Leadership

[co60slr]

Brilliant argument. Probably convinced a whole army of doubters. The great and powerful Oz has spoken. 

I've started asking myself what we'll do with the answer when if falls from the sky.

It's Nature/Innate.   [Insert long silence here].    Now what?

It's Nurtured (i.e., education, experience).   [Insert another long pause].  Now what?

Both?  If you don't have a desire to be a leader, you wouldn't be trying so hard.   Much like a musician practicing a musical instrument maybe?  How can a three year old become a master violinist and awe the world on TV while someone else practices their whole life and will never hope to achieve the same?   

Leaders, Artists, Mathematicians.   It seems there has to be some rough framework in your brain for your particular destiny before you can fill it in with books.   Can anyone become a master painter?  Can anyone become a great theoretical mathematician?   

Can an average person be a leader, artist, musician, and mathematician....to an "average" extent?   Of course.

What does it take to become "world class" or an "outlier" to normal society?  How do we define "world class"?  Can a Father be a great leader of his family, but then go to work as car manufacturing line assembly worker?

Good book: http://www.gladwell.com/outliers/index.html

[MacGyver]

Indeed. Thank you.   Or, thank "ya'!", as you say.  Also, thank you for the colorful PM in parallel with your public presentation.   I have 200 PMs that include many "thank you's" for my help and now one rude one.   No matter.  You're 100 percent correct.   My posting had an error.  

A review of your postings and the nice PM reveals what I consider to be more interesting spelling/grammar errors.   I wonder if YOU can find them though.   Copy/paste your best post/contribution to Nukeworker for peer review.

Otherwise, maybe the NFAS nub that you defend will arrive at Southern in a few years and be your boss.   Please, let us know how that works out for you.

Co58

"Much fear (and anger) I sense in you"  -  Yoda

Post is here

"We?"  I, for one don't care about Internet Forum spell checking.  How one writes in an Internet forum, email, IRC, chat, SMS, etc has NOTHING to do with their professional technical writing skills.  More importantly, technical accuracy is more important (to me) than grammatical accuracy (which can always be fixed during final proofing).  The culture in the 21st century that launches "kids" into the professional world with bad email habits is not going to be fixed here.  

I've met several officers/managers that can compile a 100 page report that says absolutely nothing, but is grammatically correct.  Sometimes, they would even kick it off with a fancy 20 page PowerPoint that also said nothing, but had a lot of fancy animations for show.   All a complete waste of time if the issues are not clearly presented (or worse yet...not valid).   For example, have you ever seen a root cause analysis report with perfect grammar...yet fixes nothing?  Worthless!

So for starters, the "kid" needs to have a solid WORKING knowledge of algebra.  (Also needed for Calculus and higher engineering studies).  If not, I'm not going to care what his writing skills are since he won't be a nuke.  Otherwise, I'll be happy to train him him how to write when the time comes.  In the end, if he's not a clear thinker, than perhaps "we" can explain how that will limit his Navy and Commercial Nuclear career?   "Technical writing" is not a class taught at NPS or in any Commercial Nuclear Training curriculum.   OJT after initial quals?  OJT after a few tours?

Separately, I want to have a Nuke working for me that speaks his/her mind...especially to challenge me regardless of any rank or title.  For that, the poster is commended; however, he'll get "smacked down" enough while he's a "NUB" at Prototype to figure out what many people were illustrating in response to his "disrespect".  Perhaps then, he (et al) will figure out why so many of his predecessors entered the Navy with such a great attitude, only to have it squashed by instances of poor/uncaring leadership.  Should we "spoonfeed?"  Definitely not, and the NNPP and Commercial training programs will see to that.  

If he's an exceptional operator, clear thinker, writer, and overall "nuke leader"...perhaps it's one of US that will be working for HIM one day.   (Yes, I've seen that a few times in 20+ years).  No exposure to higher math, physics, chemistry, trig...but was able to pass the NNPP entrance exam?  That raised my curiosity about his intellectual ability.  I guessed that the original poster knows what to do to address his weaknesses and was simply looking for some reassurance.  He didn't need any answer, in my opinion.  He knows what to do and it's all a matter of how badly he wants to be a nuke.

Co60

Yes, I researched your posts and knew exactly what button to push.  I gave you a chance to fix your spelling error and asked you to not to act like you are perfect (because you are not).  And my pm had such "colorful" {sic} language that it got your back up.  I don't find "thin skinned" a charactistic valuable in the Nuclear Community.  At least in good "Leaders".  And, wouldn't good leaders be spending less time on NW and more on leading?  That is a rhetorical question so there will be no need to answer it, thanks.


As a side note I have a few examples of your consistence (or the lack thereof):
Example 1
http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,25454.msg130202.html#msg130202

We know your opinion, and it's rejected.

"Te" is actually spelled "the".   Hit the spell checker every now and then...ok?  Mr. God-Nuke of the Dictionary.

Example 2
http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,25454.msg130300.html#msg130300

...I try to hit spell checker on my post before critiquing others on their spelling.

If you want to win an argument with me about the nuclear navy, you'll have to do better than referencing books.  While you were busy reading over the years, I was actually in that nuclear navy for two decades.  Keep reading.

If you're looking for me to disagree with you about Rickover, it's unlikely to happen.  The books highlight a history on how the NNPP was built, and I could care less about one man's personality flaws.  His Ego caught up with him one day and his career was sunsetted.

I'm curious for you to compare/contrast the various Rickover books.  I'll see you on your Rickover Thread, if/when you decide to start an intellectual conversation.

Co58

Example 3
http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,25727.msg131971.html#msg131971

Dang that was difficult.  10 minutes of "NW forum formatting and reformatting" that I'll never get back.

[HydroDave63]

Good book: http://www.gladwell.com/outliers/index.html

I'll probably be late for work, but that book review and author's website is awesome!

The one quote that pertains to this thread lately is as follows:

" But the southerners? Oh my. They were angry. Their cortisol and testosterone jumped. Their handshakes got firm. "

http://www.gladwell.com/outliers/outliers_excerpt2.html

[Marlin]

I'll probably be late for work, but that book review and author's website is awesome!

The one quote that pertains to this thread lately is as follows:

" But the southerners? Oh my. They were angry. Their cortisol and testosterone jumped. Their handshakes got firm. "

http://www.gladwell.com/outliers/outliers_excerpt2.HTML

   I have read his books and would recommend them to anyone wanting to gain insight into themselves and people as a whole. His other books are "Blink" and "Tipping Point", "Blink" deals with an individuals decision making process and "Tipping Point" explores how some things can produce effects that escalate exponentially in some situations but not others. These are especially useful to managers and salespeople.


  Even though I think that some people have an innate ability to become a leader they clearly would be a More effective and productive leader after reading these and other books on Leadership. 

[deltarho]

Much like a musician practicing a musical instrument maybe?  How can a three year old become a master violinist and awe the world on TV while someone else practices their whole life and will never hope to achieve the same?   

Leaders, Artists, Mathematicians.   It seems there has to be some rough framework in your brain for your particular destiny before you can fill it in with books.   Can anyone become a master painter?  Can anyone become a great theoretical mathematician?   

Can an average person be a leader, artist, musician, and mathematician....to an "average" extent?   Of course.

Co60Slr, surely you understand how the solar system is similar to the atom, with planets orbiting the sun like electrons orbiting the nucleus.  We also know that electrons jump valences or from orbit to orbit; therefore, astronomers must have observed the planets exhibiting the same behavior, planets jumping from orbit to orbit.  I'm sorry; your argument to compare leadership with musicianship or artistry is just as invalid because you are using bad analogies or spurious similarities. 

Leadership requires the action of two or more persons to exist, not true for any of your examples of supposed parallels to a leader: artist, musician, or mathematician.  Nevertheless, may we get philosophical for a moment?  Allen (2004) interpreted the French sociologist Michel Foucault's view on power:

Foucault . . . depicted power as a behavior or process that pervades all human interaction. In contrast to the "power over" stance, which implies that power occurs occasionally, Foucault asserts that "power resides in every perception, every judgment, every act." Foucault contended that people enact power to produce and reproduce, resist, or transform structures of communication and meaning, even in the most mundane social practices.  (p. 25)

Michel Foucault (1979) wrote about power:

It is never localized here or there, never in anybody's hands, never appropriated as a commodity or piece of wealth.  Power is employed and exercised through a net-like organization.  And not only do individuals circulate between its threads; they are always in the position of simultaneously undergoing and exercising this power.  They are not only its inert or consenting target; they are always also the elements of its articulation. In other words, individuals are the vehicles of power, not its points of application. (p. 98)

Power always involves a set of actions performed upon another person's responses and actions.  In essence, a power relationship can exist only if two prerequisites are continuously in play: that the person whom power is exercised on is recognized as a person who will act, and that those acts will necessarily be carried out by a multiplicity of reactions, results, and innovations (Foucault, 1982).

According to Foucault, nobody can have power over you unless you choose to participate; power requires a relationship.  In light of this, I posit that when one who wishes to exert power over another is not getting him or her to join the dance, the oppressor raises the stakes with threats, innuendos, hiding behind social equality rhetoric, or similar behavior we have observed in this thread: fallacious arguments such as bad analogies, spurious similarities, argument by dismissal (an idea is rejected without saying why), argument by vehemence (that's B.S.), and so forth.
__________
Allen, B. (2004). Difference matters: Communicating social identity. Long Grove, IL: Waveland Press.
Foucault, M. (with Hurley, R. [translator]). (1979). The history of sexuality: An introduction. London, England: Penguin Books.
Foucault, M. (1982). The Subject and Power. In Dreyfus, H. L. & Rabinow, P. (Eds.). Michel Foucault: Beyond structuralism and hermeneutics. IL: University of Chicago Press.

[HydroDave63]

Co60Slr, surely you understand how the solar system is similar to the atom, with planets orbiting the sun like electrons orbiting the nucleus.  We also know that electrons jump valences or from orbit to orbit; therefore, astronomers must have observed the planets exhibiting the same behavior, planets jumping from orbit to orbit.  I'm sorry; your argument to compare leadership with musicianship or artistry is just as invalid because you are using bad analogies or spurious similarities. 

Speaking of flawed analogies and planetary motion... Laplace might have bought into that planetary "discrete quanta" track theory (another French philosopher!), but Newton and Herschel calculated effects of perturbation of astronomical bodies in motion. Which actually brings us back onto topic , because the astronomical body with more pull will "lead" the other body towards it!

[DDMurray]

Co60Slr, surely you understand .... blah, blah, blah (with references)

Are you saying you disagree with Co60 or are you showing us how educated and well-read you are?

By the way, I think Outliers is probably one of the best books I've read that combines research and common sense to support the author's theories.  It's a good read whether or not you buy into the author's point of view; plus it's short.

[Neutron Whisperer]

Anyone consider himself/herself as a good leader?  Why?

[my name is.....]

Im a good leader because my mommy said so!

[co60slr]

I'm sorry; your argument to compare leadership with musicianship or artistry is just as invalid because you are using bad analogies or spurious similarities. 

So, I'm wrong just because you say so?  Then, you throw more books at us?   Are you demonstrating the leadership here that you're being taught?  "I'm right, you're wrong. Period.  Get back to work"...

My references reflected other analogies that suggest it takes 10,000 hours to master something.  You name the subject if you don't like mine.  My theory is that if 100 people spend 10,000 hours trying to become a leader the performance result will be a bell curve.  To be really good at anything, I think you have to be "gifted" (or have innate qualities).   However, I don't believe people without innate leadership qualities are doomed to failure, but I don't believe they'll ever be a CEO.

Meanwhile, I still want proof that you're not attending some "Cult College".  Again, name a leader that has come out of your "Church of Leadership of Jesus Christ".  (2nd request).  If you're sitting on some gold pile of all-knowing leadership training Jedi academy, then surely you have examples...right?   

Also, I (and probably the other 3000 viewers to this thread) would like to know how your education is being applied to YOUR real life examples. Yes, Navy: Getting Out people need tools to use in the nuclear industry.   (At some point you have to put those books down and roll up your own sleeves!)  Otherwise, you can quote all the books you want and spend the rest of your life doing the same.   Don't forget to hang that pretty degree on the wall some day too!

Leadership = Results.   Nature versus Nature, or otherwise is a philosophical debate, which as we can all predict has no final right answer.  Meanwhile, my vote is for you to now "Show us the money" from your Savant Soapbox or go make some.  I'm still waiting.

The senior officers and managers of the military and commercial nuclear utilities are not looking for any leadership gimmicks from no name universities. (FACT).  I don't have the full 100 percent answer, (nor do I believe there is one answer), but I don't think your college comes even close.  I'll wager that some people here may have had some luck in the last 25+ years of nuclear experience to know what works in this industry.

Again, I can't speak for WalMart.  Some non-nuclear companies do like to try the gimmicks.   However, they also lay people off when they the gimmick fails.   

Co58

[deltarho]

Are you saying you disagree with Co60 or are you showing us how educated and well-read you are?

By the way, I think Outliers is probably one of the best books I've read that combines research and common sense to support the author's theories.  It's a good read whether or not you buy into the author's point of view; plus it's short.

Master Chief,

I'm sorry if I offended you in some way, and I have to believe I have because HydroDave63, for example, has written much more cogently on subjects far more diverse than leadership, and although I did only a cursory search, I cannot find an instance in which you besmirched his intentions or intimated he was a showoff.

Perhaps the answer to "why did he try to flame me?" is in your post.  I'm guessing you hastily skimmed through what I wrote instead of perusing it because I clearly wrote in the first paragraph that I disagreed with Co60Slr's argument, and gave supporting reasons to boot. 

As to the nature of the rest of my post, to date all of our arguments have been anecdotal.  I believe providing information that frames my view is an act of humility, making me vulnerable, and can only enrich the conversation and promote dialogue; it gives others opportunities to find holes in my thinking and to challenge my assertions.  I find that I learn most from others' who are willing to share their experiences and help me to learn that which corresponds to reality.

deltarho

[deltarho]

To be really good at anything, I think you have to be "gifted" (or have innate qualities).   However, I don't believe people without innate leadership qualities are doomed to failure, but I don't believe they'll ever be a CEO.

Co60Slr,

Thank you for you passionate and apparently honest post.  As you pointed out, and I hope I highlighted, you don't know what you are talking about--you have no proof.  Before you get your panties in a gather, I pointed out in a previous post all of our posts have been anecdotal.  Where's the hard data that proves leadership is innate, or for that matter--not?  Without hard data, the innate camp has failed to provide any compelling support.  However, whenever the not innate camp brings a little scholarship to the table, the best response from the innate camp is to attack the character of the other, not the information.  

I never wrote that I was right, but I did write that your argument was flawed because the foundation of your argument was flawed.  Did that make you wrong?  Yes.  Did that make me right by proxy? Maybe in your economy, but not mine--you were simply flawed in your thinkinking, and I showed you why I believed so.  

As an aside, your tone about Jesus Christ makes me wonder about the motivation behind your use of "Sic Transit Gloria Mundi;" at this moment I believe you are being sarcastic.

deltarho

[DDMurray]

Master Chief,

I'm sorry if I offended you in some way, and I have to believe I have because HydroDave63, for example, has written much more cogently on subjects far more diverse than leadership, and although I did only a cursory search, I cannot find an instance in which you besmirched his intentions or intimated he was a showoff.

Perhaps the answer to "why did he try to flame me?" is in your post.  I'm guessing you hastily skimmed through what I wrote instead of perusing it because I clearly wrote in the first paragraph that I disagreed with Co60Slr's argument, and gave supporting reasons to boot. 

As to the nature of the rest of my post, to date all of our arguments have been anecdotal.  I believe providing information that frames my view is an act of humility, making me vulnerable, and can only enrich the conversation and promote dialogue; it gives others opportunities to find holes in my thinking and to challenge my assertions.  I find that I learn most from others' who are willing to share their experiences and help me to learn that which corresponds to reality.

deltarho

1. Please don't call me Master Chief.  I retired 2 years ago tomorrow.

2. No offense taken.  I read your reference to an author I've never heard of and noticed how your post was written in a scholarly manner.  To me that was showing off so I tried to call you on it.

3. I disagree with you (or your pal Foucault) that people allow others to have power over them.  In any hierarchy of an organization, there will be power based on position. 

To quote myself:
(from 6/1/2009)
"Leadership according to Murray.  There are three general types of nukes in the navy.
1.  Strong work ethic, raised that any job worth doing is worth doing right.  They'll do well no matter what.
2.  Guy (or gal) that doesn't like what they're doing, but they care enough about their peers, that they don't want to bag them so they'll do the right thing most of the time.
3.  Guy doesn't like what he's doing and he'll do the right thing to minimize any pain that falling short of expectations will bring, so they'll reluctantly do the right thing, especially when watched.

There are some people that are combinations and some that are motivated by recognition, but people generally fall into one of these categories.  Our job as leaders is to turn people into # 1 or at least get the most out of their talents.  If you can get someone to see the reasons for doing things right, they are much more likely to grow into it vice the "my way or the highway" mentality. "

I don't need a professor or an author to confirm my belief because, quite frankly, I know I'm right

[co60slr]

I never wrote that I was right, but I did write that your argument was flawed because the foundation of your argument was flawed.  Did that make you wrong?  Yes. 

Leadership = Results.  Meanwhile, keep talking in circles.   It'll impress someone in the non-nuclear community.

[JsonD13]

Leadership = Results.  Meanwhile, keep talking in circles.   It'll impress someone in the non-nuclear community.

Yep so true.  Too bad the guys on the bottom and the guys over you usually have two different expectations of what "results" are.

Jason

[deltarho]

If you can get someone to see the reasons for doing things right, they are much more likely to grow into it vice the "my way or the highway" mentality. "

I don't need a professor or an author to confirm my belief because, quite frankly, I know I'm right

Two things:

(1)  Although this may be taken the wrong way, I am gambling that you live by your own "belief" and want to achieve number one on your list of three; after all, when you sought a scholarly reference on the subject of leadership, you cited yourself.

    I won't bore you with the long story of how it derailed my credibility with a V. P., but now that you are almost two years out of the military, you need to strike the word "vice" as a synonym for versus or instead of.  Check all the dictionaries you wish, you may think it is a conspiracy; but chalk it up to military speak or jargon that has become ingrained in our vocabulary.

(2)  I am not quite sure you were communicating effectively or were trying to be polite by appearing humble because, as the receiver, I am confused. No matter how many times I read your final line, you have contradicted yourself.  You wrote that you "don't need a professor or an author to confirm my belief because, quite frankly, I know I'm right."  Which is correct?

[co60slr]

Too bad the guys on the bottom and the guys over you usually have two different expectations of what "results" are.

That's the heart of leadership.   How YOU (i.e., me, we, etc) learns to deal with this exact situation, and do it successfully is the key to success.

Then, just when you have your niche figured out, you get transferred into a new culture and you get to start all over again.

Perhaps the true leader can step into various situations regardless of the "curve balls" his boss or subordinates throw at him.  In my experience, someone is always challenging you.

[co60slr]

Two things:

(1)  Although this may be taken the wrong way, I am gambling that you live by your own "belief" and want to achieve number one on your list of three; after all, when you sought a scholarly reference on the subject of leadership, you cited yourself.

     I won't bore you with the long story of how it derailed my credibility with a V. P., but now that you are almost two years out of the military, you need to strike the word "vice" as a synonym for versus or instead of.  Check all the dictionaries you wish, you may think it is a conspiracy; but chalk it up to military speak or jargon that has become ingrained in our vocabulary.

(2)  I am not quite sure you were communicating effectively or were trying to be polite by appearing humble because, as the receiver, I am confused. No matter how many times I read your final line, you have contradicted yourself.  You wrote that you "don't need a professor or an author to confirm my belief because, quite frankly, I know I'm right."  Which is correct?

Three more things:

1.  It's no longer clear to me why a ETCS, early retiree working at Phillip Morris, USA is trolling this nuclear leadership thread with his psychobabble savant leadership. 

2.  It's not clear what Phillip Morris has taught the ETCS such that he feels he can come back to nuclear and critique people that advanced farther in the military than he did.  Although, being promoted to E-8 at 11 years is very respectable...which I assume was done without your savant leadership babble.  I don't know of any CGN Chiefs or Officers that would have listened to your crap.

3.  You have forgotten your nuclear roots in how to argue with actual facts.   Your best shot here continues to simply be "you're wrong" without any basis.  Perhaps that works when you're making cigarettes, but not when controlling fission.

So for any other 3000 viewers to this looking to get into non-nuclear (e.g., Phillip Morris) perhaps DeltaRho can help you out.

[deltarho]

Three more things:

1.  It's no longer clear to me why a ETCS, early retiree working at Phillip Morris, USA is trolling this nuclear leadership thread with his psychobabble savant leadership.  

2.  It's not clear what Phillip Morris has taught the ETCS such that he feels he can come back to nuclear and critique people that advanced farther in the military than he did.  Although, being promoted to E-8 at 11 years is very respectable...which I assume was done without your savant leadership babble.  I don't know of any CGN Chiefs or Officers that would have listened to your crap.

3.  You have forgotten your nuclear roots in how to argue with actual facts.   Your best shot here continues to simply be "you're wrong" without any basis.  Perhaps that works when you're making cigarettes, but not when controlling fission.

So for any other 3000 viewers to this looking to get into non-nuclear (e.g., Phillip Morris) perhaps DeltaRho can help you out.

Co60Slr,

Did my previous mentioning of Jesus Christ in a reverential way get you so riled that you feel compelled to answer for others, and by intimating that I wrote things that I clearly did not?

At any rate, once might be attributable to the fat finger effect, a typographical error; thrice, however, must be point to something else: The proper spelling is Philip, using one "l."  Additionally, I'm of the impression that you are not one to use words without knowing their meanings or to throw them around carelessly, but your context of "psychobabble savant" seems to be an oxymoron.  On the other hand, using the tone and the content of your posts directed to me, I could make a mental leap that you had no intention of complimenting me; therefore, my only conclusion is that this is an obvious mistake, but not one attributable to the fat finger effect.  Using the only clues you have provided, I wonder whether you suffer from dyslexia, which must have been very difficult for you.  I shared about servant leadership; but when you mocked me, you wrote [ui]savant[/ui] leadership.  Looking back at my previous posts, I still don't understand how what I wrote could be interpreted by you as I would look down on you for your learning disorder.  I think it is now widely known it is not caused by low intelligence or brain damage, but that may not have been the case when you were growing up.  I apologize for any misunderstanding.

Also, as the forum's Master-at-Arms, please point me to the section that delineates how I am violating the rules of membership of this forum.  I want to get into compliance.

deltarho

[co60slr]

Also, as the forum's Master-at-Arms, please point me to the section that delineates how I am violating the rules of membership of this forum.  I want to get into compliance.

It's not my website, nor do I serve any staff function.

Enjoy your cigarette manufacturing leadership.   I'll stick to nuclear.

Post away...mystery solved.  I'm out.

Co58

[DDMurray]

Two things:
(1)  Although this may be taken the wrong way, I am gambling that you live by your own "belief" and want to achieve number one on your list of three; after all, when you sought a scholarly reference on the subject of leadership, you cited yourself.

Changes italicized
Your "Two things" were actually three.

I was not trying to provide a scholarly reference.  I was trying to point out what I had said about leadership on NW a year an a half ago.  It was based on my experience in the Navy.  Whether you think leadership ability is innate or a learned trait, if you are responsible for a division or department, you recognize that people are motivated by different things.  You've also got a job to do.  Over time you and your people are better off if they do the right thing on their own - it doesn't matter if you've taught them or they already had that trait as part of their character.

    I won't bore you with the long story of how it derailed my credibility with a V. P., but now that you are almost two years out of the military, you need to strike the word "vice" as a synonym for versus or instead of.  Check all the dictionaries you wish, you may think it is a conspiracy; but chalk it up to military speak or jargon that has become ingrained in our vocabulary.

From a reference  I found via google.  There are others.

vice⁴
prep
instead of; as a substitute for
[from Latin, ablative of vicis change]
Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003

If your credibility was derailed over the supposed misuse of a word, the V.P. sounds narrow-minded to me.  You are correct.  That story would bore me.

(2)  I am not quite sure you were communicating effectively or were trying to be polite by appearing humble because, as the receiver, I am confused. No matter how many times I read your final line, you have contradicted yourself.  You wrote that you "don't need a professor or an author to confirm my belief because, quite frankly, I know I'm right."  Which is correct?

Both.
I don't need an author or professor to confirm my belief -AND-
I know I'm right.

Look, I spent 24+ years in the Navy, over half of them in leadership positions.  I've been to leadership schools, I've read books on leadership, and I've observed good and bad leaders.  I made plenty of mistakes, but I also did some things right.  In the Navy the best leaders were the ones that were technically competent, trained their men on "the why" as well as "the how", and combined mission accomplishment with an earnest desire to look out for their people.  In my two years in civilian nuclear power, all that experience helped me get my foot in the door, and that's it.... so far.  The OP's original question was how would leadership training pad his resume.  It's led to this pretty long thread about 1001 ways to skin a cat.  I was wrong to call you out in the manner I did, regardless of how much I disagreed with your post.  For that I apologize.

Let me close with (from despair.com):

Motivation
If a pretty poster and a cute saying are all it takes to motivate you, you probably have a very easy job. The kind robots will be doing soon.

[OldHP]

Quote from: deltarho on Today at 17:01
Also, as the forum's Master-at-Arms, please point me to the section that delineates how I am violating the rules of membership of this forum.  I want to get into compliance.

Seems like someone should be reminded of the old adage:

Lead ... Follow ... or Get Out of the Way!

[Sun Dog]

Oh great...is this headline a vote for the innate trait camp or the learned trait camp...or is it all inane?

Faith Stressed As Key Leadership Component at Governor's Prayer Breakfast


http://ozarksfirst.com/fulltext/?nxd_id=381776

[deltarho]

Both.
I don't need an author or professor to confirm my belief -AND-
I know I'm right.

DD,

I'm sorry; you misunderstood what it was I misunderstood about which of the two were true.  You did write it again, so it was not a mistake, but still confusing as to which you mean to convey.  I'll specify my points of confusion this time.

Your use of belief and right contradict each other.  Using the Encarta Dictionary--Belief: acceptance by the mind that something is true or real, often underpinned by an emotional or spiritual sense of certainty versus Right: accurate, or consistent with the facts or general belief.  You expressed no desire for validation from those outside from your own mind that your belief system has merit.  This stance begs the question: How can you know you are right?

[co60slr]

This stance begs the question: How can you know you are right?

Navy Promotion boards, 30+ years of tried/true leadership experience, and commercial nuclear management.

You continue to talk from books, while many people are talking from decades of experience.

You do what works to sell cigarettes to children and let the real leaders/managers handle nuclear power.  You have yet to provide ANY examples of how your hocus-pocus psycho babble is applied with success to YOUR workplace.   Meanwhile, you continue to pick other forum members apart.   You may say you were a SCPO, but I think that was only E-8.