Entry level pay after Navy

[Longhornfan]

(This was split from another thread. It really belongs under "Getting out". RT)



Thank you for this...I love a good laugh in the morning.

Sounds to me like you just don't like being told what to do...so don't worry too much, once you fail out of NPS (if you even make it that far...I have my doubts) and get sent back to the civilian world you won't have to listen to anyone anymore...er...scratch that, it is just as bad out here so sounds like you are s**t out of luck my friend.

I always get a kick though out of these young men who think they are so smart that they are going to do their 6 years in the Nuke field and then get out and make 80 to 100K......you guys kill me.  Hey...maybe standup comedy is for you!

Grow up...grow some nads...and tell your recruiter what things you can do and what things you have a problem making and why...I am sure if you are both adults you can work things out so that all the requirements are met.  You have a rude awakening coming your way my friend...good luck with that.

[Nuclear NASCAR]

I've edited your post for language, please keep an eye on it in the future.  Thanks in advance.

As far as making 80 to 100K after doing the 6 years that's not too far out of line if you do a little searching on the civilian field.

Most of all, Thanks for your service to our country.  It is appreciated. 

[Roll Tide]

I always get a kick though out of these young men who think they are so smart that they are going to do their 6 years in the Nuke field and then get out and make 80 to 100K......you guys kill me. 

Like the 6 year chiefs, it is rare. I certainly didn't fall directly into a position like that. But I did see a classmate at Turkey Point: he get out of the Navy at the 5.5 year point, started AUO class while on terminal leave. If he had completed the AUO class, he would have been making about $80K after 18 months on site (7 years after HS graduation). (He jumped the fence to Radcon, and made $80K anyway after 24 months on site.) Certainly not the norm, but if everything lines up just right...

But the EMCS is right in the fact that you will have to build up a tolerance. There are days you will have to be a "healthy mushroom". Pick your battles!

[M1Ark]

Thank you for this...I love a good laugh in the morning.

I always get a kick though out of these young men who think they are so smart that they are going to do their 6 years in the Nuke field and then get out and make 80 to 100K......you guys kill me.  Hey...maybe standup comedy is for you!

This is true.... what makes it so funny?

[Floydbob]

I got out after six years and now make over $100K.  The opportunities are there.

[Fermi2]

Thank you for this...I love a good laugh in the morning.



I always get a kick though out of these young men who think they are so smart that they are going to do their 6 years in the Nuke field and then get out and make 80 to 100K......you guys kill me.  Hey...maybe standup comedy is for you!

What's so funny about that? Lots of guys and gals are making over 80K by about their second year out after doing 6 years. And that first year they're not doing all that bad either.

Mike

[Rad Sponge]

I concur that it was not a far fetched idea to get out and make over 80K.

It most likely won't happen the first year (could happen though).

Get some quals under your belt, be useful, be motivated, be energetic, and the OT will be there for you.

I am assuming the 80K-100K does include the OT.

[Longhornfan]

I may be dead wrong (yes it has happened before) but unless I have missed an entire class of jobs made available for 6 to 8 year navy nukes getting out then my research over 10 years or so says the average salary you can expect (in and out of the nuke industry) is somewhere between 35K and 55K to start.  I do not count overtime in that because it is not guaranteed money.  I know there are exceptions to that but for most I would lay odds on being in that ballpark.  Enlighten me please to this plethora of 80 to 100K jobs out there because I know a LOT of ex nukes who would love to know about them and a few soon to be ex's as well.

[Roll Tide]

Like I said, it is like the 6 year chiefs (I saw quite a few Chiefs when I was in with only 1 hash-mark, but under 7 years is REALLY fast). Not counting OT is the way to go; otherwise you count on it. On the other hand, the OT built into the schedule is quite secure.

Starting salaries for AUO jobs are now in the 40-50K range, but within 2 years should be 55-70K straight time (depending on the utility and cost of living in that area). With a few people retiring at my current plant, there are now many $100K AUOs (OT included). There are a few EOOW qualified and / or degreed ex-Navy nukes walking into an SRO training class, making $80K salary to start (no OT paid). Within 3 years they will be just over $100K. Again, these are the exceptions and not the rule. I sure didn't do it that way (though I have made over $80K many of the years I have been in commercial nukes, and could have made it more times with extra OT).


I will have to start a new thread and sort through some of these posts, since they are irrelevant to the "dep bs recruiter" in the original post. Since I was involved in it, I can't complain too loud...

And if I haven't mentioned it to you specifically, thank you for your Sub service Sr. Chief.

[Rad Sponge]

I would say the higher starting pays are proportional to areas with higher costs of living so you have to compare like denominators when comparing job salaries across the country from one nuke plant to another.

You also have to factor in tangible relocation benefits (mine were quantified at 50,000), stock performance, bonus potential, etc.

You also have to compare and contrast all the pipelines from sea to private employment. There is the AUO/NLO path, the instant SRO path, chemistry path, HP, QA, IC, maint, etc.

Each path will garner a different rate based on demand, geographic/demographic, and other factors dripping down from the management bean counters.

My base was over 60K when I started as a chem tech, however I work in Maryland which is expensive. 60K goes further I'm sure in Bumbleville, IA, but I probably would have started at 40-50K there. When I took that crappy job with Tyco as an HP I was brought in at 58K in Missouri and that was salary, and they were a bunch of condecending monkey poops, but I digress.

My current company has performance based step increases within each pay grade and does annual cost of living adjustments, and performance based incentive awards. All in all my base has improved since starting.

I think it all boils down to the person what they make getting out of the Navy and the flexibility to move to where the jobs are and the motivation to do well once there.

[Longhornfan]

Thanks for the answers...I think we all are basically in agreement even if we don't really know it. 

I would say the typical 6 year nuke is...

1.  Not coming out with a degree.  I would hope and encourage them all to do so but the reality is there is so many things to keep you busy on ship that not many have the desire or the will power to put in that much extra time and effort.  Big Kudos to those who do.

2.  Not a CPO...I saw a few 7 or 8 year chiefs early on but with the splitting of the Nukes away from the Non-nuke rates I think that the majority of that went away.  There still may be a rare few but I don't remember seeing them before I retired.

3.  Not going to instant SRO.  The requirements I have seen around the country for instant SRO (and even these are rarely used it seems) is a degree (see note 1) or a Navy Senior or Master Chief qualified EOOW, EWS, or PPWO.

4.  Not qualified EOOW...most likely not even EWS though there are a lot of junior PO1s and even a PO2 or three out there who do.  EOOW quals is only available at prototype and usually that is a tour most take after they have re-enlisted at least once for it...so minimum 8 year then.

The reason I even care about this at all is I think we do an injustice to these young kids considering this field if we inflate the numbers to them...and I have seen the 80 to 100K starting pay numbers held out in front of a lot of kids...especially by their recruiters.  The experience and opportunities that exist for these kids is outstanding...by far the best the military has to offer in my opinion...but if we are not honest in telling them how hard and frustrating the job can be, how long they will be away from their families, and we over inflate their pay opportunities upon discharge then I think we breed unhappy and disgruntled sailors in the fleet and beyond.

just my 2 cents worth.

[Fermi2]

My belief is the only people qualified to really post in this thread are those who have worked in BOTH worlds.

To say you cannot count on OT is a misstatement as most utilities have at least 1 Refueling outage a year and the last I checked almost 45% of your hours worked are OT during that period. Also most sites are on 12 hour shifts. There's built in OT.

Put it this way, in 17 years in the commercial world I haven't seen too many NLOs not earning around 80K UNLESS they chose not to work OT, which again is their choice. In the Navy they don't have that option so I cannot think why any well qualified person would stay in after their 6 year point.

Mike

[rlbinc]

Dang skippy its realistic. And soon to be on the low side. People can make whatever they decide they need in this industry.

I am a contract SRO Instructor and an NRC Examination author. I actually see more money coming on in the instructional side because these utilities have gotten too lean and too mean with too old a workforce. All these mistakes in an era soon to see new plant construction.

Insiders have recently indicated to me that as soon as September 2007, we'll see South Texas pony up for ABWR construction. Imagine a new plant coming on in 2014. They need three Cold License Classes complete to start up. Those License Classes need to start in 2009. To build a simulator, an INPO accredited Training Program, and modify the KA Catalog to accommodate licensing operators on a new BWR Type - they're 2 years behind TODAY. This requires staff.

You'll see the grab starting in late summer, much of this workforce will be incumbent BWR SROs bought with tall six figure green money. That will create vacancies and rising salary demand at all US BWRs.

Stand by. You heard it here first.

[JustinHEMI05]

Thanks for the answers...I think we all are basically in agreement even if we don't really know it. 

I would say the typical 6 year nuke is...

1.  Not coming out with a degree.  I would hope and encourage them all to do so but the reality is there is so many things to keep you busy on ship that not many have the desire or the will power to put in that much extra time and effort.  Big Kudos to those who do.

2.  Not a CPO...I saw a few 7 or 8 year chiefs early on but with the splitting of the Nukes away from the Non-nuke rates I think that the majority of that went away.  There still may be a rare few but I don't remember seeing them before I retired.

3.  Not going to instant SRO.  The requirements I have seen around the country for instant SRO (and even these are rarely used it seems) is a degree (see note 1) or a Navy Senior or Master Chief qualified EOOW, EWS, or PPWO.

4.  Not qualified EOOW...most likely not even EWS though there are a lot of junior PO1s and even a PO2 or three out there who do.  EOOW quals is only available at prototype and usually that is a tour most take after they have re-enlisted at least once for it...so minimum 8 year then.

The reason I even care about this at all is I think we do an injustice to these young kids considering this field if we inflate the numbers to them...and I have seen the 80 to 100K starting pay numbers held out in front of a lot of kids...especially by their recruiters.  The experience and opportunities that exist for these kids is outstanding...by far the best the military has to offer in my opinion...but if we are not honest in telling them how hard and frustrating the job can be, how long they will be away from their families, and we over inflate their pay opportunities upon discharge then I think we breed unhappy and disgruntled sailors in the fleet and beyond.

just my 2 cents worth.

I think your research is just a little off. Recently, three coworkers NOT senior chiefs or master chiefs (E6s) but qualified EOOW walked into instant SRO classes. I am a 9 year E6 ELT EOOW with one instant SRO offer so far, interviewing for another, and one maintenance supervisor offer. You aren't the first upper level chief to say that those jobs are kept for you guys and above, which just isn't true. What I do agree with is that MOST 6 and outers won't walk into huge paying jobs off the bat, especially if they did nothing to further their career in that 6 years like qualify EWS. But I am not the expert here, I am just speaking from what I am seeing guys leaving here with.

Justin

[JustinHEMI05]

Oh I forgot to mention that none of the 3 E6 instant SROs had degrees. All three are currently working on them on their company's dime.

Justin

[Rad Sponge]

I don't think its false advertising to speak about these lucrative positions.

They are out there. Period.

I also think OT should be considered because I can't think of any civ nuke hourly job getting done with straight 40s.

Sure, don't count your chickens before they hatch, but come now.

However, I will stress to all you newbies out there with delusions of grandeur:

You better align your career so you are on shore duty before getting out and if that means doing 8, then so be it. Its pretty tough scoring a job while on a Westpac. Can it be done? Sure, anything is possible.

Then you have to consider that license classes start on a cycle, so timing is everything. You may be unemployed after getting out while awaiting HR reps to get back to you.

Also, from my experience, HR does not bring in new people near or during an outage because they are busy inprocessing contractors, so either get in early in the year or you'll be wating to late Spring depending on the outage schedule.

I'll let the operators elaborate on how liscense classes are scheduled.

So another facet to this story is that "Zero K is also realistic upon discharge".

You have to be deliberately planning your strategy from day 1.

[M1Ark]

I may be dead wrong (yes it has happened before) but unless I have missed an entire class of jobs made available for 6 to 8 year navy nukes getting out then my research over 10 years or so says the average salary you can expect (in and out of the nuke industry) is somewhere between 35K and 55K to start.  I do not count overtime in that because it is not guaranteed money.  I know there are exceptions to that but for most I would lay odds on being in that ballpark.  Enlighten me please to this plethora of 80 to 100K jobs out there because I know a LOT of ex nukes who would love to know about them and a few soon to be ex's as well.

My base pay in 1994 after getting out with 5 years and 10 months in was $40k.  I made $61k in 1994 as an NLO.

Base pay for an NLO today should be about $60-65k. 

[ChiefRocscooter]

Ok I jst retired after 23 and started as an NLO, my "base pay" is 54,000 and some change for basicallythe first year while I train and get qualed.  Note this will involve no over timeduring the first year. Once qualed the "base pay" will jump to about 62,000 and change, but again that is without overtime.  In reality once I start quals (next Jan) I will get overtime becasue of the rotating 12 schedule I will work or one week(4 days) will be 48 hrs and the next (3 days) 36, yes we only work 7 outof "10 work" days!!  This averages to (8*1.5= 12hrs+40+36= 88 hrs a week) so pay will be about 64000 without working any over time (any extra that is).  Now consider that every 10 weeks, because of rotation I will have 7 days off in a row (twice!!!!!) and mix in some 3 and 4 day offs amd I think you can see that maybe working a few extra days will not be so bad, and at about $500 (based on 1.5 time for 12) for a 12 hr extra day I will likely do a few here and there.  Of course this does not count outages where you work 3 on and 1 off for 4 to 8 weeks (based on outage length) so those months checkin at about 10K each.
All in all the 80-100K is realistic after you qualify NLO (about 1 to 1.5 year in my company) and you will work a "little" over time.  At my plant there are many operators who make in that range (one made 110,000 last year).  Of course there is always the potion of going Ro and SRO down the line and the money there is BETTER.

So your answer is YES!!!!!!!     

[jobsandwich]

In commercial nukes, everyone works overtime, not everyone gets paid for it! If you take a salary position up front you won't make 80-100k. It could take years. If you take an hourly position up front you will make 80-100k in 2 years or less. Most hourly nukes earn more money than their supervision. The private sector also doesn't care who you were in the military-unless you're an engineer-they consider you easily trained to meet their needs, that doesn't relate to extra money or prestige of which there is none (prestige that is) in nukes.

[jgpwest]

It really matters more where you are making 80-100K in relation to the cost of living.  If you make that in S. California you really aren't that well off.  Making 50-60K say at Beaver Valley in a low cost of living area is better than making 80K at Turkey Point a significantly higher cost of living area.  It is all relative to where you want to work.  Just something to think about.

[Roll Tide]

I would say the typical 6 year nuke is...

2.  Not a CPO...I saw a few 7 or 8 year chiefs early on but with the splitting of the Nukes away from the Non-nuke rates I think that the majority of that went away.  There still may be a rare few but I don't remember seeing them before I retired.


The reason I even care about this at all is I think we do an injustice to these young kids considering this field if we inflate the numbers to them...and I have seen the 80 to 100K starting pay numbers held out in front of a lot of kids...especially by their recruiters.  The experience and opportunities that exist for these kids is outstanding...by far the best the military has to offer in my opinion...but if we are not honest in telling them how hard and frustrating the job can be, how long they will be away from their families, and we over inflate their pay opportunities upon discharge then I think we breed unhappy and disgruntled sailors in the fleet and beyond.

just my 2 cents worth.

EOOW is much more important in the selections than E-8 or E-9. 6, 8, and 10 year Navy vets may even have an edge over a retired Sr. or Master Chief.

I think an entire command structure trying to downplay outside opportunities to the guys they are trying to get into a STAR or subsequent re-enlistment program is much more unfair than the discussion of $80K. Which do you see more? 

[Longhornfan]

Like I said I don't know all the specifics on opportunities.  The E-8/9 requirement came straight off of the FPL website recently though they do not have a current open posting for Shift Supervisor on it that I can link.  That is not the only site I have seen it on but I am sure that it all depends on the company.

I don't recall ever putting any pressure on anyone to re-enlist or not re-enlist during my time in the Navy and I always tried to give a balanced view of what was available....but I am sure there are many stories that differ from my own.

As for the state of affairs atm I can't say as I have been retired and working in the civilian industry (not nuclear) for almost 6 years and so don't have a lot of recent info to go on.  I  have been recently looking for a move back into the nuclear side so most of what I base my opinions on is from opportunities I have seen in my search and talking to various people during my travels....most recently at Turkey Point.

I will concede that after a year or two 80 to 100K is probobly the norm for commercial nuke plants.  Thank you all for the lessons.  See...old dogs still can learn new tricks sometimes. 

[M1Ark]

Like I said I don't know all the specifics on opportunities.  The E-8/9 requirement came straight off of the FPL website recently though they do not have a current open posting for Shift Supervisor on it that I can link.  That is not the only site I have seen it on but I am sure that it all depends on the company.

I don't recall ever putting any pressure on anyone to re-enlist or not re-enlist during my time in the Navy and I always tried to give a balanced view of what was available....but I am sure there are many stories that differ from my own.

As for the state of affairs atm I can't say as I have been retired and working in the civilian industry (not nuclear) for almost 6 years and so don't have a lot of recent info to go on.  I  have been recently looking for a move back into the nuclear side so most of what I base my opinions on is from opportunities I have seen in my search and talking to various people during my travels....most recently at Turkey Point.

I will concede that after a year or two 80 to 100K is probobly the norm for commercial nuke plants.  Thank you all for the lessons.  See...old dogs still can learn new tricks sometimes. 

I happen to know some specifics about FPL.  They state Retired Chiefs on their posting but that was created by HR folks that do not know what they are talking about.  The plants hire based on the resume and the individual and what you are quoting as fact is a boiler plate FPL ad. 

I've heard your rhetoric before and it sickens me.  The point we are making has been stated in a previous post.  A qualified nuke w/ 6 years in needs to start looking at developing his career with REAL experience.  Staying in the navy to get that coveted Chief, EOOW or Thomas Edison or Regents degree is BS and only serves to retard your real career on the outside. 

We have all said that in 1 to 2 years that young baby nuke will be making $80-100k.  If he got out at the 6 year point he'd be compared to another sailor w/ 8 years in looking to make Chief. 

Another 2 years and both would be at the 10 year point and the navy guy is looking to gain more quals for the coveted Senior Chief position and is making sure he is working towards his degree and EOOW quals.  The happier civilian guy is in RO license class looking to make 90-110k. 

Lets advance this timeline to their 14 year point.  The Navy guy is looking at LDO and or Master Chief opportunities and the Civilian guy is sitting in SRO license class and looking to knock down 130k plus. 

Let's advance to the 19 year point.  The navy guy is a Master Chief or LDO and looking on Monster.Com and various other websites and see's FPL is willing to hire him in as an SRO instant @~ 87500 starting and he is excited at the propect.  The civilian guy has BEEN an SRO for about 6 years and has just been offered a job as Assistant Operations Manager @ ~ 150k and is interviewing this E-8/E-9/LDO and wondering if he is anything like the blowhards he used to work with in the canoe club.

Bottom line EMCS.  Who is doing these kids a dis-service?  Being a hot-runner in the navy past your 6 year point is futile.  Be a hot-runner where you can actually get somewhere.

[Len61]

Ahmen Brother!

[Rad Sponge]

Ahmen Brother!

I tend to side with MIARK on this one.

I was caught in the middle at my nine year point with an injury and a choice between staying in an struggling to advance after catching up on quals lapsed due to med hold or take a chance and get out.

I got out and today I received my first civilian bonus and there was no paperwork requiring me to promise to be a loyal employee for 6 more years.

However, let's not get into a khaki vs. 6 and out flame war. If it hadn't been for my injury I'd be some sort of khaki right now, no doubt. I would have continued my service for the joys I found in the Navy which was a combination of money, pride, duty, honor, and midrats (corn dogs are a blessing).

You are taking a risk in or out, but hey, what's the point without risk?