The Nuclear Renaissance

[withroaj]

I appreciate the upgrade.  Makes my soap box feel that much stronger.

[Cathy]

A damn shame, if you ask me.  Especially when you take into account the other "energy alternatives" that are all the rage nowadays.  For example, wind energy (which I am all for if it helps me get a taco with a swipe of a debit card anywhere I go in the country), hailed as the "environmentally friendly" alternative to the great satan's nuclear power, takes up a MASSIVE amount of space for very little power output.  Let's use Horse Hollow in Texas as our wind example.  47,000 acres of land produce 735.5 MWe (wikipedia - take it for what it's worth).  Not bad, I guess.

Now let's look at Turkey Point.  3,300 acres of American Crocodile savin' wildlife preserve, producing about 1500 MWe from good ol' Uranium (again wikipedia, but you fellers would be glad to upgrade me, I'm sure).  I know that the individual footprint of a wind turbine is very small, and I have to say again that I am all for wind power in addition to nuclear if it allows me to pay the electricity bill without crying; but it seems that reactor plants take up a lot less space per MW.

Wind power is good stuff until the wind quits blowing:
http://www.wind-watch.org/news/2008/02/28/power-grid-narrowly-averted-rolling-blackouts/
Of course, if we situated wind turbines around D.C. close to the doors of Congress I don't believe we would have the problem of a lack wind blowing out to keep them turning! As a bonus, maybe we could convert some of the heat from all that hot air 

[RDTroja]

Of course, if we situated wind turbines around D.C. close to the doors of Congress I don't believe we would have the problem of a lack wind blowing out to keep them turning! As a bonus, maybe we could convert some of the heat from all that hot air 

Chicago is called 'The Windy City' not because of the weather, but because of the politicians there (it was a political slam by a journalist that coined the nickname.) Maybe we should just set up some wind farms there. Come to think of it, Warren lives there, too. Maybe we could set up at his house.

[retired nuke]

Wind power is good stuff until the wind quits blowing:
http://www.wind-watch.org/news/2008/02/28/power-grid-narrowly-averted-rolling-blackouts/
Of course, if we situated wind turbines around D.C. close to the doors of Congress I don't believe we would have the problem of a lack wind blowing out to keep them turning! As a bonus, maybe we could convert some of the heat from all that hot air 

Hmmm. how many days are they actually in session - and how many sessions are 1 person reading a speech to an empty stadium....nope, once again, can't find an effective use for them....

[illegalsmile]

Chicago is called 'The Windy City' not because of the weather, but because of the politicians there (it was a political slam by a journalist that coined the nickname.) Maybe we should just set up some wind farms there. Come to think of it, Warren lives there, too. Maybe we could set up at his house.

I believe the Esteemed Mr. W relocated to The North Shore of Ohio...and I know you can do better than "two Mistakes on the Lake."

[withroaj]

Hmmm. how many days are they actually in session - and how many sessions are 1 person reading a speech to an empty stadium....nope, once again, can't find an effective use for them....

Now, let's not knock Congress too hard here.  I heard on the news yesterday that Speaker Pelosi is negotiating with China for another loan to get a second economic stimulus check out before the end of the year.  That's taking care of people there.  Don't be cynical.  It's not just election year pandering.   

[HydroDave63]

Now, let's not knock Congress too hard here.  I heard on the news yesterday that Speaker Pelosi is negotiating with China for another loan to get a second economic stimulus check out before the end of the year. 

Here is someone that can help her negotiate...



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[wlrun3@aol.com]

   ..."The realistic expectations of industry experts are that the first new nuclear power plant will begin commercial operation in 2017, with a potential for up to 15-20 new plants coming on line in the years shortly thereafter."
      Ralph Anderson, Health Physics News, July 2008

   ...what would be the first solid indication that this, or something even more optimistic, will actually occur...

[rlbinc]

I think the large part orders are a good sign. We have seen that in the US.
Construction contracts being funded is a stronger sign. There is some of that activity, not in the Billions, though.
Concrete pouring is even better. We haven't seen that in the US.
The new AP 1000 at Sanmen (China) did commence a concrete pour last week.

[wlrun3@aol.com]

I think the large part orders are a good sign. We have seen that in the US.
Construction contracts being funded is a stronger sign. There is some of that activity, not in the Billions, though.
Concrete pouring is even better. We haven't seen that in the US.
The new AP 1000 at Sanmen (China) did commence a concrete pour last week.

   ...do you think this is the most likely scenario...

   ..."The realistic expectations of industry experts are that the first new nuclear power plant will begin commercial operation in 2017, with a potential for up to 15-20 new plants coming on line in the years shortly thereafter."
      Ralph Anderson, Health Physics News, July 2008

[Gamecock]

I think the large part orders are a good sign. We have seen that in the US.
Construction contracts being funded is a stronger sign. There is some of that activity, not in the Billions, though.
Concrete pouring is even better. We haven't seen that in the US.
The new AP 1000 at Sanmen (China) did commence a concrete pour last week.

I agree...orders for the long lead-time items like pressure vessel forgings would be a good sign.  I think there is only one company certified to make those things but I'm not 100% sure of that.

GC

[HydroDave63]

   ...what would be the first solid indication that this, or something even more optimistic, will actually occur...

First solid indication of a Nuclear Renaissance, in a more employee friendly 21st century...

[retired nuke]

First solid indication of a Nuclear Renaissance, in a more employee friendly 21st century...

Hmmm, a coupla beers, and maybe a slow heatup...that would cover the short term.... 

[rlbinc]

   ...do you think this is the most likely scenario...

   ..."The realistic expectations of industry experts are that the first new nuclear power plant will begin commercial operation in 2017, with a potential for up to 15-20 new plants coming on line in the years shortly thereafter."
      Ralph Anderson, Health Physics News, July 2008

I think those dates are possible in the US, if stars align correctly.
If we were talking United Arab Emirates, I'd say it's a slam dunk. The difference? UAE will build with cash, not bonds; and without shareholder and intervenor discussion.

[wlrun3@aol.com]

   ...is this strategy undoable...


   ...50 % american electricity from light water reactors by 2030...

   ...reprocessing...

   ...electric cars, electric mass transit...

   ...only air and truck transport remain liquid petroleum...

[withroaj]

Come on, all we have to do is honestly educate Americans on the risks and benefits of nukeeler power.  Easy, right?

[HydroDave63]

Come on, all we have to do is honestly educate Americans on the risks and benefits of nukeeler power.  Easy, right?

I nominate the Dosimetry Techs to explain the "risks"

[rlbinc]

In 1940, it was visionary to consider harnessing fission for a useful purpose
In 1960, it was visionary to consider US astronauts on the Moon.

You're damn skippy we can get off oil in a decade or two. But we have to commit to it.
Whatever it takes. I'll tell you one thing it will take, is a massive investment in education.
Nobody is talking about that. It will be a main benefit of the energy independence movement.

The late (you knew I'd invoke his ghost) HG Rickover, warned us in the 70's that the decline in education was
the one of the country's greatest vulnerabilities. He thought his program was seeing the early indications
in the declines in NFQT scores and Math abilities observed in NPS pre-school phase.

I called that trend the Teachers Union effect - dumb the students down enough, and they'll always vote for 
the promise of a hand out - because their self sufficiency and confidence has been limited.

I gotta tell you. He was right.
The best thing a nuke can do right now is tutor Math and Science in the public school system.
Teach the teachers how to teach. Then I think we'll have a foundation to work from.

[wlrun3@aol.com]

   ..."You're damn skippy we can get off oil in a decade or two. But we have to commit to it.

      Whatever it takes. I'll tell you one thing it will take, is a massive investment in education.

      Nobody is talking about that. It will be a main benefit of the energy independence movement."

                                                  rlbinc

    ...hopefully, this site will serve as a platform...

    ...searches started at google consistently redirect to nukeworker...

    ...if you hadn't helped me i wouldn't know, as one of many examples, that four of the nineteen bwr model 4's are housed in mark II reactor containment buildings...




   

[withroaj]

So it's been a few months since this discussion died, and just about every avenue of investment has taken a healthy dump.  A major draw to many enlisted folk getting out of the Navy is the idea that the entire nuclear industry is about to retire, leaving thousands of open positions in the commercial world for bitter blue shirts to fill.

It has occurred to me that quite a few folks may have to roll their retirement dates to the right...  Is that the truth?

[Preciousblue1965]

With 401K's drying up like the Sahara what do you think?!?!?!

'cept me, my retirement is not built on 401K's,....

Who still has a 401K?  Last time I checked, I was down to a 200.5K. 

[Wydryd99]

I'd like to throw my .02 into this discussion.  But first off, i have the utmost respect for this forum and the discussions/info available here.

I'm a Navy Nuke and I'd like to ask one of the Civilian guys a question.  Specifically the one's who were talking smack (in a funny way) about our plants. 

What's the top speed of your plant?  Mine goes 30+ kts...



 

[Marlin]

What's the top speed of your plant?  Mine goes 30+ kts...

The big Zero...Zip and I think that's the best feature of the civilian plants for most ex Navy Nukes. It makes it easier to get home at the end of a work day.

[Preciousblue1965]

The big Zero...Zip and I think that's the best feature of the civilian plants for most ex Navy Nukes. It makes it easier to get home at the end of a work day.

For those of us that are fans of "That 70s Show"  I believe this remark should be followed by just one word.


"BURN"

[Wydryd99]

 

Well stated