

whiney bastards and mature adults,...

some whiney bastards are technical whizz kids but still whiney bastards,...

some mature adults are lower 50% but still mature adults,...

at the end of the day it's their choice,...

own it and live with it,...

[Marlin]

I disagree,...

No one who comes to these boards and reviews the typical perception of a recruiter can come away with the sugar plum and fairy visual,...

That same warning is found on dozens of websites related to recruiting and enlistment,...

It was the same warning I gave my own son before he enlisted 14 years ago,...

It is the same warning my son and all my children were given by their high school guidance counselors, I suspect it is the default warning of the NEA,...

It is the same warning (or informed decision advice if you prefer) that pretty much every ex-military parent I have ever spoke with about this topic gives to their children considering enlistment,...

and yet,...

they still choose to smoke cigarettes,...

they still choose to have sex, unprotected or otherwise,...

they still choose to drive without a seatbelt,...

they still choose to experiment with controlled substances,...

and they still choose to let the recruiter play to their ego and become 6YO's in the face of all "informed decision" advice to the contrary,...

I've seen two broad category types of ex-nukes here and elsewhere;

whiney bastards and mature adults,...

some whiney bastards are technical whizz kids but still whiney bastards,...

some mature adults are lower 50% but still mature adults,...

at the end of the day it's their choice,...

own it and live with it,...

going back to my post

   Very true, but then perhaps

I did not disagree just stating that the Navy is not without fault in this. "Buyer Beware" only goes so far.

"It's not the job of the Navy to prep its sailors for fine paying civilian careers, just to maintain the standards of the Navy (wherever they may be) and keep ships afloat."

"Needs of the Navy" includes the above statement and also includes recruiting and retaining of good talent, when the pressures drives recruiters and COs to oversell the civilian job market impressionable young men of 20 (to 40  ) probably believe those they see as an authority figure (then they run into BZ ). All of us exNukes have been exposed to the Navy Nuclear Program propaganda machine about how good they are and what their civilian prospects are (of course it's true for us exELTs  ) so I don't think that laying a little of this (at least a small amount) at the feet of the Navy is appropriate. As for taking any web site serious over an institutional establishment, it would violate the authority structure example you put forward using your kids as examples.


"That's just my opinion, I could be wrong."  D.M.






Sorry Mike I know that you take this site very serious. 

[GLW]

....."Buyer Beware" only goes so far....

Asking the Navy to run Port of Call: Bayonne, New Jersey in the recruiting office is a bit much,...

Time to stop splitting hares on this one,...

[GLW]

It just occurred to me the Lexington, formerly homeported in Pensacola and guarded by the valiant men of the USS Robert A. Owens (BITD when nukes pulled conventional sea time before nuke school) was never replaced in her CVT role,....

Sooooo,....

If Navy pilots no longer need a CVT, why do Navy nukes need a prototype?!?!?!?

I'm just saying,....

[GLW]

Prototype was a good way to thin out the herd.  People may have had the classroom smarts but struggle with physical operation of equipment.
It would be inconvenient for an operational vessel to be dead in the water because some nub made a mistake.

The current NNPP is not about thinning the herd, it's about pushing the entire herd through the chute and into the fleet and letting the fleet deal with it.

The conventional fleet has lots of nubs too, I was one of them once. Vessels dead in the water because of one nub watchstander are not the concern.

It just doesn't happen enough to warrant a statistical blip.

[drayer54]

The current NNPP is not about thinning the herd, it's about pushing the entire herd through the chute and into the fleet and letting the fleet deal with it.

The conventional fleet has lots of nubs too, I was one of them once. Vessels dead in the water because of one nub watchstander are not the concern.

It just doesn't happen enough to warrant a statistical blip.

My class was thinned as much in prototype as it was in power school. People could memorize a power tree but not have the skill to complete a qual manual. I wouldn't want to fly to Bahrain and hop on board to get my first look at an operational power plant.

[GLW]

My class was thinned as much in prototype as it was in power school. People could memorize a power tree but not have the skill to complete a qual manual. I wouldn't want to fly to Bahrain and hop on board to get my first look at an operational power plant.

Then again, the current anecdote is the fleet is thinning them out as much as the pipeline nowadays.

Is this an inaccurate observation?

It is mostly acquired from the number of posters here being booted for medical, and sad panda, and etc., etc.,

To the point though, if the fleet can train pilots without a CVT why do the nukes need prototypes and MTS's?

We're talking about cracking up multimillion dollar aircraft on billion dollar flight decks as opposed to turning the wrong valve, paralleling out of phase or touching the shim switch without performing a repeat back first,...

Do I (Joe taxpayer) really need multimillion dollar investments year after year just so you (Joe sailor) don't feel a little intimidated with your first real life TG startup?

I mean really, I qualified on the D1G with a D2W core and a nifty thing called a DFT all of which was slave to a demon known as the HAGAN cabinet and none of which were to be found anywhere on a 637 or 616 class with an S5W/S3GC3 propulsion plant where I spent 1293 days underway on nuclear power.

I did enjoy the working vacation in upstate New York though, prototype was one of my top three stints during my adventure in the USN.

I'm not thinking so,...

[GLW]

....(how else could an ELT play?)

If we're keeping the p-types and MTS's around because the ELT's need them,....

well,.....

that's something completely different,...

they are then (obviously) the wisest of all NNPP investments,...

[HydroDave63]

If we're keeping the p-types and MTS's around because the ELT's need them,....

well,.....

that's something completely different,...

they are then (obviously) the wisest of all NNPP investments,...

The proto-in-a-trailer could remotely open a source window to give the nublets the appropriate faux N-16 but real gamma dose, to simulate staying too long in the sample cabinet, valves stuck open, etc. Mix up various Hanford tank leakage effluent to give the kiddies something to analyze. These are all things, that if the NNPP did a contract with Boeing or some other Fortune 100 to build a simulator, would be incorporated.

[HeavyD]

Maneuvering/EOS watch standers could be adequately trained on an IDE (Interactive Display Equipment) simulator, similar to commercial simulators. 

MMs could be trained at a 600# steam plant school, alongside conventional mechanics. 

Boilerwater/Feedwater can be taught in a classroom setting at the various homeports (I think there is a conventional BW/FW course taught for secondary chemists already). 

Radcon is virtually nonexistent in the surface fleet, unless you are assigned to the ENTERPRISE.  Even then, she is on her last deployment currently.

The reshaping of the current version of prototype would probably cost less than will be expended converting two Los Angeles class attack subs into the newest MTSs.

Doing domething the same way "because that's how we've always done it" is a horrible decision making process.

[HydroDave63]

Maneuvering/EOS watch standers could be adequately trained on an IDE (Interactive Display Equipment) simulator, similar to commercial simulators. 

MMs could be trained at a 600# steam plant school, alongside conventional mechanics. 

Boilerwater/Feedwater can be taught in a classroom setting at the various homeports (I think there is a conventional BW/FW course taught for secondary chemists already). 

Do they still have the old 1200# plant in some decrepit brick buildings at Great Mistakes?

[rumrunner]

a nifty thing called a DFT all of which was slave to a demon known as the HAGAN cabinet

While serving on Texas (CGN-39) on Christmas port call in Livorno Italy (1981 I think), the Hagan in #1 plant would not cooperate and nobody aboard could fix the damned thing.  So what did we do?  A Fast Frigate was also in port so they sent over a Senior Chief Boiler Tech.  I issued him a TLD and he had that piece of junk up and running in less than an hour.  Never had another problem with it.

[GLW]

While serving on Texas (CGN-39) on Christmas port call in Livorno Italy (1981 I think), the Hagan in #1 plant would not cooperate and nobody aboard could fix the damned thing.  So what did we do?  A Fast Frigate was also in port so they sent over a Senior Chief Boiler Tech.  I issued him a TLD and he had that piece of junk up and running in less than an hour.  Never had another problem with it.

which dovetails nicely with this question:

....Is this because of the average attitude of the ex-navy nuke?  They have been told for years that they are the cream of the crop in the Navy and for a lot of us it tends to give us a sense of being more important that we really are....

and this answer:

Attitude, leave the I am holier than Non Navy Nukes and I am the cream of the crop attitude at your house.....

[drayer54]

mean really, I qualified on the D1G with a D2W core and a nifty thing called a DFT all of which was slave to a demon known as the HAGAN cabinet and none of which were to be found anywhere on a 637 or 616 class with an S5W/S3GC3 propulsion plant where I spent 1293 days underway on nuclear power.

That Hagan thing ain't so antique. I stood there with a smile when the feed system air signal controlling piece o crap was hoisted out of the Ike for the last time. It was one of the most challenging pieces of equipment to operate for sure.
\
I'd like to hear more on this. Sounds like a good idea.

Then again, the current anecdote is the fleet is thinning them out as much as the pipeline nowadays.

Is this an inaccurate observation?

It is mostly acquired from the number of posters here being booted for medical, and sad panda, and etc., etc.,

To the point though, if the fleet can train pilots without a CVT why do the nukes need prototypes and MTS's?

We're talking about cracking up multimillion dollar aircraft on billion dollar flight decks as opposed to turning the wrong valve, paralleling out of phase or touching the shim switch without performing a repeat back first,...

Do I (Joe taxpayer) really need multimillion dollar investments year after year just so you (Joe sailor) don't feel a little intimidated with your first real life TG startup?

The fleet doesn't remove people based on their learning or operating ability. The fleet removes people who aren't mature enough to handle the stresses of being an adult with a job and some people with legit issues that got swept through. Nukes can go straight to sea from power school, but I think the qual process would need to be modified to merge the mechanical/electrical/reactor operator basics of power plant operation and the demands of a real warship. It could be done for sure. Why not?

[eaton1981]

Does a gas turbine tech do any type of "hands on training" at a land based mockup of a gas turbine before they are shipped out to the fleet? I doubt it.

In my opinion, the NPTUs can be done away with.

[HydroDave63]

Does a gas turbine tech do any type of "hands on training" at a land based mockup of a gas turbine before they are shipped out to the fleet? I doubt it.

In my opinion, the NPTUs can be done away with.

8 week A school in Great Mistakes

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/enlistedjob1/a/gsm.htm