Entry level pay after Navy

[Already Gone]

Which plants would be doing that?

Any one that doesn't pay very well.  Even the crappiest pay out here attracts Navy guys.

[JustinHEMI05]

Any one that doesn't pay very well.  Even the crappiest pay out here attracts Navy guys.

What do you consider crappy pay? Any pay > Navy pay = good pay to me. But, I don't think nearly doubling my navy pay is "crappy" espescially if I am "entry level." Then again, I could be missing something since like any nub, I wouldn't know I was missing it until it was too late.

Justin

[Already Gone]

Crappy is all relative dude.  One man's floor is another man's ceiling.  But, I see that you get my point.  Entry level is not something to be shunned.  It starts with good and gets better from there.

[JustinHEMI05]

Crappy is all relative dude.  One man's floor is another man's ceiling.  But, I see that you get my point.  Entry level is not something to be shunned.  It starts with good and gets better from there.

Fair enough. You probably think what I get is crappy LOL.

Justin

[number41]

BeerCourt, it's time to put your money where your mouth is.  What do YOU consider crappy for a guy getting out?  How much do YOU make?  I know those are some personal questions, but if you're not willing to justify your opinions, then maybe I should reconsider the weight I give your opinion.

[number41]

Marssim, maybe it is gauche, but that was kind of the point.  I certainly don't mean to offend anyone, and I really don't think BeerCourt is going to tell us all how much he makes.  However, I will point out that I simply came here to ask relevant information, and in typical internet fashion, was immediately ridiculed.  I would like to think that BeerCourt knows what he is talking about, but for all I know he's some 13 year old kid living in his mom's basement, too.   Maybe I overstepped some bounds by asking the question, but I really would like to know what he thinks is crappy.

[number41]

honeycomb,  I get what you mean about being off topic.  I guess I'm just a little oversensitive now that I'm looking for jobs in the real world and am actually having to experience rejection when it comes to getting what I want in a job.  Sounds like I have a lot of new lessons to learn about employment.  And BeerCourt, if you are still checking this thread, I still would be interested in what you think, and didn't mean to be offensive.  I'm typically a pretty good protagonist, and it seems you know a thing or two about pushing my buttons already.........................maybe a new rivalry brewing?

[cincinnatinuke]

So an E-5 at 6 years makes 2323.80 a month.  Sea Pay at 4 years is 300 a month.  Sub pay is 275 a month.  Norfolk BAH is 1232 a month.....I am assuming this sailor is married or has dependents.

Lets say insurance would cost him about 100 a paycheck, so 200 a month.  So lets just round up and call it 4500 a month.  I know BAH isnt taxable and insurance costs vary but this gives us about 26 bucks an hour or 54k a year.  Depending on how you look at this or who sees this number will determine the response.

Crappy is relative to the sailor getting out and to the position applied for.  I am sure a Sr RCT could bank 26 an hour, but he/she is pulling probably north of 400 hours of OT in a year, so that skews that number a but.  An NLO could make that too or a chem tech and a host of other people.

Why dont you start by telling yourself, privately, what its going to take to hire you.  Not just dollar signs but all factors.  Hold true to that number, assuming here, and you will likely exclude a lot of jobs you are qualified for.  The RCT, NLO, the chem tech can make some serious dough, but we/I have to work a metric butt ton of hours to do it.  But just because you exclude them doesnt mean I or someone else wont work them.

I think that is all BC is trying to convey.  The pot at the end of the rainbow doesnt have the same amount of commas and zeros for everyone.  It is still good money, and we are all pretty fortunate to say maybe 54k aint for me.  I think there is something better.

Lets face it, you could raise a family on that and probably be JUST AS HAPPY as you were in the Navy.  I guarantee it.

[Already Gone]

Precisely!
No pay is "crappy" if you can live well on it.  Anybody getting out of the USN should not be surprised if he does not immediately double his pay, but he is going to have to deal with only working 84 hours a week or less.  The extra time on his hands may drive him to drink.

Like I said, it is relative.  $22/hr plus bennies is royal in Arkansas, but $35/hour is not going to get you a lot of house in San Clemente.  However, (there is ALWAYS a however) if you are a single dude who lives to surf and isn't concerned with a high standard of living, that $35 is enough.

How much do I make?  More than I thought I ever would and less than I can find ways to spend.  I make more in two weeks than I made my first full year in the Navy (including BAQ ans BAS).  I make approximately what my efforts are worth.  Sometimes I make a lot less than I earn: sometimes I make more than I earn.

In the end, it makes no difference how many dollars one takes home.  What matters is the quality of the life that one lives.


"So an E-5 at 6 years makes 2323.80 a month.  Sea Pay at 4 years is 300 a month.  Sub pay is 275 a month.  Norfolk BAH is 1232 a month....."

Being in the same country as your kid when he learns to walk....PRICELESS!!

[JustinHEMI05]

honeycomb,  I get what you mean about being off topic.  I guess I'm just a little oversensitive now that I'm looking for jobs in the real world and am actually having to experience rejection when it comes to getting what I want in a job.  Sounds like I have a lot of new lessons to learn about employment.  And BeerCourt, if you are still checking this thread, I still would be interested in what you think, and didn't mean to be offensive.  I'm typically a pretty good protagonist, and it seems you know a thing or two about pushing my buttons already.........................maybe a new rivalry brewing?

Seth,

I am concerned with your second sentence. What exactly were you expecting in a job? Perhaps it is better left for PM at this point, but I think you might need to lower your expectations a bit (that sounds worse than I actually mean it). Here is the current NLO class at my plant (I know the break down because I taught their math and physics);

One RPI nuke engineering degree (you knew him)
2 Physics degrees
1 chemistry degree
2 ME degrees
And 1 EE degree.

There are a bunch of other non degreed people too.

The biggest thing to remember is, no one is waiting at the gate to hand you a 6 figure + job. You aren't going to get hired into higher than instant SRO/maintenance supervisor. No one is looking for an enlisted nuke getting out with an RPI degree to run the joint.

Justin

[Ops Nub]

would you consider 55K-65K good in SC for a fresh out of the navy Jr HP?

[Already Gone]

would you consider 55K-65K good in SC for a fresh out of the navy Jr HP?

I would consider that money good for ANY Jr. HP.  Most Jr.'s make around $16/ hr and work about 20 to 25 weeks a year.  They're lucky to pull in $40k.  If you are including per diem in this, wee need to talk.
If you are an ELT or RCSS, you should be a Senior HP.  Naturally, different plants classify their techs differently.
However, if this is a 'house' job, you aren't in the same boat with the regular "Junior" HP's.  THe money is good.  Enjoy it.

[number41]

All, thanks for the input.  I'm going to be frank here even though I probably shouldn't.  I basically am not willing to walk away from my current job without making a comparable take home pay.  I know the quality of life may be better/different in most jobs, but I have to quantify that somehow.  Since I won't know exactly what a new job is like until I work it awhile, the only factor I can have any control over is the pay portion.  Like has been said many times, the Navy will keep me if I can't find other work that I like.  You guys can figure out how much I make if you really want to, but ultimately it boils down to this (call it arrogant if you want, but that's not how I mean it), I am an experienced operator and leader, with 13 years of proven ability to learn and safely operate a Navy PWR, I am middle management at my current job, and I have taken the initiative to get a "good" B.S. in Nuclear Engineering.  I don't expect to start out as an Operations Manager, but I also don't expect to be treated as if I just fell off of the turnip truck simply because I haven't worked civilian power for a while.  If I can't start as an instant SRO, or a comparable job making ~ $72K a year, then I might as well stay where I am.  It seems that everybody here is not willing to talk about specifics when it comes to money, and I don't really see the point.  I'm a pragmatist.  If the company I interview with doesn't want to pay me, then I won't accept the position.  But at the same time I would like to know what "good" is for someone in my position.  It's not like I can take the info I receive here into an interview to try to force someone to pay me more than I'm worth.

[DDMurray]

number41,
I've read your post.  I retire a year from now (24 and 1/2 years) as an E-9.  I never intended to stay this long.  I almost got out twice.  I left my first boat that I hated and went to shore duty with the intention of finishing my degree and getting out at the nine year point.  I calculated my pay and allowances and figured I would have to make about $29.00 per hour to sustain the standard of living I was making at the time as an E-6 in the Orlando, FL area.  As luck would have it I made Chief and added three years to my commitment to get paid for CPO.  After three more years at sea as a Chief, I liked my job better; but decided to get out at my 12 year point.  I went to TAP.  They all looked at me like I was nuts, but I had enough of the family separartions and working for guys who thought they were more important than the Navy.  I got hired by Intel about 4 months from my EAOS, with a start date three weeks after my EAOS.  I did more calculations, Intel would be a big pay cut, but had great medical and other incentives that would make up for the lost hourly wages (We decided my wife would be stay at home mom until we were back on the mainland and my kids were in middle school).  After much soul searching I re-enlisted again thinking about the benefits of  a 20 year retirement and that about half of my remaining 8 years would be on shore duty.  While on shore duty I accepted orders to the SSN 23 which required an extra two years due to new construction.  This was fine with me because it allowed me to stay in until my kids graduated from high school and would get me stationed in Washington, a place I always dreamed of getting stationed at.  Out of the blue I made E-8 on the 8th try but could still get out at my 22 year point unless I could get shore duty in a place near my kids' college.  All of a sudden, I make E-9 and can't pass up the extra retirement so I stay in an extra 3 years (all on shore duty).  As it turned out I spent two days in Washington but got to stay in Groton where my wife had a decent job and I was reasonably close to my daughter's college.  Did I make the right decision? I don't dwell on it because I made a decision with the information I had at the time.
     I know an ETC who just retired and got hired at a plant near Rochester, NY for Constellation Energy (I think).  He's in training to be a trainer for operations.  He didn't get a degree.  He got hired the same time as an E-8 (Post-EDMC, 26 years + degree) and E-9 (Post-EDMC, 24 years, not sure about degree).  He got hired in the mid-seventies I think.  The other two were in low 80's based on their experience and degree.  After the first battery of exams, he's going to be put on a pay scale that will accelerate his raises to put him in the same ballpark as the other two because he's done very well compared to his more experienced peers.  Many people will tell you can easily make up the retirement differential if you get out now. I'm not qualified to answer that, but if you hate the Navy get out.  If you like the Navy, please stay in because we are starving for people who lead and get our ship's to sea with minimal "drama".  I didn't mean to tell you my life story, but I feel like I made some of the gut-wrenching decisions you're facing right now.  My apologies to the rest of the nukeworkers.  I don't want to tick you off becuase I will be asking for advice in the coming weeks and months.
   

[tr]

number41,

I have two comments that may be of use.

First, a lot of resumes are electronically processed, with the system looking for keywords - especially the keyworks listed in the job opening listing.  Keep this in mind as you write your resume.

Second, with a BS in engineering, and 13 years of experience you should be able to do well in the engineering area.  More than 72k sounds pretty reasonable. 

[JustinHEMI05]

I agree. 80s is definitely doable. People are probably hesitant to talk numbers because the numbers are different for everyone. I can tell you via email or pm all of the numbers I was offered since yours will probably be similar. I will say they were all >80. If you want to know specifics, email call or pm me.

Justin

[number41]

I give up.  I've tried to post a response twice in the last couple of minute, but to no avail.  Anyway, the gist of the scenario is this: 

subnukederek:  I appreciate your recruiting efforts!  I definitely am prepared to stay in if need be, but I don't love it anymore and am ready for a change.  I WILL stay if I feel that I need to, but I do not forsee that as a problem.

As far as my other comments have gone, I stick by my actions.  I'm not here to piss people off, but I have an agenda:  I am networking and I need information.  BeerCourt may be looking to catch me in a dark alley soon, but I really am trying to do the right thing.  I know it may be "gauche" to ask about money, and it may not be the best idea for me to look at someone else's resume.  But I am new at this.  Furthermore, I suspect that there are lots of other people out there that want to ask the questions that I ask, but do not for some reason.  Finally, I don't see what the big deal is.  I'm just asking for information.  I don't see why people are afraid to give honest answers to honest questions simply because it is a public forum.  If BeerCourt were to tell me that he thinks a "good" salary is $180K a year, it's not like I can go use that to strongarm an employer into paying me that amount.  I'm just facing obstacles and trying to figure out how to conquer them.  Anybody see a problem with that?

[number41]

Jason,
  I'm not here to demand answers.  I really am looking for help.  But if I'm honest, I can tell you that several people have confirmed that there is a definite group of civilians here that do a very good job of making new guys feel unwelcome and unqualified to get work in a civilian plant.  Maybe that is just perception, but you know what they say about perception.  Anyway, I understand that some of these guys may have been burned by ex-Navy nukes that have too good of an opinion of themselves and wash out of instant SRO classes, but that doesn't mean that when I am here to ask questions and get help that I should be minimalized because I don't have the same amount of experience as others.  Moreover, this attitude is one of the reasons I'm leaving the navy, and it smacks of insecurity.

[Kev3399]

As far as my other comments have gone, I stick by my actions.  I'm not here to piss people off, but I have an agenda:  I am networking and I need information.  BeerCourt may be looking to catch me in a dark alley soon, but I really am trying to do the right thing.  I know it may be "gauche" to ask about money, and it may not be the best idea for me to look at someone else's resume.  But I am new at this.  Furthermore, I suspect that there are lots of other people out there that want to ask the questions that I ask, but do not for some reason.  Finally, I don't see what the big deal is.  I'm just asking for information.  I don't see why people are afraid to give honest answers to honest questions simply because it is a public forum.  If BeerCourt were to tell me that he thinks a "good" salary is $180K a year, it's not like I can go use that to strongarm an employer into paying me that amount.  I'm just facing obstacles and trying to figure out how to conquer them.  Anybody see a problem with that?

I've been following this thread and it seems to have done some twisting and turning........

I commend you on getting your questions out there and answered, but....

Go out and interview and interview and interview some more. You'll get a good feel for the pay range you're looking at. There is a huge difference between pay at certain plants and location. Some stuff I never figured out.

Example:
A friend of mine at prototype interviewed at X Plant. Was given X ILT offer. 3 weeks later I interviewed for the same position and was offered the same ILT offer but 8K less. Both of us had identical naval careers and quals. Sub and Surface was the main difference. So why was my offer less??? Never figured it out. Never asked. Wasn't the ideal location for me anyway. I was just interviewing to interview. Expanding my options for the ultimate decision.

Moral of the story.......Go out and see what they're gonna give you. Then compile your data and make a decision. Its time to put the rubber on the road for your job search. Butting heads and posting on here is just gonna confuse you and you might end up reenlisting. 

[number41]

Kev,
 See?  That's what I'm getting at, and why I don't understand why people have a problem talking about money.  I'm not trying to crap in anybody's Wheaties here, but it is common that people looking for a job do not know what the position should really pay.  I know that location and duties, etc. play a large role.  But why did you get offered $8k less than your friend?  It's because the company thought they could offer you that amount and get you to take it.  That is exactly what I am trying to avoid.  I have no problem taking an acceptable salary, but I don't want to accept a job for $8k less than I should because I don't know any better.  Which, coincidentally goes back to what BeerCourt originally said regarding good pay.  Part of my argument is that there is a difference between good pay and good enough pay, and I'm not ashamed to ask what "good" pay is if it means that it will help me get paid what I am really worth!





Modified for language content.  Honeycomb

[Kev3399]

Kev,
 See?  That's what I'm getting at, and why I don't understand why people have a problem talking about money.  I'm not trying to crap in anybody's Wheaties here, but it is common that people looking for a job do not know what the position should really pay.  I know that location and duties, etc. play a large role.  But why did you get offered $8k less than your friend?  It's because the company thought they could offer you that amount and get you to take it.  That is exactly what I am trying to avoid.  I have no problem taking an acceptable salary, but I don't want to accept a job for $8k less than I should because I don't know any better.  Which, coincidentally goes back to what BeerCourt originally said regarding good pay.  Part of my argument is that there is a difference between good pay and good enough pay, and I'm not ashamed to ask what "good" pay is if it means that it will help me get paid what I am really worth!

Modified for language content.  Honeycomb

I follow you......but I never knew what the $$$ were until I had offer in hand. There is a huge range. Go interview and get the data black and white on paper. All these guys are going to do is step on you here when it comes to this topic.

I'm giving you the best advice I can.......Go find out. I was disapointed with one offer because I liked the location, but the pay wasn't there compared to other offers. I was skeptical too.....I had options. It was weird......No pay charts.....No COLA.....I have to pay state taxes!!!! I don't know which one is better!!!!!!!

I know where you are coming from.

Also....who ever said that this first job after the Navy will be your only job until you're old and wrinkled? You have options now. You're not tied to an uneven and biased paychart. Go interview and make the best decision for your family.

[subshooter]

Number 41,

A quick check of an E-7 retirement at twenty years is about $1800/month which is COLA protected from inflation for the rest of your life.  This equates to about $1.6 million over the next 40 years.  Hard to beat anywhere and only 7 years away for you.  Doing the RADCON math (and a lot of assumptions here for simplicity), this is over $200k of lifetime retirement income for each year you stay in the Navy.  Just a thought to consider.  However, if you are that unhappy with your present employment, perhaps you can get orders somewhere else or go ahead and separate. 

You seem to be a smart ambitious guy.  I am convinced that no matter what job you have, you will excel at it and your salary will reflect your value to the company.  Managers who interview you likely have interviewed many other people and have a keen eye for talent.  You will probably be offered a salary that is a reflection of your worth.  Go ahead and knock out some interviews and see what is out there.  Good luck.

Mark

[Already Gone]

Kev,
  See?  That's what I'm getting at, and why I don't understand why people have a problem talking about money.  I'm not trying to crap in anybody's Wheaties here, but it is common that people looking for a job do not know what the position should really pay.  I know that location and duties, etc. play a large role.  But why did you get offered $8k less than your friend?  It's because the company thought they could offer you that amount and get you to take it.  That is exactly what I am trying to avoid.  I have no problem taking an acceptable salary, but I don't want to accept a job for $8k less than I should because I don't know any better.  Which, coincidentally goes back to what BeerCourt originally said regarding good pay.  Part of my argument is that there is a difference between good pay and good enough pay, and I'm not ashamed to ask what "good" pay is if it means that it will help me get paid what I am really worth!
Modified for language content.  Honeycomb

I don't want to talk about money because there is such a wide spectrum that I can't possibly give you the right number.

Navy nukes get out with and without degrees.  They take jobs anywhere from folding laundry (this is not an exaggeration) to Control Room Operator, Shift Engineer, Instrument technician, ... etc.  Some live in sunny California, and some prefer Maine or New Hampshire

A BSNE from a "good school" will get you what you are seeking, but remember that the $72 k might be your goal, but you won't be able to live within 90 minutes of your job if that paycheck is coming from San Onofre.  You need to look at more than the raw numbers.  You won't be doing nearly as well with $90k at some places as you will with $60k in others.  When I was talking about "crappy" pay, I was not talking about raw dollars, but about the salary in relation to the local cost of living.
This is one thing that you MUST consider.  A lot of plants get their jobs filled because they are in a certain geographical location and they don't need to be competitive with $$$  San Onofre is one fine example.  Their compensation is inversely proportional to the cost of living because young, unattached, sun-loving people will work there just to live there.  Palo Verde is almost as bad.

Instead of ranking jobs by "who offered the most dollars" rank them by what it will buy.

Try this:  Make a chart of median home prices in the areas of the plants in column A (or you can pick a house that you think will be right for you and use the price of a comparable house in each market.  In column B insert the salary.  In column C the ratio of A to B.

If you have the time, figure the other costs of the area such as whether or not the state has an income tax, or compare property tax rates, also factor in the possibility that you may have to pay for private schools for your kids, the local price of gasoline ( very important if you are going to drive from Temecula to San Clemente and back five days a week or Goodyear to Arlington AZ)  In my neighborhood, property taxes can be more than you are paying for a mortgage in Florida, but in parts of Florida the wind damage insurance on a house can be almost a grand a month.

But hey, maybe you think that a certain climate is a good trade off for money.  Perhaps you want to be near the mountains, or the ocean, or your wife's family.

Really, don't sweat the money.  Find a job in a nice area where you want to live, ask if the pay will cover a decent living in that area, take the one that your gut tells you to take.  DO NOT spend a single minute of your precious life worrying over the possibility that they lowballed you by a couple of grand or that someone else got a slightly better deal.  That crap is totally unimportant and will not positively affect your life.  Let it go.

[Ops Nub]

I've been following this thread and it seems to have done some twisting and turning........

I commend you on getting your questions out there and answered, but....

Go out and interview and interview and interview some more. You'll get a good feel for the pay range you're looking at. There is a huge difference between pay at certain plants and location. Some stuff I never figured out.

Example:
A friend of mine at prototype interviewed at X Plant. Was given X ILT offer. 3 weeks later I interviewed for the same position and was offered the same ILT offer but 8K less. Both of us had identical naval careers and quals. Sub and Surface was the main difference. So why was my offer less??? Never figured it out. Never asked. Wasn't the ideal location for me anyway. I was just interviewing to interview. Expanding my options for the ultimate decision.

Moral of the story.......Go out and see what they're gonna give you. Then compile your data and make a decision. Its time to put the rubber on the road for your job search. Butting heads and posting on here is just gonna confuse you and you might end up reenlisting. 

I will never get so confused here that i would consider Re-enlisting... I have only been posting on nukeworker for about 3 weeks and am very happy with the variety of info all of you have to offer.  I was confident about getting out of the navy before, but that was based off of all those false rumors of the "100K" jobs that they just give away. Now after reading all the posts and doing my own research I have a real confidence of being able to get out of the navy and at least provide for my family comfortably, just not lavishly.

[ddklbl]

A quick check of an E-7 retirement at twenty years is about $1800/month which is COLA protected from inflation for the rest of your life. 

Even quicker and dirtier math...

Many civilian jobs will pay you the difference.  I'll give you an instant SRO scenario.  $1800/month is roughly $21000/year.  I would argue that starting salary in commercial nuclear power is more than E-7 pay at the 10 year mark, including the extra bennies (BAH, SDAP, etc...).  By starting salary, I am saying that that is in a training status.  Many companies offer graduated pay raises as you progress in licensing classes.  You will earn that $21000 difference and then some at the end of training.  So, at your 12 year point (10 navy and 2 commercial), you are making more than you would be as much as if you were starting at your 22 (20 Navy and 2 commercial) year mark.  Commercial salaries are "COLA" adjusted as well.  This doesn't even consider commercial retirement packages.  With a little discipline, a 401k, and other retirement savings options... It doesn't add up to stay in.  I've said for a long time, no one stays in the military for the money.  Patriots, yes.  Bankers, no.

As for 41's scenario, shifting the timeline to the right a little, I'd still argue that the numbers are in his favor.

Obviously, no one should use money as the ultimate sole decision maker.